Talk Me Out of: 35 Whelen

J

jackstrawIII

New member
Hey guys, I know most of you are probably sick of caliber discussions, but I'm a hopeless sucker for these sorts of threads... and hopefully I can suck you in.

Here's the scoop. I have recently (after years of slow and steady pressure) gotten my wife into hunting. She's been shooting with me, and just agreed that we could take a hunting trip together every other year (the off year, she gets to pick the vacation). Seems fair enough.

That said, I'm finally going to get the chance to hunt something other than deer and need/want an appropriate gun. I used to own like 20+ hunting rifles, but have dramatically reduced my collection recently. I now have:

CZ 550 Lux in 6.5x55
Browning X Bolt in 7mm08
CZ 527 Carbine in 7.62x39

All three are great deer guns, that fill difference niches for us in the type of hunting that we do here in the Northeast.

So, here's the question. I want to grab a "bigger" gun for when we go hunt some bigger game. It's my goal to eventually get us in front of some elk, bison, etc and I think that the ol' 35 Whelen should do the job nicely, and still be down-load-able to 358 Win levels to pop a deer here or there if I wanted.

Any reasons why I shouldn't pick the Whelen? Not much it wouldn't do with a 225 grain Accubond or 250 grain Partition by my reckoning... but as I've never killed an elk, bison, etc... I'd love to hear/see some ideas, feedback, stories, and photos from those who have.

Thanks!
 
I'll chime in. I've got a Whelen (T/C Encore). It hits like the hammer of Thor if you use full power loads (hits on both ends - shooter and animal). For deer, I've been using 200gr Hornady Superformance which was what it shot most accurately (tried 3 or 4 different commercial flavors). I happen to have a box of Federal Trophy Bear Claw 225gr which I consider to be overkill for white tails. But, I would put that caliber/bullet combination up against any animal in N. America though if I wanted to hunt bigger game.

The Whelen is a handloaders dream - meaning that it is one of the calibers that is expensive to buy at retail but is easy to reload. You can load it up to "really heavy" levels or you can load it down to mouse-fart level using .357 pistol bullets. As soon as my current supply of commercial ammo is exhausted, I want to start working up some 180gr loads for it for Primitive Weapons season (I know - calling a Whelen a primitive weapon is an oxymoron but that's what you get in MS).

Downside is finding a rifle (other than an Encore) chambered in it that won't break the bank. There weren't a lot produced and good used Whelens tend to go for a premium.

Good luck.
 
I had one for a while. Tried 338-06 too. With hotter loads and bullets over 200 gr recoil is equal to or more than 300 WM.


Not much it wouldn't do with a 225 grain Accubond or 250 grain Partition by my reckoning.
Click to expand...

True enough. But a 200-220 gr Accubond or Partition out of a 30-06 will penetrate DEEPER in those bigger game animals, shoot flatter, and recoil less. And with a 95% probability of being more accurate.

You can shoot those same bullet weights in 300 WM as well, to about the same speeds and the same recoil. They will penetrate deeper just like when fired from a 30-06 and because of the better BC's will hit much harder as ranges increase.

It's not that 35 Whelen doesn't work, it does. And trajectory is flat enough to use at reasonable ranges. It just doesn't do anything a 30-06 won't do, except kick harder. And for the same recoil 300 WM is the better option for me.

But if someone just has to scratch that itch you could do worse. Some guys just like to use something different from the masses. I went through that stage with several rifles.

The one advantage 35 Whelen has over the others is the ability to shoot 357 mag pistol bullets in very light loads which offers some versatility.
 
True enough. But a 200-220 gr Accubond or Partition out of a 30-06 will penetrate DEEPER in those bigger game animals, shoot flatter, and recoil less. And with a 95% probability of being more accurate
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about that. From everything I've been able to gather, the twist rate in most 30-06 rifles isn't fast enough for those heavy bullets. Isn't that why Townsend Whelen invented the .35 Whelen in the first place?
 
I have made many 338-06s, 35 Whelens and about 20 9.3X62s. So far I have not had a single customer complain about a one of them.

Here in Wyoming, of those 3, going back about 20 years ago the 35 Whelen was in 1st place and the 338/06 in 2nd place for re-barrel jobs and custom builds and I can say back then the 9.3X62 was virtually unknown.
Today the 338/06 and 35 Whelen are about tied, and the 9.3 is in first place for popularity among those 3. All work very well on game the size of elk and larger.

Bullet weight between the 338/06 and the 35 Whelen are about the same, and the 338 will out-run the 35 in many guns for some reason.

The 9.3X62 can be loaded with 236 grain bullets if you get them from Norma, but the "light" American bullet is 250 grain, and the weights go up to 300 in American made, and up to 320 in Australian made.

In the last 3 years I have converted existing rifles or made custom rifles in 9.3X62 19 times for Wyoming customers. That is more 9.3s then all the 338-06s and 35 Whelens combined in the last 15 years.

And one old shell that is making a bit of a local comeback around central Wyoming. That is the 9.3X57 Mauser. A very easy conversion to make on any 8X57 Mauser because you simply install a barrel and it's done, and with the number of KAR length 8X57s around the old 9.3X57 has a few hunters attention.

Basically it's about like a 358 Winchester, but with a slightly larger and heavier bullet. I have 2 of them, and they fire a 270 grain bullet at 2200 FPS or a 250gr at 2350.

Anyway, all are good shells and all are a lot of fun to own and shoot, and they will all put game on the ground very well.
 
one more note here:
To answer the quote.. But a 200-220 gr Accubond or Partition out of a 30-06 will penetrate DEEPER in those bigger game animals, shoot flatter, and recoil less.

Yes and no. When you compare Bonded or Partition bullets in fairness you must look at similar Sectional Densities of different calibers, so the scale is pretty close and then compare them to the same construction of the other caliber.
So in other words a 200 grain 30 cal Partition in comparison to a 250 grain 35 cal Partition.
Comparing a partition to a cup and core is not a valid comparison.


And with a 95% probability of being more accurate----------------

The 30-06 leaves little to be desired, but I can't say it's any more or less accurate then the 35 in the guns I have re-barreled or made. The accuracy of the 2 rounds depends on the quality of the barrel and the ammo.
 
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Wyo, thanks for weighing in. Always appreciate your posts.

I had a 338-06 built a handful of years ago, but I was unable to make it shoot accurately. I went with a budget barrel company... lesson learned.

Figuring on going with the Whelen this time around. No particular reason, except that I’ve always had a soft spot for 35 cals. Really like the 180 grain bullets (made for the 35 Rem) for deer when the mood strikes.
 
35 Whelen is a good cartridge, good enough for any game animal on the American continents. That said, there is not a lot of factory ammo available, and those tend to be 200 gr bullets unless you look hard for the 235s or 250s. Seems like a lot of people don't like getting thumped by their rifles (cue the 6.5 Creedmore fan boys), especially when very feeble cartridges can slay Bambi just fine. For elk, 300 Win Mag rules the roost, but there is plenty of room for the less common cartridges. I have hunted with 7X57 for years, although dabbling with 7mm Rem Mag, 8mm Rem Mag, 338 Win Mag, 375 H&H, and a few really odd oes. All of them kick too hard, but they are great to hunt with in spite of that. So, if you want a 35 Whelen, get one, scratch that itch. It might stick, it might not. But if you don't try it, you will never know, and it will bug you forever. So I say do it!
 
The 35 Whelen is overkill for most anything but the great bears. It kicks like a mule. Trajectory is that of a rock.
Having said that, I have 3 of them.
 
I really like the 35 Whelen, and the desire to get another rifle.
Butttt.....
You don't need one.
7mm-08 will do the job just fine on elk out to about 400 yards. And it can be used on bison.
I say that as bison are more a run away animal, not typically classified as dangerous game.
And you can usually close the distance somewhat on one, allowing more energy from your rifle.

If you are set on a 35 Whelen, my suggestion would be to get a used Savage 110, or 111. Then call E.R. Shaw Barrels and have them send you one.
 
I like AI so have 35 WhelenAI got 1/14 twist Krieger barrel @ 24". I had it long throated and using 225gr AB but it shoot 225gr TSX. I use it on bear tag or bull elk tag but I have other rifles so don't hunt with it every year.

I had seater made chamber reamer then bushing dies made. It does have some recoil but hunting here Co, I'm pretty layer and shooting range I have past recoil pad.
 
The 6.5 x 55 will do anything a .35 Whelen(.35 Whelen ammo will not be found in small places. Maybe not in Walmart either.) will do. The Whelen is just a necked up .30-06, but read this. https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.35+Whelen.html
"...I want..." Is different. "I want one." is a reason. Still wouldn't be a Whelen for me, but If I had the money for a Buffler hunt(each one runs about 2 grand to 8 grand or more, up here. They give a horrendous amount of meat too. A Buffler can run 2,000 pounds live weight. Tastes great.) it'd be a single shot .45-70 or a .30-06/.308.
 
So... a 6.5x55 will do anything a 35 Whelen can do huh? Not sure I buy that. The Whelen has 100 grains more mass, almost .5” more frontal area, and way more speed (energy). I’m just not sure all that can be dismissed as insignificant.
 
I had a .35 Whelen, but the action that I used for it turned out to be a mistake. I'm working toward finishing another.

It does everything you need it to.

The only real negative I can give you has already been mentioned: Recoil is less pleasant than .30-06.
I don't find it to be a "harder" recoiling cartridge, or 'brutal', or 'offensive', just more 'snappy' than the usual '06-based cartridges ... a bit like .358 Win is much 'snappier' than .308 Win.

I really miss having a .35 Whelen available. I never did get to fill a tag with mine before it malfunctioned in a manner that caused me to lose all faith in that action. I look forward to pulling the trigger on the next one (full custom, on a commercial Mauser action; rather than slapping a cheap barrel on a cheap action).
 
bullets

When I was considering a medium bore rifle, (wanted to rebarrel a Savage 110) I gave a great deal of thought to .338-06 v. the .35 Whelen. At the time, maybe 15 yrs ago, I determined from my very casual research that there was a wider range of projectiles (especially premium slugs) available to the reloader in .338 as opposed to .35.

Eventually, like most of my pipe dreams, the urge faded and I never pursued it further.

Were I in big bear country with game on the ground, or fresh meat in camp, I'd find a Whelen or a .338-06 much more comforting than a Swede.
 
K. Bell

K. Bell is reported to have shot elephant with both the 6.5 Mannlicher and the 7x57 Mauser using heavy for caliber FMJ bullets. I have also read an account where a wildlife ranger culling elephants used a 7.62x54R Dragunov recovered from communist guerrillas because he could obtain true AP bullets in that caliber. Their shots were likely very close, at the melon sized brain of the animal. The trick would be knowing where that brain was and how to best reach it through the massive skull, and those men could draw on years of experience and shooting.

Nobody recommends those combos for sport hunting of jumbo today, and I think it is illegal in most African nations.....there is a minimum caliber restriction. Somewhat similarly, nobody seriously recommends .22 lr as a primary defensive handgun caliber, though a .22 lr to the brain will kill an attacker plenty dead. The old adage of "bring enough gun" still applies, though somewhat amended through the years.

Back on topic, the OP wants more gun than the Swede for bigger game, and the Whelen and the .338-06 is indeed more gun. The drive by comment about the 6.5 Swede being the equal of the Whelen I label as trolling.
 
"I'm not sure about that. From everything I've been able to gather, the twist rate in most 30-06 rifles isn't fast enough for those heavy bullets. Isn't that why Townsend Whelen invented the .35 Whelen in the first place?"

Most domestic and foreign rifles chambered to the 30-036 have a 1 in 10" twist which is just fine. The FN Brownings may have a 1 in 12" and so do the earlier Husqvarnas.
Paul B.
 
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