Talk Me Out of: 35 Whelen

My vote is for the .35 Whelen. I have three rifles so chambered although two now live in the safe. My go to rifle is a custom Mauser .35 Whelen had made up with a 1 in 14" twist. I almost passed on the gun because it wasn't a 1 in 12" twist but it was so pretty, fit me so well that I said I'll gamble on that twist and the devil take the hindmost. That rifle has been on six elk hunts since I bought it and has put down six elk, either DRT or so incapacitated that they could not get up and try to run off. Those elk were shot at ranges from 75 yards to 350 yards. The trajectory is about the same as a 30-06 at 2700 FPS, a load I used for a long time so am familiar with.

I worked up a handload for that rifle using Remington brass, Winchester WLR primers, 60.4 gr. of Re15 under the 225 gr. Barnes TSX bullet for 2710 FPS. It's a very accurate load but I strongly suggest one start at least two grains less and work up. It's fine in my Mauser but will lock up the bolt on my Remington M700 Classic. That load will penetrate an elk from exhaust pipe tp to fuel intake without any problem I haven't recover one of those bullets yet and based on past history probably never will. As long as I stick with that TSX bullet, I see no need for anything heavier.

I don't think the recoil is especially brutal. Lots of times recoil hurts because the rifle doesn't fit the shooter all that well. My M700 and Ruger M77 kick a bit harder than the Mauser but probably because they're a bit lighter in weight.

If I were to have to live with just one rifle the rest of my days, it would be that .35 Whelen Mauser, no questions asked.
Paul B.
 
Isn't that why Townsend Whelen invented the .35 Whelen in the first place?
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I was under the impression that the 35 Whelen was invented to approximate 375 H&H energy in a non-belted cartridge.
 
I shot a lot of hogs and deer with a 350 Rem Mag...and not much difference in performance between that and the Whelen. I was using a Ruger and just liked the idea of the shorter action. It shot good groups and performed very well.
 
Based on the rifles that you have, the 35 Whelen would be a very different kettle of fish indeed. There is really nothing to hunt in the NE that cannot be handily killed by 6.5x55, 7mm-08, or 7.62x39 except moose. While 6.5x55 has killed many moose in Scando-land, their moose are much smaller than ours. Also, if you were hunting big bear (as opposed to the typical sub 300 lbs New England bear), the Whelen would be justified.

I have a 30-06 Dimension barrel that I have contemplated both 338-06 and 35 Whelen for. But the reality is that there is nothing that either of those will do that a 200 - 220 grs 30-06 wont do. When Howe cooked up the 35 Whelen, powders and bullets were such that this probably wasn't the case. But with modern powders and bullets and modern rifle actions, the sectional density of a 220 grs 30 cal bullet almost certainly makes up for the additional 30 grs that can be had in the 35 Whelen.

If you really want a substantially more powerful medium bore rifle, the 375 H&H cannot be beat. There is nothing in NA that cannot be adequately taken by the 375 H&H and there are beautiful rifles to be had in this chambering.

Since you are in the Northeast, the 35 Remington should also bear examination. It's not as if you need 200 yards plus reach. Few bear and deer killed in the NE are shot at much more than 100 yards, and the majority are killed at less. The venerable 35 Rem is no powerhouse and remains 150 yard proposition really, but in a handy Marlin 336 lever gun, it is a most excellent cartridge and rifle set up for NE conditions. With your 6.5x55 and 7mm-08, you have long range covered. the 35 Rem might be a more useful addition to your stable.
 
The 35 Whelen is overkill for most anything but the great bears. It kicks like a mule. Trajectory is that of a rock. Having said that, I have 3 of them.
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The OP is in New York state, and for harvesting deer in upstate NY even the 30-06 is overkill. :rolleyes: Deer are not that hard to kill, even though lots of guys have much fun every season blowing holes through them with the big African cartridges like the .458 Win Mag and the .404 Jeffery. :eek:

The .35 Whelen is a venerable and iconic cartridge, often called the 'poor man's magnum,' and it will kill the Big Stuff dead right now, including the big bruins of Alaska. It exhibits less felt-recoil than some of the hyper velocity 30- and 33-bore magnums (e.g, .300 Weatherby and 338Win Mag). Arguably the Whelen's bullet-selection is more problematic than those, and you'd certainly have to reload for it if you wanted a stash of economical 'practice' ammo.

One interesting platform for the .35 Whelen is the M1 Garand - whether in full-size trim or as chopped down to 'carbine'-length (16.25") in the form of Shuff's Mini-G.

Deer-camp Fuddleys and other traditionalists are oblivious, but the fact is many folks actually hunt with their Garands, at least in states where it's legal to use a semi-auto. Deer, hogs, moose, caribou, and bear have all fallen to the M1, typically as chambered in '06, but you can find .308 and .35 Whelen variants in the woods as well. Some of this info has been posted up on YouTube.

Something to think about, depending on where the OP actually intends to hunt ... Not just the cartridge, but the platform.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=izVvykKZlbc#fauxfullscreen

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ1WtDghxbg

From the CMP Forum:

I've been killing Elk since 2008 with my 35-06 Garand. They were all one shot dead. No need for using the bayonet. Load 4895 in LC brass under a 250 grain Hornady .358 bullet.

Just Another Old Doggy, Don

http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL749/2760087/5531371/70856110.jpg
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Certainly way overkill for the deer we have down here. However, I'd be willing to bet a steak dinner that between MS and LA, more .35 Whelen ammo is shot at game every year than any 20 other states combined.
 
I'm with Bamaranger

When I was considering a medium bore rifle, (wanted to rebarrel a Savage 110) I gave a great deal of thought to .338-06 v. the .35 Whelen. At the time, maybe 15 yrs ago, I determined from my very casual research that there was a wider range of projectiles (especially premium slugs) available to the reloader in .338 as opposed to .35.
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I did have a 700 30-06 LH re-barreled to .338-06 in the late 80s. I put it in a Boyd's stock recently and the recoil was cut in half. I push a 200 Hornady at 2810 from 22".
 
There is no "magic cartridge"
There are factors to sort through before you choose one.
Species,range,trajectory,bullet availability,and other variables.

I think Wyosmith and Scorch said it pretty well.

I shot 250 gr boat tails out of my Whelen. Speer Hot-Cor,I believe. About 2600 fps.(Long ago,from memory,and I had no chrono.So,grain of salt warning)

Roughly the trajectory of a 308,easily good for 300 yd hunting ranges.

No velocity extremes to challenge bullet performance,or blow up meat.

The cartridge has a long history of doing the job.

IMO,the warnings about recoil are over stated. IMO,larger bore,heavier bullet cartridges at moderate velocity tend to let you ride a big push rather than whacking you with a Bruce Lee Hi-vel punch.


If your rifle fits,you have adequate eye relief,You keep the rifle firmly into your shoulder,yet be more like a willow than an oak,its a shootable rifle.


IMO, this gun stuff is a place where you are free to "Follow Your Bliss". YOU figure out what it is you want,and you don't have to justify your preference.

You will get advice "Get a 30-06,or a 300 Win Mag,or a 338 Wn,or a 375 H+H . But you know what YOU prefer. Its like picking a dog.

I'm not going to try to talk you out of a 35 Whelen.

One heads up. In my experience,just punching the expander spindle of your 35 Whelen reloading die set through the neck of 30-06 brass....well...it works,sort of. You can make brass to reload.

But one side or another of the neck brass will yield first.The neck does not uniformly stretch around the expander.With the stretch being localized,that side of the neck will thin.

And because the spindle is not rigid,it will deflect.The resut is eccentric neck and shoulder geometry.

There s a ton of bad information written by people who don't know what they are talking about regarding blowing the necks out using Cream of Wheat and Bullseye. (Up front,you use NO BULLET and start with roughly 10% of a normal powder charge..like 5 gr of Bullseye. I think 7 gr is what gave good results for me. And not corn meal or anything else. Cream of Wheat..

PM me if you want more. I'm not interested n the usual arguments.)

I got good,uniform,concentric necks and shoulders.


A true "forming die set" will work,too. See Redding or RCBS. A bit spendy.
 
One heads up. In my experience,just punching the expander spindle of your 35 Whelen reloading die set through the neck of 30-06 brass....well...it works,sort of. You can make brass to reload.

But one side or another of the neck brass will yield first.The neck does not uniformly stretch around the expander.With the stretch being localized,that side of the neck will thin.
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Thanks for the heads up on this. Good info!
 
try and get your hands on a 350 remington mag. much less recoil. I use to own a 358 and I believe you should be fine with that as well! I would just choose the correct bullet for the game I'm going after.
 
I use to own a 358 and I believe you should be fine with that as well! I would just choose the correct bullet for the game I'm going after.
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I actually used to have a 358 Win too and loved it. Great cartridge, but it just felt like overkill for the hunting I was doing (deer) and I let it go. It certainly put them down quick though!! Regarding using the 358 Win for bigger game, I think I'd prefer a bit more velocity; not for killing, just for trajectory's sake.

Regarding the 350 Rem Mag, I do like that cartridge, but I don't know if I'd be able to get one in stainless. I'd like this gun to be all stainless, which I don't think is out there in 350 Rem Mag.
 
Regarding the 350 Rem Mag, I do like that cartridge, but I don't know if I'd be able to get one in stainless. I'd like this gun to be all stainless, which I don't think is out there in 350 Rem Mag.
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This is what you call 'going in circles' ballistically ...

The whole point of the 350RM was to take the ballistics of .35 Whelen from a large 24" rifle, and stuff them into a short-action carbine with an 18" barrel.

The key to it was the shorter, lighter platform - Remington's 600/660 series introduced in the 1960s. Some of the pics I've seen even show these rifles wearing forward-mounted scopes ('Scout Rifle'-style), but I believe they were actually fixed-power (3x) IER pistol scopes.

Regardless, the point was to have a very powerful, quick-handling, short-range 'brush'/'bush'/'woods' carbine capable of nailing big weighty animals hard with heavy 250gn .35-cal bullets.

Arguably it would be (or would've been) the perfect camp or cabin gun for dealing with Alaskan bears (along with moose, elk, etc.).

Again, the cartridge is overkill for deer-sized game, although I wouldn't hesitate to use it on the big hogs you find in Texas and Florida.

Unfortunately, both Remy's cartridge and the 18" carbine were ahead of their time. Obligatory pic attached ..
 

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Unless where you're going to hunt prohibits autoloaders, if I was going to get something chambered in .35 Whelen today, I'd seriously consider having one built off a donor M1 Garand. Install a Schuster adjustable gas plug to tune the gas system to the ammo, and the M1's semi-auto will dampen felt recoil. Run it iron-sights only or with an optic.

I'd also dress it in tight-fitting laminated wood which is about as weather- and water-resistant as you can get without going to a synthetic stock.

Robar's laminated M1 set-up attached ...
 

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Robar's laminated M1 set-up attached ...
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While that is a very cool concept, it doesn't fit in my mental category of what a hunting rifle looks like and wouldn't really be ideal for what I'm planning. I'm not moving to the Yukon, just heading out west for a few hunting trips targeting elk/bison, etc.

I'll probably lean towards an MRC/Winchester or Sako style bolt action build once the time comes. I really love the CZ 550 action, but again, gotta be available in stainless.
 
Once again,follow your bliss,do it your way.

I'm going to put a bug in your ear to consider.

While Remington did make 35 Whelen a factory round,good luck ever finding ammo or brass.

As its not likely to be available as a stainless factory rifle,so you are looking at a custom build. That costs money.

Where I am going with this,the 35 Whelen was regarded as "The poor man's 375 H+H"

Buying a stainless bolt action and having your Whelen custom built,potentially along with case forming dies,would make me a poorer man.

Maybe consider all the factors that make the Whelen have a "gut appeal" (to me,anyway) are present in a 375 H+H

You can buy a factory stainless 375 H+H off the shelf probably cheaper than having a custom rifle built.

Maybe find someone who has a 375 H+H who will let you fire a few rounds.

I neck the 458 down to 375 for my 375 Dunlop. Its roughly equiv to the H+H. I think its a hoot to shoot.

When your 6.5 x 55 or 7-08 or whatever other sensible hunting rifle seems like "Not enough"

Why mess around.
 
Maybe consider all the factors that make the Whelen have a "gut appeal" (to me,anyway) are present in a 375 H+H

Why mess around.
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You make a compelling argument. I originally discarded the 375 H&H as overkill... but it could certainly take care of "everything bigger than a deer". That's for sure.

I also don't know if I want to sign up for 35+ ft/lbs of recoil... that's major recoil!! Having never shot anything that hot, I have no idea what that feels like. In regards to borrowing one... I live in the boonies and most folks around here scoff at shooting anything other than an '06 or a shotgun...
 
While that is a very cool concept, it doesn't fit in my mental category of what a hunting rifle looks like and wouldn't really be ideal for what I'm planning. I'm not moving to the Yukon, just heading out west for a few hunting trips targeting elk/bison, etc.
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Not a problem, ... it's just a question of 'thinking outside the box,' as 'appearances' can be deceiving.

I know several folks who hunt with their M1s, including two who make forays each year to a remote deer camp site up in Michigan's U.P. They call the place 'little Alaska.'

Another guy hunts a densely forested area where he owns property using his 30-06 Mini-G, a true 'carbine' M1. He relates that 'average shots' from the various tree stands around his property rarely exceed 100-yds and are frequently less. Same when he bow hunts.

Good luck on your hunt(s). :)

I really love the CZ 550 action, but again, gotta be available in stainless.
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Again, thinking outside the box, ... if you can't find the stainless version of the CZ 550 you want, have you considered getting the blue-steel version of the rifle and then sending it to Robar for their NP3 metal treatment?

https://robarguns.com/custom-weapons/precision-rifles/the-robar-precision-hunter/

Robar can NP3-treat any part or parts on any firearm, but possibly you might not have enough time to get it done before your hunt.

The NP3 coating offers better corrosion-resistance than stainless, and the chemical bonding process imbues the treated metal with an inherent lubricity that essentially eliminates the need to oil/grease any reciprocating parts, e.g., the bolt & receiver rails.

Just a suggestion. :cool:
 
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