talk of secession

A state, or a group of states, has every right to attempt to leave the United States and for their own nation, whether by resolution or, if they're stupid enough, by force.

The other states, however, acting as the United States, have every right to use all means necessary to enforce preservation of the union, up to and including use of force.

I've always loved the arguments that some have used to try to claim that secession is legal, but a response to secession, i.e., moving to enforce the union, is somehow the most horrid and illegal thing since Judas sold Jesus out for an egg salad sandwich and a New Coke.


I really think that when stuff like this comes up, maybe 5% of the people in a state say "Wow! It's about time!", another 5% say "This is a horrible idea!" and the remaining 90% say "Holy crap, we actually elected this 'tard?"
 
I think we are too quick to call out something as radical as secession before we exercise fully the rights we do have... those being:
1. Voting
2. Petitioning our congressmen/congresswomen.

I suspect less than half of conservative thinking registered voters actually voted last Fall. I can't cite any specific statistics but most of what I've read puts the figure around 48%.
 
IMHO _ talk of secession usually comes from a social conservative agenda wanting for the good old days (which stunk for a lot of folks outside of this group and their halcyon fantasies). Oh, only if certain folk knew their place and we all had guns. They are stamping and hissing because our form of government and legislation hasn't gone their way. Wah, wah!

I remember the so-called loyalty views when folks were told: America, love it or leave it! Probably by the same ilk that want secession. So take your own advice. Save your money - and buy an island or raise Atlantis.

I have no use for those who want revolution or secession because they feel they cannot be convincing in the normal give and take of the political process. Other groups have managed to convince the country of their position and through amendments, legislation and cultural change of the legitimacy and value of their views.

Pragmatically, a separate new state would be an economic disaster. Get ready to live on the land. Dumb idea.
 
I think talk of secession is a waste of air and/or bandwidth. And ya cant have secession without firing squads either

WildandwiththatofftofindandimportantzombiethreadAlaska ™
 
Texas talking secession? All I saw was a Texas Governor who has not been entirely popular in his own party facing a tough primary election against a more moderate Republican. The Governor has nowhere to go but further right if he wants new votes. He has absolutely zero intention of secession.
 
Texas talking secession? All I saw was a Texas Governor who has not been entirely popular in his own party facing a tough primary election against a more moderate Republican. The Governor has nowhere to go but further right if he wants new votes. He has absolutely zero intention of secession.
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And after all the big talk about secession, he has the gall to ask the feds $$$ to battle Swine Flu... :D
 
The polls in TX are solidly against secession if you consider the entire state. There is support in the most conservative wing of some of the GOP. Perry is probably trying to get them to turn out for them, thus he panders.

A friend of mine was talking about secession in TX and I told him the demographics are clearly against the idea of the return of the South type of secession, esp. with our Hispanic population. He said maybe the Hispanics would join in.

And I told him, put his Anglo tushy on the bus back to Iowa if he is lucky.

Such silliness. :D
 
OK everyone CHILL!!!!!!!!!!

Let me say this and maybe we can all agree.

It is very unlikely any state including my own (TEXAS) is going to go through and attempt secession for a number of reasons.

The point of all this posturing is to gain attention to the fact the Fed has stepped so far over the bounds of the constitution and forcibly imposed it’s will upon the states that some states such as Montana, Texas soon the be Oklahoma and others want to be heard and the Fed to acknowledged their states rights as states.

We can go on for days like this with each other and each one of us have a valid point.
The real point of all this secession talk is to gain media attention and to hopefully awaken the sheeple of their state to the fact they are being unjustly treated by the Fed Govm’t.

If these states stand their ground and force these issues into federal court there is more ink and face time in the media. The majority of main stream media is bias but when these type of issues end up in the public eye, the media has only limited control and manipulation.

Now some of you are going to disagree with that last statement but hold on.

I firmly believe that the vast majority of Americans deep with in their heart and soul believe in the principles behind the constitution and KNOW their liberties are in jeopardy.

The problem is no one is willing to speak out openly, publicly for fear of being branded a nut job.
With states taking the lead and speaking out, “WE THE PEOPLE” can now come out of our closets and say “hey, I agree and you Mr. Federal Government need to get back in line or through our power as THE PEOPLE will remove you and replace you with leaders more in line with our interests and prosperity at heart.

People are people as long as they fear ridicule they will hunker down and mumble under their breath so they fit in with everyone else.

When the state stands up and makes these types of bold statements then the people no longer feel afraid and / or branded as a nut case because the STATE is a large group of people and they are part of the STATE.

OK, got my fire suite on, lets go!!! LOL!!!

P.S. many of you have seen some of my post that are "Angry" that's because I don't live in a closet and speak my mind and let my alligator mouth over run my humming bird ass! Why, because I do care and sometime just get plain unadulterated mad.

OK, fire proof gloves back on.
 
It is an attention getter. I'm not sure how many posters here are aware of it, but a part of Minnesota threatened to leave the union and join Canada. "What?" you say. Yup. It was an attention gathering plea.

The little piece of land up in the "tip" of northern Minnesota, is called the northwest angle. It's there because of a surveying mistake, but no one made a fuss over the mistake, so there it is. It's the only state west of the Great Leaks (except the far Northwest of Washington) which doesn't have a "straight" border with Canada. But I digress.

The only way you can drive to the piece of land called the Northwest Angle is to go through Canada because Lake of the Woods cuts off the NWA from the rest of Minnesota. So, when Americans drove to the NWA to fish on Lake of the Woods, they had to come back through Canada which has different fish limits than does Minnesota. Lake of the Woods is an international boundaries lake. You can fish for Walleyes in the American side in the tip of Minnesota, but then you have to drive through Canada to get back to the US (assuming you didn't go by boat up to the NWA). The Canadians were nailing people with having over their limit of fish, and this was hurting the resorts up there. They petitioned to have the Feds negotiate a solution with Canada, but the Feds were dragging their feet. So the governing bodies in the NWA petitioned the Feds to let them join Canada. I'm not sure what ever happened as the news has died down now. I know they didn't join Canada.

By the way, to keep this firearms related, if you hunt ducks, geese, deer, or Bear up in the NWA, you're subject to Canadian laws when you try to drive back to the US with your game.
 
madmo44mag said:
With states taking the lead and speaking out, “WE THE PEOPLE” can now come out of our closets and say “hey, I agree and you Mr. Federal Government need to get back in line or through our power as THE PEOPLE will remove you and replace you with leaders more in line with our interests and prosperity at heart.
Click to expand...

Here's some novel ideas. VOTE! Nobody can call you a nut job because your vote is secret. ORGANIZE! Join the NRA and any local firearms association. I have personally seen the power of the Tennessee Firearms Association turn back gun legislation. Maybe they will call you a nut but you'll be in good company.

Our system works folks, use it. A lot of others have and they got what they wanted and are getting stronger. We can too.

Sermon over.:D
 
If your post seems to be missing, it's because I've just gone through and deleted all irrelevent or off topic posts or responses to those off topic posts.

Stick to the topic at hand - the lawful means of leaving (seceeding) the Union.
 
sewerman said:
[W]asn't the basis of the government founded on each state having full sovereignty[?]
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Emphatically, No.

It was, from the start, shared sovereignty. Could the States treat with foreign nations? No. Could they declare war? No. Could they set their own weights and measures? No. Could they employ their own armies or navies? No.

Those things alone are proof that the States were not sovereign. Those sovereign powers were ceded to the central government.
 
The issue of whether or not states could secede without the consent of the rest of the union was settled in 1865.

If membership in the union were so fluid what would stop congress from revoking statehood or kicking a state out of the union? A majority vote in congress is required to admit a state why noit a majority vote to remove a state?
 
I don't think the current 10th Amendment movement is about secession (*), so much as it is about reclaiming some degree of independence from a bloated and overbearing Federal government.

So, here's a question. Say, Montana (just as an example) rejects the authority of the BATFE to some extent, and allows the manufacture of weapons in their state that are not regulated by the Feds. How well will that really work out, and for how long?

What happens when a Montana-only gun is used in a crime in New York? Do the Feds conduct raids? At what point is the line drawn in the sand, and if it's crossed, what is the state prepared to do? Will we have 20 repeats of Waco, or will the Feds back down? At what point do states recall their Congressmen from Washinton?

In either case, what are the long-term consequences?

At the very least, this whole phenomenon (what is it, 36 states now?) certainly makes a strong statement to the Federal government, and one I hope they take a lesson from. I just don't see it spiraling into full-blown secession, which would be a logistical nightmare.

Of course, my home state gleefully signed such a resolution with one hand, while holding out the other for stimulus funds.

(*) OK, maybe New Hampshire. Their resolution didn't mince many words :eek:
 
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