stagpanther
New member
I've heard and read this quote a thousand times over decades--my question is has such a rifle ever truly existed? Seems impossible to me.
Sub MOA all day long
- Thread starter stagpanther
- Start date
Yes, it's true, because that many rifle-ammo combinations will do that. .
The person shooting them may not be up to it.
USA military rifle team top classified members were issued rebuilt 7.62 NATO semiautomatic rifles that easily tested sub MOA through 600 yards with commercial match ammo, Sierra match rebulleted M118 match or handloads with new cases and commercial match bullets.
The person shooting them may not be up to it.
USA military rifle team top classified members were issued rebuilt 7.62 NATO semiautomatic rifles that easily tested sub MOA through 600 yards with commercial match ammo, Sierra match rebulleted M118 match or handloads with new cases and commercial match bullets.
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GA used to advertise they could build a 3/8 MOA rifle.
The sales guy I talked to there said quit doing that after they got so many complaints to the contrary: they would get the rifle back, check it out, shoot a 3/8” pattern then send it back. The lesson was many shooters have no chance at 3/8 MOA much less 1 MOA because they don’t have the training.
EDIT: I stand corrected: GA still advertises their 3/8 MOA HRT and Hospitaller rifles.
The sales guy I talked to there said quit doing that after they got so many complaints to the contrary: they would get the rifle back, check it out, shoot a 3/8” pattern then send it back. The lesson was many shooters have no chance at 3/8 MOA much less 1 MOA because they don’t have the training.
EDIT: I stand corrected: GA still advertises their 3/8 MOA HRT and Hospitaller rifles.
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stagpanther
New member
Yes, but ALL day long? I'd like to see that.
Check the aggregate groups in these sites
https://internationalbenchrest.com/results
https://www.nbrsa.org/cactus-classic-results-2019/
https://internationalbenchrest.com/results
https://www.nbrsa.org/cactus-classic-results-2019/
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ammo.crafter
New member
moa
My 989k Mauser (WW II) converted to 6mm Remington has always shot sub MOA with very exacting handloads and specific cartridge selection.
My 989k Mauser (WW II) converted to 6mm Remington has always shot sub MOA with very exacting handloads and specific cartridge selection.
NoSecondBest
New member
I've owned several rifles over the years that will shoot sub 1moa five shot groups until it became monotonously boring to shoot them. It really comes down to the rifle, the load, and the person shooting it. A rifle is like any process, it can be extremely repeatable (narrow distribution) or have a wider distribution. I do agree that most of the bravado about "all day long" is composed of "wallet groups". A wallet group being a one time thing someone did (usually with three shots) and then put in their wallet to show everyone they can shoot very tiny groups at will. If you ever get the chance to hang around "the big dogs" you'll see that there are some really, really good shooters out there who can shoot like that "all day long". It takes some time, investment, and experience to get there. It's not with an off the shelf Wal Mart special and a box of factory ammo.
stagpanther
New member
Nice shooting--but I'm talking REAL rifle.
So, you think that Anschutz 1911 rifle was only a figment of my imagination?Nice shooting--but I'm talking REAL rifle.
i tried to post a pic.... that didnt work
My FN SPR will do under 1/2” if i do my part. I just had the barrel shortened to 18” and installed a muzzle break/suppressor mount for my SDn6.
So this next week its off to the range to re-zero and get new velocity data. We’ll see how it shoots now
My FN SPR will do under 1/2” if i do my part. I just had the barrel shortened to 18” and installed a muzzle break/suppressor mount for my SDn6.
So this next week its off to the range to re-zero and get new velocity data. We’ll see how it shoots now
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stagpanther
New member
Just teasing.
mikejonestkd
New member
IMO it is more likely that the shooter can not hold sub MOA, than the rifle not being capable of it.
Bart's comment " The person shooting them may not be up to it." is dead on.
A quick example, I finally saved up enough coin for a bucket list rifle - an Anschutz 1710 HB, and put a top dollar scope on it. My first trip to the range was disappointing- It wasn't really shooting better than any of my other .22s at 100 yards.
An old timer that was a lifelong smallbore competition shooter offered to try it for me. He shot 4 sub MOA 5 shot groups in a row off the bench. He handed back the rifle and then generously offered to train me how to properly shoot a rifle.
Its been almost 20 years since that lesson, Floyd is long since passed onto the happy hunting ground but I still am reminded regularly that its often the Indian, not the arrow, that makes precision shooting possible
Bart's comment " The person shooting them may not be up to it." is dead on.
A quick example, I finally saved up enough coin for a bucket list rifle - an Anschutz 1710 HB, and put a top dollar scope on it. My first trip to the range was disappointing- It wasn't really shooting better than any of my other .22s at 100 yards.
An old timer that was a lifelong smallbore competition shooter offered to try it for me. He shot 4 sub MOA 5 shot groups in a row off the bench. He handed back the rifle and then generously offered to train me how to properly shoot a rifle.
Its been almost 20 years since that lesson, Floyd is long since passed onto the happy hunting ground but I still am reminded regularly that its often the Indian, not the arrow, that makes precision shooting possible
^^^^^^^
THIS!
stagpanther
New member
I typically shoot about 50 cartridges per 1.5 hour rifle session. When I see the comment "sub-MOA all day long," That's my frame of reference. 
I have rifles I have done it with on multiple occasions, 100 plus rounds over the course of 6 to 7 hours. All match ammo that was worked up in the specific gun. Easier at 100 than 600 for sure.
A few years ago, I was at the range practicing with a variety of guns and set up my match .260 for 550 yards on a single paper target. I shot 3 rounds once every hour from 10am until 5pm when I left. 21 rounds printed just under 5". Two weeks later I could not shoot 5 inside 2" at 100 with the same gun and ammo, so I put it up for the day and shot pistols.
Factory "hunting" rifle with factory ammo? I have one that will do it, and I have a friend who has one that will do it, but those are pretty rare.
I will admit, I have never been able to do it with a .22LR rifle yet, but not giving up.
A few years ago, I was at the range practicing with a variety of guns and set up my match .260 for 550 yards on a single paper target. I shot 3 rounds once every hour from 10am until 5pm when I left. 21 rounds printed just under 5". Two weeks later I could not shoot 5 inside 2" at 100 with the same gun and ammo, so I put it up for the day and shot pistols.
Factory "hunting" rifle with factory ammo? I have one that will do it, and I have a friend who has one that will do it, but those are pretty rare.
I will admit, I have never been able to do it with a .22LR rifle yet, but not giving up.
Is doing your part mean aiming left when the bullet's gonna shoot right?
I once shot 5 rounds at 1000 yards that landed inside a 2" extreme spread group. Using aperture sights. All were called up to 5 or more inches in all directions from points of impact. Therefore, that 5 shot group's extreme spread was actually 10 inches, or more. That's the reality of "doing one's part."