Talk me into the 40

Stopping cars with hand guns? Only if your on the door and shoot through to the driver.
I have a tactical sport CZ in .40. Even with atomic level loads (155gr full tilt) I'm not sure I could stop a neon. With clean smooth .308 power, no sweat. These threads are almost as good (or bad) as bear threads.
 
If I really thought I'd have need to shoot through barriers, I'd carry one of my 357 SIG's with the 125 Gold Dot or HST.

Otherwise, the 180 grain HST is like a boss in the 40 caliber.

They say most shootings involve no more than three shots so capacity may or may not be an issue. I have two SIG p226's: one Legion in 9mm and a Nitron model in 40/357 SIG.

They are both great pistols and I love all three calibers really for there uses. The 40/357 uses 13 round magazines and the 9mm uses 18 round magazines. that is five more rounds per magazine with the 9mm.

That is a lot. I carry a spare mag always so with the 9mm I get 10 extra rounds over the 40/357 in the same size gun.
 
Pretty hard to talk you into a 40 when you bought one, then converted it to 9mm...

If you have your own place to shoot, go by a body shop in your area and see if you can pick up a few crashed doors from them and go shoot at them with your different ammunition. I can save you the suspense and tell you that 9 and 40 give pretty much the same results. The difference between them is greater with different bullet constructions than due to caliber/power.
 
I wouldn't recommend .40 to stop a vehicular threat... being most people are looking at a concealed carry role. If you are L/E, caliber will be usually chosen by the agency. If you shoot .40 well, carry .40. If you shoot 9mm well, carry 9mm. Carry what you'll likely carry when you are walking out of the house... and not left at home.

I like .40, being it is a common pistol caliber. I like .45 and 9mm just the same, and have guns in each of them. The agency I'm currently looking into issues .40, so I'm likely going to have to get used to it... which I have been doing lately (as well as the platform they use). In certain guns, .40 shoots very comfortably... like a USP Compact.

It is kind of like that Sprite commercial that has been on... I won't tell you to shoot .40, but I'll ask you, "do you want a .40?"
 
1. I do like that you mentioned that at least PART of the reason for the switch back to 9mm is cost saving

2. I agree with some of the others, I don't love the idea of stopping a car related threat with a hand gun

3. My personal preference for these two calibers is if it's a full size gun I'll take the .40 but if it's a pocket pistol I'd take the 9mm for comfort reasons.

At the end of the day both rounds will get most jobs done pretty well. That's why I own one of each :D
 
The OP seems to have disappeared on this one but those saying you aren't going to disable a car with a handgun are assuming that is what he meant in the first post.

He asked about barrier penetration on vehicle and specifically mentioned the doors and glass.

I think the intent is to take out the driver to end the threat, not disable the vehicle with a handgun.
 
O4L said:
The OP seems to have disappeared on this one but those saying you aren't going to disable a car with a handgun are assuming that is what he meant in the first post.

He asked about barrier penetration on vehicle and specifically mentioned the doors and glass.

I think the intent is to take out the driver to end the threat, not disable the vehicle with a handgun.
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I agree, I think that's what he meant, I wouldn't even try disabling the car with most rifles, The engine block is really the only section of a normal passenger vehicle you can trust for cover rather then concealment.

9mm will go thru the sheet metal on a card door fairly easily.. in fact you can go thru both sides with the car empty, I don't think a 40 would preform any better in that regard.

problem with shooting thru slated glass is the bullet can often deflect.. you might have the driver lined up but that does not mean that's where the bullets going once it hits the glass.. side windows might be a different story.

I don't know if a faster bullet would preform better on the windshield, I think boarder patrol adopted .357sig and they would have to deal with rogue cars more often then most LE.. But even so I personally wouldn't trade in my 9mm with car threats in mind.

On 2nd thought maybe faster is not the way to go on the windshield, a slower heavy bullet might actually work better.. more mass possibly resistant to deflection?
hmm 230gr 45acp?
 
.40 vs. other cals

The same technology that has , according to the Bureau, advanced the 9mm back into acceptability, applies to the .40SW (and the .45 acp and others). Our largest, local PD (100 sworn?) has made the jump back to 9mm.....but I suspect the reason is cost and simplicity of ordering ammo. Officers can still carry a variety of handguns so chambered, so commonality on the street is not one of the reasons for the swap to all 9mm locally.

I believe, simply put, the .40 is indeed more gun than the 9mm, with comparable loadings. Further, I think the issue of mag capacity is largely overplayed. The 3-4 extra cartridges one picks up per mag with a 9mm don't really figure into real street shootings. The threat has changed some, but not that much. If one perceives they need more ammo with a .40, add another magazine to your carry package.
 
Model12Win said:
The 10 miker miker has an even better track record for disabling vehicles and neutralizing tangos. The 10 turns cover into concealment better than any Tactical battle cartridge for handguns.
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I don't disagree, but the 10mm is a bigger gun than what comes in the 9mm and .40 S&W's do. There's also the question of why do you need a 10mm for concealed carry? If you're expecting on a certain day that you are going to need to shoot somebody, like say, if you're a cop in the SWAT unit, okay, I can see the 10mm as a good choice, but if you're Joe Schmoe and just want to stop an allahu akabar type from cutting your head off on a Facebook live stream after running over people's heads with a truck, I think the 9mm or the .40 S&W is a better choice.

The decision of whether to get a .40 or a 9mm is subjective based on what the subject carrying the gun wants and needs. Personally, I think the .40 is great because even in lower weight projectiles for the cartridge like 135 or 155 grain, they're still more heavier and have more energy than any 9mm +P load, but don't have an insanely higher amount of recoil.

You get a bit more for not a lot more recoil.

EDIT: And you also can quickly convert a .40 into a 9mm with simply a barrel and maybe an extractor and ejector. Converting from 9 to .40 could be impossible and if it is possible, require a whole new slide, which is about the same price as a whole new gun.
 
Nlight1 said:
I prefer 10mm myself
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It's a good cartridge.

While some people don't see it being effective, if you may meet four legged threats, definitely a very good option when loaded right. Revolvers work, but 10mm gives you similar power, with faster reloads and usually more capacity.
 
In recent terrorist attack where vehicles and often large vehicles have been used to mow down pedestrians, it would be a mistake to shoot. There are innocent human victims all around the vehicle and even plastered against the mowing machine. Defensive gun shots would probably strike more innocent victims than terrorist. Rounds fired would also glance off glass and metal with uncontrollable ricochets into the masses.

Attempts at being the savior or a hero could place you in very legal trouble.
 
The difference between 9mm and 40S&W is that the 40 will fire heavier and larger bullets at the same velocity as the 9mm. It is very simply a ballistically superior cartridge. The 40 is a better cartridge for self defense or for out in the woods.
Any time you throw heavier bullets at higher velocities you are going to have more recoil but the 40 has less recoil than a lot of other guns and unless you are using it in a compact pistol it is easily controllable.
 
How about this viewpoint. If you have to be convinced by others to buy a .40 then what's the point? I buy what I want, not what someone convinces me to buy.

If you want a .40, for whatever reason you can justify, then go buy one. If you don't want one bad enough to justify buying it on your own then stay with you 9mm.
 
lamarw said:
In recent terrorist attack where vehicles and often large vehicles have been used to mow down pedestrians, it would be a mistake to shoot. There are innocent human victims all around the vehicle and even plastered against the mowing machine. Defensive gun shots would probably strike more innocent victims than terrorist. Rounds fired would also glance off glass and metal with uncontrollable ricochets into the masses.

Attempts at being the savior or a hero could place you in very legal trouble.
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Naturally you wouldn't shoot through other people to your target :) I think the real danger though is what happens to the vehicle after it and/or driver is shot. By shooting the driver and/or vehicle, you could make the situation worse and it might be hard to prove that you made the situation better.
 
How about this viewpoint. If you have to be convinced by others to buy a .40 then what's the point? I buy what I want, not what someone convinces me to buy.

If you want a .40, for whatever reason you can justify, then go buy one. If you don't want one bad enough to justify buying it on your own then stay with you 9mm.
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^we need more of this kind of thinking.
 
Not saying one would intentionally shoot through people. There was testimony the other day in a police shooting about the time to make the decision to shoot to the time for a round to strike. I do not recall the exact time, but it seemed the officer took over a second. The expert witness seemed to consider this as plausible. This is not bullet travel time but rather human reaction time to a threat. In this type of situation a lot can change in a fraction of a second. This was my intended point.
 
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