Tactic in a Mass Shooting Situation

Good thread!!! Lots of things to think about.
My personal process is:

#1 dont be in places that attract mass shooters. Of course cant just quit going places. I still go to movies and have been to a holiday light show.
So I am not locking my family away. But safety is a factor that must be looked at. I.E. Go to movies at less popular theaters and days, go to the Holiday presentation on off days. It should go with out saying. If your not there when the shooting starts. You cant get shot.

#2 When we do go places as a family. We have a talk about what to do if.
I Note exits, best places to take cover. Ect

#3 My fire arm is my last line of defense. If I am presenting it. I have screwed up rules #1 and 2.

It is sad that our world has returned to this. Notice I said returned?? Human history has way more examples of having to prepare for danger than it has being able to run around like a lemming.
Just remember you dont need to be faster than the bad guy. Just be faster than the rest of the lemmings behind you.
 
#1 dont be in places that attract mass shooters. Of course cant just quit going places. I still go to movies and have been to a holiday light show.
So I am not locking my family away. But safety is a factor that must be looked at. I.E. Go to movies at less popular theaters and days, go to the Holiday presentation on off days. It should go with out saying. If your not there when the shooting starts. You cant get shot.
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You can do that. However the odds of being in such a situation are lower than being hit by lightning. Indeed some of those might increase your risk for other events. Less popular theaters may increase your chances for "normal" crime, etc.
 
The way I see it, in a Mass shooting situation, not everyone is taking fire at the same time. If you're not the one taking fire, then you have a chance to either take cover, run, or kill the SOB.

Your choice will need to be different depending on the situation and the resources available. If I am carrying a NAA 22 mag, then I would probably react differently then If I have a 5 inch 1911 or Glock 22. Is there really someplace to run and will I have time to get there. Is there really cover available that might give me a tactical edge, or is he so close, that the safest thing to do is stand on my 2 feet and put a bullet in his chest or head or groin as quickly as possible followed by as many finishers as I can get in.

Sure no one knows what they might do in any given emergency, but I know that I would just as soon get killed as live with myself if had the means to stop the carnage early instead of running off and letting others die, when I could have stopped it instead of just saving my own ass. But if you don't have the means to fight, then you might as well run and hide with the rest of the sheep.
 
#1 dont be in places that attract mass shooters.
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More mass shootings happen at home than out at your stereotypical locations. Chances are that if you are in a mass shooting, it will be by someone you know, and quite likely a relative or partner.

The only way to avoid being in a mass shooting is to never be in an area with 4 or more potential victims that can be shot in a singular event with no rest period between the shootings.

#3 My fire arm is my last line of defense. If I am presenting it. I have screwed up rules #1 and 2.
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Since you are not omniscient and not omnipotent, there is no reason to have a "blame the victim" mentality. Things can go wrong outside of your purview. That is reality.
 
I dont know anything about skydiving but I can tell you that if I trained as a skydiver and had the occasion to jump from an airplane, I would pull the ripcord based on my training. Maybe I pull it a little early or maybe I pull it a little late but I would pull it.. How do I know this? I know it simply because the alternative is not acceptable. Self defense can be said to be a preservation response and that is one of the most powerful emotions known to man.
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Thats differint you have two choices pull the cord or doint, you will pull the cord because if you doint you will die, so you realy have no choice if you want to live. In a mass shooting situation there are numerous things and possible ways a persion could react. So until you are in that situation you might think how you would react but you caint know. For somewone to act in a certain way would take intense training like delta force navy seals etc, and even then its not guaranteed the way somewone will react, a few days at the range woint cut it.
 
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For somewone to act in a certain way would take intense training like delta force navy seals etc,
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The Air Force Security Police airman in the Fairchild AFB shooting stopped an active shooter with a pistol from over 70 yards. I can tell you for a FACT that AF SPs don't train like Delta.

The lady at New Life Church in Colorado stopped the Shooter. Her background was a few years as a police officer. "Beat cops" do not train like Delta.

The school employee in Pearl Mississippi stopped the shooter. School employees are not generally Navy Seals as a side job.

An old man stopped a criminal from killing a police officer by taking a 150+ yard shot with a revolver!

Defending yourself with a handgun does not take Tier 1 operator skills and training. No doubt, training can and does improve performance, but simply dismissing anyone without several years of intense training is an uneducated and unsupported opinion.
 
Just noticed this topic.

Would a highly-trained LEO etc or infantry combat veteran first seek cover, then try to keep low while approaching the flanks, if Unable to sneak to the attacker's 6 o'clock blindspots?
The noise alone inside a regular building would be stunning and frankly, partly disabling, would it not? It's reported that for a few seconds untrained people never believe that bad things are real.

The shooting range is the only place where I would normally be mentally prepared for such deafening sounds very close.
 
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Acoustics are going to vary by situation.

In a shoot house, I was RSO for a guy running an 8in barrel AR with a muzzle brake. Even with double ear protection, the blast was LOUD and the shockwave was almost nausea inducing. That was from 3-4ft away.
If you were as little as 15 feet away, it was much better.
 
The advice on action shooting sports, like IDPA is an excellent way to hone shooting skills, with the pistol you carry as a CCW defensive pistol.

My everyday carry is a Glock19 4th gen pistol. I shoot it well. TruGlo sights.

Most likely you will find me with my Wife, always. So any use in a defensive nature will require she be safe, first and foremost.

There is a degree of planning, simple things, I always go to my Wifes side of the vehicle, to help her in, and out.

I cringe when I watch young men press the vehicle unlock button, then get into the drivers door, and leave their female companion, to find their own way around the SUV, out of their sight for 10 or 12 seconds!
Plus the shoes worn by Woman, tend to not be designed for Jeep manipulation.

Not part of the discussion in an active shooter thread? It certainly is! It is the first level of care. We went out with our friends down the Street last night for supper, we do it every second Sunday, where possible.

My Buddy drives, he does not drink, we three do! Two small glasses of Merlot, the House wine, over an hour of eating, and chatting.
We always take the same seats, same table, book this prior to going out.

This puts me facing the door, my back to a wall. Being doing this for 10 years. George carries a wee 9mm, in a Sneaky Pete holster, I like lots of rounds, why? Seems like a good idea.

I was born in a Pub, just outside of Liverpool UK. Lots of fighting from 15 YOA and on, 5 years as a Bouncer in Night Clubs in the City. Got stabbed twice.

This was in the early 60s, no tee shirts and radios, black suits, steel toe caps, and other objects, not guns.

Now in the land of the free "Florida!" 16 rounds of 147g Win Ranger. And a 17 round spare magazine.

Freezing in that environment, or drinking when working, begets a broken nose very early in life. And mine is still straight!

If it boils down to being attacked whilst out and about? I will fight. Mainly to keep my Wife safe, but even as an old Guy, I liked it! A 4lb trigger is not to hard to press. Watch your fellow citizens, watch your 6.
 
75 to 125 yd stops with a semi-auto pistol in the heat of a mass-murder assault rifle situation? I think the odds of winning the powerball jackpot are higher--even if you are a trained shooter.
 
Unfortunately or fortunately, this defeatist statement may not be true.

After San Bernadino and Paris, trained shooters have been testing their long range pistol abilities and find they can hit a person sized target.

Or you can hide under the table and wait.

Also, folks consistently hit 1 foot targets at 20 to 35 yards with speed in Steel Challenge. Expand the distance 3 times to 105 yards and a three foot target - that's close to man sized. Can't be done!! Oh, yeah! ;)
 
It's just as easy to say what one would do, might do, or can't possibly do in the face of such an attack, and extend that to everyone else. Everything is a matter of chance, luck, joss, fate, proximity, what have you.

The only true thing anyone can say is that if they are armed they have the opportunity of returning fire.
 
However, a continuing set of folks saying that no matter what, resistance is futile with a handgun is not productive.

Of course, you might succeed or fail. What else is new.

So, do we go with:

Who dares wins
Chance favors the prepared mind

or die in the creme brulee?
 
The Air Force Security Police airman in the Fairchild AFB shooting stopped an active shooter with a pistol from over 70 yards. I can tell you for a FACT that AF SPs don't train like Delta.

The lady at New Life Church in Colorado stopped the Shooter. Her background was a few years as a police officer. "Beat cops" do not train like Delta.

The school employee in Pearl Mississippi stopped the shooter. School employees are not generally Navy Seals as a side job.

An old man stopped a criminal from killing a police officer by taking a 150+ yard shot with a revolver!

Defending yourself with a handgun does not take Tier 1 operator skills and training. No doubt, training can and does improve performance, but simply dismissing anyone without several years of intense training is an uneducated and unsupported opinion.
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I didint say that you need a high level of training to defend yourself. I said you need a high level of training to have some idea how somewone migh react in that type of situation, two different things.
 
Deleted a post. Here's why: the person who posted it either does not know, or does not care, what the law says as it applies to "finishing off" a downed, possibly unconscious attacker -- one who is no longer a threat to any reasonable person.

For those who don't know it: that's a bad plan. Just ask Jerome Erslund.

For those who do know it and don't care: take your foolish ideas elsewhere, because they are not welcome here.

For those who haven't thought about it: anything you post anywhere on the web is discoverable evidence and it speaks to your mindset. Don't post that crap here because none of the moderators want to be subpoena'd on your behalf, and don't post it elsewhere unless you really want to spend a few years locked up in a tiny cage.

Finally: if while sitting in your own study at home with your feet kicked back while you surf the web, you know you would be unable to control your behavior under the influence of a strong emotion, you probably should think through your decision to own and carry a deadly weapon.

pax
 
I said you need a high level of training to have some idea how somewone migh react in that type of situation, two different things.
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You mean you need to be a psychiatrist to know how someone will react, or do you mean if an individual is well trained it is a good predictor to how that individual will react?
 
To me, responding to a situation is up to law enforcement. I have a pretty good idea of what I am going to do if caught in an active shooter situation. I am going to engage, the fastest way to make me and mine safe is to remove the threat.

I am a retired LEO/firearms trainer and a competitive shooter. I carry the same gun that I compete with - Glock 31C. I have been trained to deal with these situations and have been shot at more times than I care to count. I carry 2 extra mags and a 40 shield as a BUG with an extra mag.
 
An old man stopped a criminal from killing a police officer by taking a 150+ yard shot with a revolver!
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Sorry ramius, but you are noting some information incorrectly. That incident happened here in Texas and Vic Stacy, a lifelong shooter and hunter made some fine shots and helped save the responding officer, but for him to have made a 150 yard shot, he would have to have been outside of the trailer park in which he was located as the trailer park isn't that big. The shot was 169 feet. That is good shooting, but it isn't 150 yards.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=497248&highlight=vic+stacy

You are right in that you don't have to train like Delta, but every one of the cases you mentioned were where the folks were trained or already very skilled. Mark Wilson in Tyler apparently injured an active shooter before the shooter killed Wilson. Wilson didn't train like Delta, but had been a gun range owner and firearms instructor. Joseph Robert Wilcox responded to the 'revolution' in the Walmart, going after a gunman who was part of killing 2 police officers in Cici's. He was killed by the gunman's wife. No known training reported for Wilcox, just a need to do right.
 
The Air Force Security Police airman in the Fairchild AFB shooting stopped an active shooter with a pistol from over 70 yards. I can tell you for a FACT that AF SPs don't train like Delta.
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His name is Andy Brown, and he is a nice guy. Got to meet him a few years back in a Massad Ayoob class, where he was one of the students and the featured speaker on Thursday night.

While AF SPs "don't train like Delta," Andy Brown did in fact both train and practice -- a lot -- before he saved all those lives during the Fairchild AFB shooting. The shot he took, from a kneeling position at slightly more than 70 yards, drilled the attacker right between the eyes. It was one of (three or four?) shots that he fired; one of the other shots hit the assailant in the arm or shoulder. That shot was even more amazing when you realize he was a bicycle officer who rode his bike quite a distance to get to the event. Out of breath and well behind the curve, he kneeled down in the middle of the street to get steadier and to reduce himself as a target, then did what he needed to do.

He also used a gun he had literally never fired before, since the gun he trusted and that was normally issued to him at the start of his shift was in the shop for maintenance, and he was therefore using another pool weapon.

But he was well-practiced with the type, since he had a nearly identical one of his own at home, and since -- on his own time and with his own dime -- he regularly took classes and practiced what he learned. He sought out good training, took his training seriously, and worked hard to increase his skill level by regular, serious practice.

Which, oddly enough, is all that anyone suggests an ordinary citizen should do, if that citizen is of the mindset to save other people's lives in a mass shooting event.

pax
 
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