I look for constancy in my reloads. My first reloads were for a scoped Lee Enfield using Rem brass. I shot !" groups with that. My second example is my Browning 40cal HP. I'd weigh and separate the same brass by manufacturer. I'd weigh and separate the bullets too. For fun, I shot at clay pigeons at 100 yards. I didn't hit the clay pigeon every time but if I was shooting at someone, he would be running for cover. And last, I reloaded for a 1910 Target Swedish Mauser with aperature sights. I weighed and measured all the Norma brass I had; then, did the same with the bullets, then measuring the concentricity of the cartridge so they'd chamber the same way. I got a dime size group at 200 yards. I like petloads shot from a bench and knowing what my gun can shoot at its best. Anything causing a larger group from anything three positions is my fault.
Sub MOA all day long
- Thread starter stagpanther
- Start date
Read up on Ladder tests to compare both bullet placement on your paper and the MV between loads to find your pet load. Then read up on comparing MV deviation between bullet seating depth. I look for my nodes.
My friend who shot cloverleaf groups took the worst of his sorted brass and fired them until the primer pockets go loose or the pressure signs on the primer indicated excessive pressure. I work my way up looking at nodes and look for pressure signs ( including a tight bolt ). If my pet load is far from max, that's fine for me. I'm looking for the best accuracy. My two cents.
My friend who shot cloverleaf groups took the worst of his sorted brass and fired them until the primer pockets go loose or the pressure signs on the primer indicated excessive pressure. I work my way up looking at nodes and look for pressure signs ( including a tight bolt ). If my pet load is far from max, that's fine for me. I'm looking for the best accuracy. My two cents.
I have a Remington 700 VL in 22-250 that will shoot under 1" 5 shot groups. Sometimes a flier, but still under an inch. At 200 yards it would put 4 shots in 3/4", then the 5th shot 1.25" away. Still MOA.
I bought a box of inexpensive ammo and it went all over the place. Like 3" @ 100. My hand loads were better, but not the usual. I cleaned the gun well and its back to normal.
I bought a box of inexpensive ammo and it went all over the place. Like 3" @ 100. My hand loads were better, but not the usual. I cleaned the gun well and its back to normal.
When I hear that phrase I consider it hyperbole, never to be taken literally. We use phrases like that in our normal everyday conversation all the time and no one gets uptight about it.
I may refer to one of my grandkids as "sharp as a tack". Or "fast as lightning". No, they aren't literally as fast as lightning, but people get the idea.
If someone were to say "Sub MOA, all day long" I take it to mean they have a very accurate rifle. No more, no less.
I may refer to one of my grandkids as "sharp as a tack". Or "fast as lightning". No, they aren't literally as fast as lightning, but people get the idea.
If someone were to say "Sub MOA, all day long" I take it to mean they have a very accurate rifle. No more, no less.
It no longer means anything because people use it as hyperbole, or to make themselves feel good about lying on the internet.
In another forum, some guy claimed he was putting 9 pellets of 00 buck into 9" at 50 yards with every shot. No, he was not, but the internet is rarely about facts anymore. To some degree, TFL is better than the internet in general, so IMHO, a valid discussion to at least get people to think about being accurate.
In another forum, some guy claimed he was putting 9 pellets of 00 buck into 9" at 50 yards with every shot. No, he was not, but the internet is rarely about facts anymore. To some degree, TFL is better than the internet in general, so IMHO, a valid discussion to at least get people to think about being accurate.
Colorado Redneck
New member
Target shooting has its purpose but seldom do I go to the rifle range and hammer away through 50 rounds. Never, in fact. A couple of 204 Ruger rifles I had would shoot 5 rounds into itty bitty groups. After a load is worked up and tried at 300 yards from the bench, its used for prairie rats . Infinitely more enjoyable to me. As age keeps limiting various things like stamina and dedication and eyesight and concentration the size of groups has sorta loosened up. But, nothing like a June day with blue skies, green grasslands, sunshine and guns. I envy those that can buckle down and concentrate on performing good shooting techniques for a sustained period of time.
OneFreeTexan
New member
Jim,,,,That is probably the greatest comment I have ever seen on the internet.
I have built many rifles that would put 20-30 (maybe more) rounds into a 1" square on a sight-in target at 100 yds. But your typical rifle? Not often. 5-10 shots maybe, but fouling and heat take a toll pretty fast with factory barrels. But aftermarket premium barrels can shoot pretty darn well for extended shot strings if they are properly stress-relieved and have a good smooth bore. Varmint and target shooters routinely shoot lots of rounds without cleaning with little degrading of accuracy.
And yes, the shooters often start shooting inconsistently faster than the gun does.
And yes, the shooters often start shooting inconsistently faster than the gun does.
stagpanther
New member
Good question. Also what the moon cycle is or leap year?
Where I shoot it is almost always windy so if I wait around enough for things to get just right--and I'm up to it--I will eventually find a load that is capable of sub MOA at 100yds for most of my rifles. But I view that as "when things are just right at an ideal distance," and that's a far cry from "all day long"--a term I've never used. I'd love to see a video of someone actually shoot sub-MOA all day long.
Fun read. Back in the 60's Dad spent alot of time with a Rem 40x in .222 with a Unertl scope. He also spent alot of time shooting wood chucks back then. One day he came home all excited. He'd put 5 rounds at 100 yards into a hole the size of a cigarette. He sent his target off to Sierra to be measured and they told him that if done in competition it would have been some sort of record. It was very accurate for him. I was a teenager at the time without his dedication and I shot 1 1/4 to 1 1/2" inch groups with it.
Today I have a Colt Competition AR-15 that was sold with a 100 yard 5 shot .383" target down a tunnel. Nice to have but so far I've not taken the time to get the most out of it. If I do get the time, I'd love to see what I can wring out of that rifle. If not, I'll pass it on to someone else to try.
Today I have a Colt Competition AR-15 that was sold with a 100 yard 5 shot .383" target down a tunnel. Nice to have but so far I've not taken the time to get the most out of it. If I do get the time, I'd love to see what I can wring out of that rifle. If not, I'll pass it on to someone else to try.
I've not gone through many accurate rifles but I did once have a TC 14" Contender in 7mm TCU that was given a nice trigger job and a 4x scope mounted professionally. With it at 100 yards it would shoot many a cloverleaf even while fire forming brass. At 200 I kept one target that went 1 5/8". I had all the confidence in the world in that set up and shot a nice score with it at the Masters Pistol tournament back in 1978. It certainly would shoot sub moa for me and I've considered it the most accurate firearm I've worked with so far. All day long? yea, right.
