Tacoma Mall CCW guy speaks
- Thread starter riverkeeper
- Start date
As a fellow CCW'er in a neighboring state, I am very sorry this guy got hurt. For those of us who have never been in battle - you never know how you will react under fire.
But from a MMQB perspective - talking to the gunman after he had already opened fire and possibly hurt / killed several people, was not the brightest thing to do. Leave that to the professional negotiators. Either shoot the BG or duck and run. No in-between.
Anything else gets you shot.
But from a MMQB perspective - talking to the gunman after he had already opened fire and possibly hurt / killed several people, was not the brightest thing to do. Leave that to the professional negotiators. Either shoot the BG or duck and run. No in-between.
Anything else gets you shot.
XavierBreath
New member
Here's another take on it.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/250101_wounded29.html
Tuesday, November 29, 2005
Mall shooting victim is glad he held his fire
More might have been hit, he says
By SAM SKOLNIK
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER
In one of his first interviews since the shooting at the Tacoma Mall on Nov. 20, victim Brendan McKown said Monday he feared that if he had taken a shot at the man firing into the crowds, he might have only caused other shoppers to get struck by bullets.
When the shooting started, McKown, a mall store assistant manager with a license to carry a firearm, said he didn't know who was firing at whom. So he made a snap decision not to stand up and fire back. "It could be three policemen firing at one guy, and I could come out and be another target," he said.
Mall shooting victim Brendan McKown answers reporters' questions with humor from his hospital bed at Tacoma General on Monday.
So he yelled at the man to drop his gun -- a move that only caused the gunman to pivot and fire at McKown, striking him, he said, five or six times. The shots blew him back several feet, he said.
"When I changed into another position, I see just the most surreal sight," McKown said from his bed at Tacoma General Hospital in a pool interview conducted by KOMO/4. "It's a young Arabic-looking boy ... with a ball cap on and an AK in his hand," he said, referring to the weapon he thought the shooter was firing, an AK-47 assault rifle.
"So I said, 'Put down the weapon!' " continued McKown. "Obviously, he was faster on the draw than I was."
Of six shooting victims, McKown, 38, was the most seriously injured. He said he has no movement in his left leg and only 10 percent normal movement in his right. He isn't sure if he'll ever walk again, though he's hopeful and determined to do so.
Police arrested Dominick Sergio Maldonado, 20, in the shooting. They also say he took four hostages at a Sam Goody music store at the mall. Pierce County prosecutors charged Maldonado with eight counts of first-degree assault, four counts of first-degree kidnapping and two counts of unlawful possession of a firearm.
As an assistant manager of the Excalibur Cutlery and Gifts store, McKown was on his way to make a deposit at the time of the shooting. Tacoma police said he was legally permitted to be carrying a pistol at the time.
"It's a stupid statement, but I have a concealed weapons permit in case some idiot shoots up a mall," said McKown, who added that he likely would return to his job, and may also start doing stand-up comedy again.
McKown on Monday was upgraded to satisfactory condition, said Todd Kelley, a spokesman for Tacoma General. Kelley said McKown might be discharged in the next couple of days to a rehabilitation clinic.
McKown was struck twice in the abdomen, and he also suffered an injury to his spinal cord. Surgery to remove bullet and bone fragments from his spinal canal was successful, though he faces the possibility of partial or permanent paralysis.
McKown said that in the end, he was thankful to be alive. "I'd be lying if I thought I was doing great," he said. "But I sure got off light, all things considered."
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/250101_wounded29.html
Tuesday, November 29, 2005
Mall shooting victim is glad he held his fire
More might have been hit, he says
By SAM SKOLNIK
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER
In one of his first interviews since the shooting at the Tacoma Mall on Nov. 20, victim Brendan McKown said Monday he feared that if he had taken a shot at the man firing into the crowds, he might have only caused other shoppers to get struck by bullets.
When the shooting started, McKown, a mall store assistant manager with a license to carry a firearm, said he didn't know who was firing at whom. So he made a snap decision not to stand up and fire back. "It could be three policemen firing at one guy, and I could come out and be another target," he said.
Mall shooting victim Brendan McKown answers reporters' questions with humor from his hospital bed at Tacoma General on Monday.
So he yelled at the man to drop his gun -- a move that only caused the gunman to pivot and fire at McKown, striking him, he said, five or six times. The shots blew him back several feet, he said.
"When I changed into another position, I see just the most surreal sight," McKown said from his bed at Tacoma General Hospital in a pool interview conducted by KOMO/4. "It's a young Arabic-looking boy ... with a ball cap on and an AK in his hand," he said, referring to the weapon he thought the shooter was firing, an AK-47 assault rifle.
"So I said, 'Put down the weapon!' " continued McKown. "Obviously, he was faster on the draw than I was."
Of six shooting victims, McKown, 38, was the most seriously injured. He said he has no movement in his left leg and only 10 percent normal movement in his right. He isn't sure if he'll ever walk again, though he's hopeful and determined to do so.
Police arrested Dominick Sergio Maldonado, 20, in the shooting. They also say he took four hostages at a Sam Goody music store at the mall. Pierce County prosecutors charged Maldonado with eight counts of first-degree assault, four counts of first-degree kidnapping and two counts of unlawful possession of a firearm.
As an assistant manager of the Excalibur Cutlery and Gifts store, McKown was on his way to make a deposit at the time of the shooting. Tacoma police said he was legally permitted to be carrying a pistol at the time.
"It's a stupid statement, but I have a concealed weapons permit in case some idiot shoots up a mall," said McKown, who added that he likely would return to his job, and may also start doing stand-up comedy again.
McKown on Monday was upgraded to satisfactory condition, said Todd Kelley, a spokesman for Tacoma General. Kelley said McKown might be discharged in the next couple of days to a rehabilitation clinic.
McKown was struck twice in the abdomen, and he also suffered an injury to his spinal cord. Surgery to remove bullet and bone fragments from his spinal canal was successful, though he faces the possibility of partial or permanent paralysis.
McKown said that in the end, he was thankful to be alive. "I'd be lying if I thought I was doing great," he said. "But I sure got off light, all things considered."
I feel really bad for the guy. Its real easy to quarterback from your chair and say what you would do EVERY TIME, but its just not that simple for a normal civilian, who hasn't been trained, to make the choice to take a human life in a split second. Even highly trained people sometimes freeze or hesitate. Unfortunately, as the old saying goes, he who hesitates is lost.....
Its really a shame that he didn't pop that sick freak. I honestly feel they should bring back the firing squad for him, just so he could see how his victims felt....
Its really a shame that he didn't pop that sick freak. I honestly feel they should bring back the firing squad for him, just so he could see how his victims felt....
XavierBreath
New member
I think this would be a good time to submit a plug for Lt. dave grossman's book, On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society,and On Combat. These are books that anyone who carries a gun with the potential to someday use it against another human being should read.
There is a lot to this taking a life stuff that is never discussed. In the stress of the moment, it is not as easy as many believe.
There is a lot to this taking a life stuff that is never discussed. In the stress of the moment, it is not as easy as many believe.
I really do feal for the guy. But I sure hope if I found myself in the same situation, that I would act a little differently. I agree once the shooting has started, the time for talk is over. I see two choices after the shooting starts. Either shoot back, or run like hell. Either one may still get you killed, but anything in between will almost guarantee you will get killed.
The fact that the guy "followed his body as it fell, continuing to shoot" shows his mentality. What gets me is this scum was only charged with assault! He shoots a guy deliberatly, and continues shooting him multiple times after he has gone down, and that is just assault?!?!?!? That sounds like attempted murder to me. As far as I'm concerned, if you intentionaly point a gun at another human with malicious intent and pull the trigger, you should be up for murder, and if convicted, executed. Even if you missed, you made the mental choice to comit murder, so whether you succede or not, in my mind, you are guilty of the crime of murder. But perhaps I am too harsh.
The fact that the guy "followed his body as it fell, continuing to shoot" shows his mentality. What gets me is this scum was only charged with assault! He shoots a guy deliberatly, and continues shooting him multiple times after he has gone down, and that is just assault?!?!?!? That sounds like attempted murder to me. As far as I'm concerned, if you intentionaly point a gun at another human with malicious intent and pull the trigger, you should be up for murder, and if convicted, executed. Even if you missed, you made the mental choice to comit murder, so whether you succede or not, in my mind, you are guilty of the crime of murder. But perhaps I am too harsh.
Garand Illusion
New member
The way they describe the situation, I don't know what I'd do. People running everywhere, the fear that the cops are there returning fire ... unless I had a clear target my real concern would be to get away. If I didn't have a good backstop I'd still take a shot, but I'd make a point to get at least a "flash sight" on him.
Of course ... downside is stopping to do that might be more likely to get me hurt than just running with the sheep.
When you choose to be a sheepdog, you take your chances.
Of course ... downside is stopping to do that might be more likely to get me hurt than just running with the sheep.
When you choose to be a sheepdog, you take your chances.
itgoesboom
New member
Duxman,
Actually the shooting was in Washington State. Not Maryland. Not D.C.
As for his tactics? I won't judge him. But the way the first article read, it sounds like he might not have been ready and willing to shoot someone in self defence.
That decision needs to be made upfront, not when it hits the fan.
I.G.B.
shooting a 'boy'
Part of the problem may have been what he says he saw:
Obviously even skinny litte dweebs are capable of putting multiple hits on you as you are falling to the ground, but unless you're in pure automation mode, it would have to be hard to try to drop a 'boy'.
Part of the problem may have been what he says he saw:
It's one thing to shoot a faceless thug, but this dude looks like opey taylor with a james dean do.
Obviously even skinny litte dweebs are capable of putting multiple hits on you as you are falling to the ground, but unless you're in pure automation mode, it would have to be hard to try to drop a 'boy'.
Re CCW mall guy
Hi
I do hope that the man gets well. We all hope we would engage and take him out but we do not know how we may react. I do agree that the choice to carry a gun for self defense implies that we have already decided that if there was no other way that we would shoot to stop the BG. If they die that is too bad. However the thought that "I might get arrested for brandishing a weapon" could have been eliminated if the mall guy and all of us for that matter were thoughly familiar with when and when we can't draw our weapon. In the mall case it is a a draw and shoot case. The mall guy's thought of being shot by responding police is a valid concern. This is something we all need to keep in our thoughts. Anyway, GODSPEED to the mall CCW guy and all the oters who were shot.
Hi
I do hope that the man gets well. We all hope we would engage and take him out but we do not know how we may react. I do agree that the choice to carry a gun for self defense implies that we have already decided that if there was no other way that we would shoot to stop the BG. If they die that is too bad. However the thought that "I might get arrested for brandishing a weapon" could have been eliminated if the mall guy and all of us for that matter were thoughly familiar with when and when we can't draw our weapon. In the mall case it is a a draw and shoot case. The mall guy's thought of being shot by responding police is a valid concern. This is something we all need to keep in our thoughts. Anyway, GODSPEED to the mall CCW guy and all the oters who were shot.
stickslinger
New member
I read it this way.
Good guy draws his gun and takes cover, then has second thoughts. So he HOLSTERS his firearm...a pistol....steps out from behind cover while keeping eye contact with the BG and confronts a killer carrying a RIFLE!
I really hope the guy recovers, I wish him well. I can understand all the reasons why he chose not to shoot. I don't understand not staying behind cover and holstering your weapon when someone is shooting! I can understand freezing with the gun in your hand or hiding even though your armed...plenty of good reasons for that....but I don't understand putting your pistol back in your holster and then telling an obviously malicious armed bad guy to drop his weapon
As Clint Smith is fond of saying..."keep the muzzle pointed at the bad guy!"
I think he admitted to making some bad decisions. The reason we analyze these events and MMQB is the same reason we train and the same reason world class athletes visiualize themselves performing their sport. So that when it actually happens, it's natural. I believe the more times you put yourself in that position in your mind the better chance you have of acting like you visualized if it ever happens to you.
Good guy draws his gun and takes cover, then has second thoughts. So he HOLSTERS his firearm...a pistol....steps out from behind cover while keeping eye contact with the BG and confronts a killer carrying a RIFLE!
I really hope the guy recovers, I wish him well. I can understand all the reasons why he chose not to shoot. I don't understand not staying behind cover and holstering your weapon when someone is shooting! I can understand freezing with the gun in your hand or hiding even though your armed...plenty of good reasons for that....but I don't understand putting your pistol back in your holster and then telling an obviously malicious armed bad guy to drop his weapon
As Clint Smith is fond of saying..."keep the muzzle pointed at the bad guy!"
I think he admitted to making some bad decisions. The reason we analyze these events and MMQB is the same reason we train and the same reason world class athletes visiualize themselves performing their sport. So that when it actually happens, it's natural. I believe the more times you put yourself in that position in your mind the better chance you have of acting like you visualized if it ever happens to you.
I think like a lot of people that carry for a lot of reasons when TSHTF they find out they can't shoot. No real shame, happens to many cops. This society does not as a rule raise killers in the general population. “Making the decision before you carry” only means you have given it some thought does not mean you will actually shoot when the time comes. Train and train some more. In talking with shooting involved cops they all basically say the same thing, they hesitated until it was almost too late because they don’t want to kill somebody. At some point the training takes over and they follow though like they were trained and survived…
Alot of us learn from it. If you survive the first incident most say never again and mean it. Know a cop didn't fire when he should have. Was involved in two more fatal shootins within 10 years and won each one. He said it was the first "real world" incident that convinced him to act.
Alot of us learn from it. If you survive the first incident most say never again and mean it. Know a cop didn't fire when he should have. Was involved in two more fatal shootins within 10 years and won each one. He said it was the first "real world" incident that convinced him to act.
stickslinger
New member
Upon further reflection, could you say that his fear of the police / authority was greater than his fear of being shot?
Didn't he say that he holstered his gun because he didn't know if the police were shooting and didn't want to get in the way? He also mentioned not wanting to get in trouble for brandishing his firearm in the mall.
Didn't he say that he holstered his gun because he didn't know if the police were shooting and didn't want to get in the way? He also mentioned not wanting to get in trouble for brandishing his firearm in the mall.
More than well wishes
For any reader wanting to do more than wish McKown well, you may send contributions to: Dan McKown Medical Fund, c/o Bank of America, 4002 Tacoma Mall Blvd., Tacoma, WA 98409-7702. His medical expenses will be huge and, right here at Christmas time, I think some cards with checks enclosed would brighten his day.
Regardless of how you view his tactics or however you care to look at what happened, he is definitely a good guy and in need of cheer; and financial help won't hurt either.
John
Charlotte, NC
For any reader wanting to do more than wish McKown well, you may send contributions to: Dan McKown Medical Fund, c/o Bank of America, 4002 Tacoma Mall Blvd., Tacoma, WA 98409-7702. His medical expenses will be huge and, right here at Christmas time, I think some cards with checks enclosed would brighten his day.
Regardless of how you view his tactics or however you care to look at what happened, he is definitely a good guy and in need of cheer; and financial help won't hurt either.
John
Charlotte, NC
glad he survived.
MMQB is ok.
Situations like these we all must learn from.
He says he was afraid he would get shot, or that the cops might shoot him, yet he recognized that it was a kid with an AK.
No reason to confront, aim and fire.
If you are not comfotable with your position, keep cover, move, get a better handle on the situation, where is he shooting? Does he have an advantage on your position? Can you move? Can you get a better shot? Do you see any cops where he was firing? Can you take cover and if not comfortable to shoot get on your cell phone?
This is what training is for.
Dude is very lucky to be alive, and everyone should take a moment to re-read the story and play the scenario in their head.
These things are happening more often now. Be ready. Trainining will kick in.
MMQB is ok.
Situations like these we all must learn from.
He says he was afraid he would get shot, or that the cops might shoot him, yet he recognized that it was a kid with an AK.
No reason to confront, aim and fire.
If you are not comfotable with your position, keep cover, move, get a better handle on the situation, where is he shooting? Does he have an advantage on your position? Can you move? Can you get a better shot? Do you see any cops where he was firing? Can you take cover and if not comfortable to shoot get on your cell phone?
This is what training is for.
Dude is very lucky to be alive, and everyone should take a moment to re-read the story and play the scenario in their head.
These things are happening more often now. Be ready. Trainining will kick in.
I also can't believe he was allowed to lay there on the floor for an HOUR!!! If they were afraid to take him out through the mall, why couldn't they take him out through the back of the store he was in? And the police were already there, and had the guy shooter cornered in the music store.
I am not bagging on the ploice, but you can bet if one of them had been shot, he would have been dragged out a lot quicker than an hour!
He is lucky he didn't bleed to death.
I am not bagging on the ploice, but you can bet if one of them had been shot, he would have been dragged out a lot quicker than an hour!
He is lucky he didn't bleed to death.
xrageofangelsx
New member
Oh my...jeff_troop
New member
gfd
