Synthetic Motor Oil for lubing a gun?
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Been using ATF for years myself. Though, I pretty much only own revolvers, so I don't have the same lubrication needs as a semi-auto.
Brake fluid is, but this is the first time I've heard that about ATF (on a gun forum too!). Got any documentation? Not being a smart-arse, I'm seriously curious because I use ATF almost exclusively. That said, I haven't noticed any indication of increased corrosion with it.
A quick google search indicated no such thing and actually returned many results using ATF as a rust preventative or remover in a variety of areas (auto, machining, firearms, etc). There's also the fact that ATF is a significant ingredient in Ed's Red, a well respected firearm potion.
Chris
RE: ATF
One of the main components of ED'S RED is atf. The mixture is acclaimed in most areas of the gun world. Ed Harris used ATF because it replaced sperm oil when whale hunting was controlled. (Early auto transmissions use sperm oil, Ed said.)
You can mix Ed's Red yourself or buy it premixed at Brownells
One of the main components of ED'S RED is atf. The mixture is acclaimed in most areas of the gun world. Ed Harris used ATF because it replaced sperm oil when whale hunting was controlled. (Early auto transmissions use sperm oil, Ed said.)
You can mix Ed's Red yourself or buy it premixed at Brownells
Mike Irwin
Staff
Glycol based fluids are hygroscopic, but I don't believe that ATF is glycol-based. Brake fluid is.
meatgrinder42
New member
Incorrect, I have my certification from GM for rebuilding and servicing automatic transmissions. ATF is actually pretty close to 20w-40 motor oil with tons of detergents and in some cases friction modifiers. It's not glycol based, if it was you'd destroy the seals inside the trans and the fiber disks inside the clutch packs would be junk in seconds. Most ATF is synthetic/conventional blend, but most modern cars (about 2007 and newer) are full synthetic from the factory. Also makes great cutting oil.
Motor oil wouldn't be a bad choice either, I'd go synthetic because it's resistance to heat is better than full conventional. Someone asked about the corrosion resistance it has? It has great anti-corrosion properties like most other oils, it doesn't have the same 'extras' as ATF but it will keep rust out. But you'll probably get that nice smell if you use it in your bore heavily.
Brake fluid would be a god awful choice because it is Ethylene-glycol base. As would coolant because it's the same stuff, but Dexron Coolant/anti-freeze is as corrosive as battery acid anyway. Power steering fluids are usually ethylene-glycol based, but many are going synthetic as well.
And a little fun fact, DOT 5 brake fluid is synthetic, not glycol based.
Anyway, I use Dexron VI on my 1911's slide, and Dexron LS gear oil on my Mausers' firing pins. ATF is a great lubricant for anything mechanical. And if someone says you're trying to cheap out by buying ATF, my fluid costs around 7-8 bucks a quart
. I've also used DEX-VI in the bores when I know they're going to be put away for a long time. I run a dry patch through them before I fire them, just because ATF smells like crap when it's burned, but it keeps them nice and shiny.overkill0084
New member
It seems as though Oil/lube threads on firearms forums are nearly as contentious as those on Motorcycle or vehicle forums. Seems to me, not matter what someone uses, someone else will find fault with it.
I use either synthetic Motor oil or some "gun oil", it depends on which is closest, on the small rotating parts. As a slide grease, I have found that PJ-1 chain lube works really well. It flows into postion and stays put. IMHO, it's a better slide lube than a chain lube. The stuff flings bad even after a careful wipedown when used for it's stated purpose. Maxima chain lube is very much like cosmoline when it sets (it even states this on the can). I've used it (along with CLP) on guns that will be in the safe for a while untouched. Since my new bike is belt drive, these should be on hand for a while.
$.02 C/W, YMMV.
I use either synthetic Motor oil or some "gun oil", it depends on which is closest, on the small rotating parts. As a slide grease, I have found that PJ-1 chain lube works really well. It flows into postion and stays put. IMHO, it's a better slide lube than a chain lube. The stuff flings bad even after a careful wipedown when used for it's stated purpose. Maxima chain lube is very much like cosmoline when it sets (it even states this on the can). I've used it (along with CLP) on guns that will be in the safe for a while untouched. Since my new bike is belt drive, these should be on hand for a while.
$.02 C/W, YMMV.
sirgilligan
New member
I am working on a home recipe for some slide grease.
I have bought a container of Mobile 1 synthetic grease. I am going to try it straight on the rails of one of my semi-auto pistols. If it seems too thick I am going to thin it a bit with synthetic automatic transmission fluid.
I am thinking a little dab with a cotton swab smeared about goes a long long way!
It's not about being cheap, it's about being ripped off. Gun oils are priced very high for what they seem to be, which seems to be repackaged industrial oils with maybe, and I feel maybe is key, some special additives.
When I find Break Free CLP cheap, I buy it, but when it is $8.00 for that tiny little bottle, no way.
I have bought a container of Mobile 1 synthetic grease. I am going to try it straight on the rails of one of my semi-auto pistols. If it seems too thick I am going to thin it a bit with synthetic automatic transmission fluid.
I am thinking a little dab with a cotton swab smeared about goes a long long way!
It's not about being cheap, it's about being ripped off. Gun oils are priced very high for what they seem to be, which seems to be repackaged industrial oils with maybe, and I feel maybe is key, some special additives.
When I find Break Free CLP cheap, I buy it, but when it is $8.00 for that tiny little bottle, no way.
meatgrinder42
New member
sirgilligan: The synthetic grease would work on it's own if you just take a cotton swab and put a thin film in the rails I would think.
Woo hoo ! another lubrication thread!
I love lubrication threads.
I don't think ATF is hygroscopic, but I posed the question to the tribologists on my favorite lube forums.
I can't tell you how much I love lubrication threads...
My wife once had a JiffyLube fill her brake system with motor oil. The oil ate away ate the seals and I had a complete brake failure going 50mph heading toward a stop light.
I think that brake fluid is hygroscopic and that's why those particular seals hold the brake fluid, whereas motor oil is not hygroscopic and seeped into the seals.
A great forum for more detailed answers is Bob is the Oil Guy forum...
I wish I had time and money to go back to school, I'd become a tribologist.
I love lubrication threads.
I don't think ATF is hygroscopic, but I posed the question to the tribologists on my favorite lube forums.
I can't tell you how much I love lubrication threads...
My wife once had a JiffyLube fill her brake system with motor oil. The oil ate away ate the seals and I had a complete brake failure going 50mph heading toward a stop light.
I think that brake fluid is hygroscopic and that's why those particular seals hold the brake fluid, whereas motor oil is not hygroscopic and seeped into the seals.
A great forum for more detailed answers is Bob is the Oil Guy forum...
I wish I had time and money to go back to school, I'd become a tribologist.
Mike Irwin
Staff
You want to be one of these?
Seems like a limited career choice given that they went extinct 250 million years ago...
Seems like a limited career choice given that they went extinct 250 million years ago...
Synthetic automotive oil doesn't break down over time. Organic based oil will eventually break down and turn acidic, which is why it used to be recommended to change your oil at least once a year, regardless of milage.
I don't see any problem using a 100% synthetic automotive oil as a gun lubricant for metal-based guns - it won't hurt the gun.
I don't see any problem using a 100% synthetic automotive oil as a gun lubricant for metal-based guns - it won't hurt the gun.
sirgilligan
New member
I do have a question about that. I have seen some gun internals with small o-rings in the bolt carrier group. Also, there are polymer lowers, etc. Any ideas on Mobile 1 and the effect it might have on o-rings and polymer parts?
All of my pistols are all metal setups, Browning Hi-Power, Walther PPK/S, S&W 659, Ruger Mark III,... so no fear there. But what about the other types with o-rings and polymer parts?
I was shocked to learn that Mobil 1 synthetic starts out as dino oil. Yup, crude.
"Both types of engine oil are made from crude oil that comes from the ground. The difference is that synthetic oils undergo numerous additional highly-advanced distilling, refining, and purification processes — and therefore are of a higher purity and quality than conventional mineral oils."
- www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Synthetics/What_Is_Synthetic_Motor_Oil.aspx
"Both types of engine oil are made from crude oil that comes from the ground. The difference is that synthetic oils undergo numerous additional highly-advanced distilling, refining, and purification processes — and therefore are of a higher purity and quality than conventional mineral oils."
- www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Synthetics/What_Is_Synthetic_Motor_Oil.aspx
Mike Irwin
Staff
"Synthetic automotive oil doesn't break down over time. Organic based oil will eventually break down and turn acidic, which is why it used to be recommended to change your oil at least once a year, regardless of milage.
I don't see any problem using a 100% synthetic automotive oil as a gun lubricant for metal-based guns - it won't hurt the gun."
Dino oils have been used for hundreds of years to protect firearms.
I don't see using motor oil to do a job that was done in the past by another kind of dino oil to be a big problem.
I don't see any problem using a 100% synthetic automotive oil as a gun lubricant for metal-based guns - it won't hurt the gun."
Dino oils have been used for hundreds of years to protect firearms.
I don't see using motor oil to do a job that was done in the past by another kind of dino oil to be a big problem.
Being a trilobite wouldn't be so bad - I wouldn't be upside down in my mortgage for one thing.
Supposedly the number one reason Glocks go back to the factory is because they are over lubed. I don't understand that, I mean it takes maybe 30 minutes to detail strip it and wipe it down. Are there really people out there that can't look at a gunked up pistol and figure out that it's gunked up?
And I also don't know what it would take to gunk a Glock. I have gobbed on the grease and the things still fire.
The lighting on the first pic is too bright but I wanted to show the grease - it's just Walmart general purpose packing grease.
And sometimes I glob on the Lubriplate:
I have a G34 and a 17L and they never have failed to cycle with all this grease in them. Dry firing with the Glock as many people know - involves pulling the slide back a little. I will say that all that grease makes it easier to push the slide back.
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Supposedly the number one reason Glocks go back to the factory is because they are over lubed. I don't understand that, I mean it takes maybe 30 minutes to detail strip it and wipe it down. Are there really people out there that can't look at a gunked up pistol and figure out that it's gunked up?
And I also don't know what it would take to gunk a Glock. I have gobbed on the grease and the things still fire.
The lighting on the first pic is too bright but I wanted to show the grease - it's just Walmart general purpose packing grease.
And sometimes I glob on the Lubriplate:
I have a G34 and a 17L and they never have failed to cycle with all this grease in them. Dry firing with the Glock as many people know - involves pulling the slide back a little. I will say that all that grease makes it easier to push the slide back.
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With motor oil and industrial lubricants the question is not the quality and the science behind it as much as it is the application...
"Is this lubricant suited for firearms" that is the question.
With so called "gun" lubricants the question is the quality and the science behind the creation of it. They obviously are being marketed for the firearms application - but what science went into their creation is the big question. Most of the gun oils that are out there are merely mixed products. They are taking existing products that have actually been refined and they are just mixing them. It's like Ed's Red - but at least with Ed's Red you can look at everything that goes in it and decide if you want to use it or not. Some gun cleaning products contain chlorinated esters which have been shown to corrode steel - especially stanless steel.
I agree with everything you've said except one point:
I think it's an error in logic.
I could say use "use Lubriplate XYZ - it is used in gears in the food processing industry that have to be submerged in water, if it lubricates gears that are actually submerged in water - thn it will work to keep a gun lubricated and keep it rust free."
Or I could say "Use Castrol Super Grease, it's used to grease the load bearings of 200 ton log pickers, there isn't 200 tons of stress applied to your pistol so if the grease can keep the joints from shearing, it will definately work in your firearm."
It's really a matter of knowing what you need lubrication in a firearm to do and picking an industrial or automotive lubricant that does all those things.
When I first came across DuPont Krytox I thought it must be the ultimate gun lube. The stuff is super slick... I mean SUPER slippery slip slidey SLICK. I called up DuPont and talked to an engineer (pre-sales technician) and he told me it wouldn't be a good gun lube. It doesn't have good corrosion resistance properties. It's used on materials that need lubrication but are not normally subject to corrosion, or environments where corrosion isn't much of a factor - like almost zero humidity environments or in vacumes.
There is now some Krytox greases that have anti-corrosion additives and I have been wondering how well those would work as a lube - I may give DuPont another call.
Technosavant
New member
There is a difference between lubrication and preservation... while we often use the same substance for both, it doesn't mean that a lousy preservative can't be a good lubricant.
From what I've read, motor oil is a so-so, if not a subpar, preservative (especially compared to substances designed with an eye towards lubricating and preserving). So if you're concerned about corrosion, then it's something to keep in mind. However, it is a good lubricant.
I do use Mobil 1 as a gun lube, but for those guns that are more likely to sit in storage longer than others, I will use something else for enhanced preservative properties (ditto for carry guns that end up seeing different kinds of environments).
I'm sure there's a platonic ideal of lubricant/preservative somewhere out there, but for the most part, the shadows on the cave wall work well enough for my purposes. The harsher the environment, the more thought one needs to give to things.