Tackling Active Shooters as Self Defense

Other than what the OP said, I would have no intention of tackling a shooter. There might be some remote chance that I might find the opportunity to attack a shooter from behind, if the right circumstances presented.

I look at it this way - I owe the greatest duty of protection to my family and myself. I will help others, but not at a great risk of getting myself killed. Others need to provide their own protection for self and loved ones. Just because some of us carry guns, doesn't turn us into cops or deputies. Myself, I am neither armed, nor trained, to defend anyone not right near me.
 
If I ever find myself sans gun and able to sneak up behind an active shooter, we're going to find out if he can turn around and shoot me while I'm wiggling the knife I've just jammed into his neck.
 
the main problem I have with "tackling" is you typically have to weight till they are reloading.

even in a small revolver thats 5-6 shots.
 
Skans said:
Just because some of us carry guns, doesn't turn us into cops or deputies. Myself, I am neither armed, nor trained, to defend anyone not right near me.
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This. Nothing else.

--Wag--
 
The trouble with opening fire at a rally to stop an active shooter is mainly the possibility of hitting innocents, by missing, over penetration, or by misidentification.

Add to that the possibility of someone else mistaking you for another active shooter and you see why there is hesitation to fire.

What to do? As they have shown many times if the active shooter is in the process of reloading that is the time to attack! And if you are not an excellent combat shot, then trying to engage such an active shooter in a crowded location with such as a J smith .38 snub, well that’s asking for big trouble.

If you can, take them down and disarm them. But like being an excellent shot, I strongly suggest you have some H2H skills so you can tackle and disarm such a shooter.

Deaf
 
I'd probably try to tackle a shooter in preference to playing dead, but not in preference to any other viable response. Since I'm usually both armed with my carry gun and carrying pepper spray and a tactical bright flashlight, I'd usually have better options than pretending I'm a football linesman. About all I can say in favor of me tackling a shooter is that I'm big enough to block his shots at other people at least briefly. (wry grin) The problem with that is that I'd be drawing fire, and not likely to live through it if the shooter is competent. All things considered, I'd rather live.

However, if living isn't an option, I think that I'd choose to go out fighting.
 
Tackling an active shooter? I ain't Hussein Bolt...so there is little chance I am going to have the speed to actually take someone down from anything outside of what would be considered h2h distance anyway. If he is inside of 6 feet and I have the drop and I am not carrying I am going to use WHATEVER is at my disposal to kill him, pocket knife, pen, bottle, or simply hoping I can get the gun out of his hands and use my Jiu Jitsu to get to any form of hold I can.

This ACTUALLY brings another discussion that I think I will start another thread about WHEN to draw your weapon. I think it will be a similar answer to this one: one do YOU deem it the right time to strike? But I digress to the tackling.

If I am FORCED to take on an active shooter and he is trying to execute me or he is within ANY form of distance that I can actually consider an attemptable distance I am going to do my best to kill him or disable him to an extent that he CANNOT physically fight back...because if he is still capable of moving he will probably try to harm someone else.
 
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This was a scenario that one of the Gunnery Sgts asked us during martial arts training. There's a guy popping off rounds at people while you're on leave. You're not close enough to hit him without running at him. What do you do?

Most of us said take cover and wait until he reloads to take him to the ground. A few other said take cover and wait until he reloads before drawing their own weapon and firing when there aren't any incoming rounds. We all pretty much had the agreement that acting when there are rounds coming at you isn't smart, and to wait until an advantage comes up, like them stopping to reload.

Not everyone has martial arts training or a concealed weapon, but knowing when to act and then following through seems to make a huge difference in stopping or delaying an attacker enough for someone else to stop them.
 
Tackling an active shooter? I ain't Hussein Bolt...so there is little chance I am going to have the speed to actually take someone down from anything outside of what would be considered h2h distance anyway.
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Funny how many people aren't Hussein Bolt and who stop shooters by tackling them. Funny how so many have no real training in such matters. Funny how many people inside of H2H distance don't do anything to stop the shooter. Funny how sometimes people outside of H2H have to work to get to the shooter to stop him/her.

You don't have to be Hussein Bolt to make a difference, but you need to be smart about your actions.
 
The idea that you have to tackle an armed person has always been in my head. As I've mentioned a lot, I don't carry a firearm, so shooting back isn't an option in any case. So, within a range of 10 feet I am fairly confident, I train that way. I don't doubt my death would be at that moment, but at such a range you don't have time to wait for them to stop shooting. At a mid range from 15 to 25 feet there's still more of a chance for being shot and less of a chance you will be able to wait until they stop firing. Any distance after that you are less likely to be shot and have a better chance of waiting for a reload.

This is simply my observation, don't take my word on it. As a variable, you could have between 15 and 50 other people in the room. The more there are, the better and worse it may be. Swarms of fish confuse predators and make it more difficult to focus on one. However, more people could mean more casualties. When to act may be decided on time and distance, but it will always be more influenced by who else/how many people is/are in the room.

That being said, I would go for the weapon shoulder as any natural reaction is a predictable retreat back and this helps the tackle. After that, the shoulder controls the arm. Being sure to have the arm locked out to the best of your abilities is a plus, as you may get shot still, however controlling the arm on the ground is where you can have control of the gun. As for a rifle you have the same idea. They have the ability to hold on with both hands however, so effort must be made on the firing hand not the support hand. If you have a knife use it. I prefer to make a thrust during the tackle, that way some damage is done if I don't accomplish to disarm them. Distractions as were mentioned are a plus, but more so if you aren't doing it.

Those are my observations and opinions. I am definitely NOT going to do nothing. I haven't lived long enough.
 
I don't think Mr Donston ever got his answer, I'll take a stab at it. Police training is focused on stopping attackers, not killing them. Not every deadly force situation has a deadly force solution. A police officer will know that every person with a gun is not necessarily an attacker and will not shoot every armed person he encounters.
A few thoughts on charging: have you ever tried to engage and shoot a rapidly advancing target? A charging target that presents a threat is remarkably hard to hit. Handgun bullet wounds are often survivable with the right mindset and immediate medical care. Another thought, wouldn't it be nice if two or three folks got the idea to charge a shooter at the same time? It happens, and sometimes it works quite well.
 
Tackle? I stink at tackles.
If I had an opening, I'd take a stab at it...or a strike with a metal flashlight (or some basic strikes/grapple moves, as a less than attractive option).
 
maybe your comprehension would be better
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Well, I read the thread, and this is my conclusion about tacking. I've probably prevented three armed robberies about to take place in a Kentucky Fried Chicken, a gun store and a stop-n-rob convenience store. Also an assault from the rear in a WalMart restroom. I say probably because all four potential incidents never actually went down, so I have to qualify my statement.

In all cases, the mere perception I had a gun or was otherwise about to interfere (telephone) was sufficient to back the suspects down.

A tackle in any of the above would have proven disastrous, as all three of the possible robbery attempts involved multiple perps. But stay on your feet, and for them it comes down to who wants to get shot first or still be around when the cops roll up.
 
I played football as a kid and as a young & dumb LEO I put my tackling skills to good use more than a few times on unarmed suspects. I was bigger than some pro linemen and when I hit someone, they stayed down, fight over. :D On occasion I'd apply a choke hold on the way down and he'd wake up in handcuffs. Those were the days. ;)
And no, a weapon wouldn't have made a difference in tactics or outcome in most cases.
 
Well, I read the thread, and this is my conclusion about tacking. I've probably prevented three armed robberies about to take place in a Kentucky Fried Chicken, a gun store and a stop-n-rob convenience store. Also an assault from the rear in a WalMart restroom. I say probably because all four potential incidents never actually went down, so I have to qualify my statement.
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Okay, so what you are saying is that you read the whole thread, finally, and still completely missed the points being made. Shooting isn't always an option and is no option if you don't have a gun. So what are you going to do if you aren't armed or can't use your gun if you find yourself in an active shooter situation? By active shooter, I am not talking about your unrelated stories of stopping robberies that never occurred. Those were not active shooter events and hence are in no way related to the thread.

Just because you are unarmed or can't use your gun should not mean that you are defenseless or helpless, though being defenseless and helpless is how many CCW folks describe themselves on forums like TFL when they talk about being unarmed. There are options, all sorts, and if you want to take an active roll in stopping the shooter, tackling is an option that is often used successfully. It is done at great peril, no doubt, but chances are the folks in the situation where the active shooter is killing people are already in great peril.
 
The best time for the physical defense is BEFORE the first shot. Before the shooter works up to actually shooting there's some indecision and possibly some confusion that can allow a successful physical attack. A physical attack from multiple points will often confuse an inexerienced shooter allowing contact to be made.
 
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