Students at Calif. College ban Pledge of Allegiance

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contender6030

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061110/...fe_pledge_dc_3

Students at Calif. College ban Pledge of Allegiance
By Dan Whitcomb
Thu Nov 9, 8:42 PM ET


LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Student leaders at a California college have touched off a furor by banning the Pledge of Allegiance at their meetings, saying they see no reason to publicly swear loyalty to God and the U.S. government.


The move by Orange Coast College student trustees, the latest clash over patriotism and religion in American schools, has infuriated some of their classmates -- prompting one young woman to loudly recite the pledge in front of the board on Wednesday night in defiance of the rule.

"America is the one thing I'm passionate about and I can't let them take that away from me," 18-year-old political science major Christine Zoldos told Reuters.

"The fact that they have enough power to ban one of the most valued traditions in America is just horrible," Zoldos said, adding she would attend every board meeting to salute the flag.

The move was lead by three recently elected student trustees, who ran for office wearing revolutionary-style berets and said they do not believe in publicly swearing an oath to the American flag and government at their school. One student trustee voted against the measure, which does not apply to other student groups or campus meetings.

The ban follows a 2002 ruling by a federal appeals court in San Francisco that said forcing school children to recite the pledge was unconstitutional because of the phrase "under God." The U.S. Supreme Court struck down the ruling on procedural grounds but left the door open for another challenge.

"That ('under God') part is sort of offensive to me," student trustee Jason Bell, who proposed the ban, told Reuters. "I am an atheist and a socialist, and if you know your history, you know that 'under God' was inserted during the McCarthy era and was directly designed to destroy my ideology."

Bell said the ban largely came about because the trustees didn't want to publicly vow loyalty to the American government before their meetings. "Loyalty ought to be something the government earns through performance, not through reciting a pledge," he said.

Martha Parham, a spokeswoman for the Coast Community College District, said her office had no standing on the student board and took no position on the flag salute ban.

"If their personal belief is that they don't want to say the Pledge of Allegiance, the district certainly isn't going to dictate what they do," she said.

More than 28,000 students attend the community college, located in conservative Orange County, California, south of Los Angeles.
 
It was written by a worship-the-state socialist anyway. Why chant it like a bunch of little Hitler youth drones?

;)
 
For once, I agree with Heist. I always found something creepy about the pledge chant. I'm sticking with the national anthem though!!:D
 
"Under God" was only added to the pledge in the 50's because a few moronic, racist, "dixi-crats" and conservatives wanted to pander to the Jesus crowd.

I have always been irrritated by this and have always stayed silent during that portion when the pledge was being recited.

I guess these kids feel the same way, but just staying silent during that segment was not good enough for them.

I respect that.
 
Oh come on....they are college students. They know everything and of course will change the world when they graduate.

Problem is, the first course you take after graduating, Earn a Living 100...is not graded on a curve. Most of them will learn the hard way, working shifts at Mickey D's.:D
 
Liberals conversion

The day liberal college students begin their transformation from liberal to conservative usually begins when they graduate college and begin to work full time and are actually on their own, paying rent and buying their own groceries. The get their first checks and keep noticing these "Deductions" on their paystub and begin to question what all these "Deductions" are for. That's when their indoctrinated brains begin to question truth, was their "Professor" telling them the truth? Was their professor perhaps exaggerating a few things? Why do I have to pay 1/2 of my earnings to these "Deductions"? Wow, these credit cards sure add up quick! How come all these poor victims my professors always talked about are not working like me? Why don't they have to work, for what excuse again? They get free what? Wait a minute, I have to pay full price but these "victims" get free admission and because of what, they get preferrence and I don't? I thought I was on their side? Now, I am the oppressor? This doesn't make sense. How much do my liberal brothers and sisters want to raise my taxes? I already pay 50%?, I think this is enough, if not just a little bit too much. Wait a minute! I work and a bunch of freeloaders are calling themselves "victims" and living off working people like me?! Wait a minute, I think these "victims" are actually the problem. Republican party huh? They might not be so bad afterall. Sign me up!
 
jkk-
Brilliant!

These campus stunts don't tend to upset me too much for the reasons you articulate. Besides, in a misguided way, these kids are refusing indoctrination to the "My Government Right or Wrong" camp, by questioning what they see as a mantra. Not necessarily a bad thing.

"If you are a conservative when you are young, you don't have a heart. If you are a liberal when you are old, you don't have a brain." Author Unknown

It's a Right of Passage.
Rich
 
..I remember another 'generation' that was going to change the world when they were in charge..they are mostly in charge of the world now...how are they doing?...(read all the headline news from local, national, & world)...:( :mad:
 
All:

When I was in the eigth-grade in 1969, I too refused to say the pledge of allegiance as a protest of America's foreign policy in Vietnam.

The following year, my brother was killed in the war.

Considering we lost that one and my brother died in vain, I guess I knew more about foreign policy than the adults running the country at that time.

I have no regrets and history has vindicated my position,

Kowboy
 
The "Big Deal" is that "back in the day" (with the exception of the Vietnam Era), pride in our Government ran comparatively high. That was before Politicians came completely out of the closet and made it clear that they consider themselves a separate and distinct class from the rest of us. Just look at their yearly pay raises, pensions and benefits.

Today, skepticism about .gov runs high, and with good reason. But don't confuse that with lack of Patriotism. These kids have made that mistake in the reverse: the Pledge is a pledge to the Flag, to the country, not to its politicians. They have the right idea, in being skeptical, but the wrong target. The Flag is not the enemy.

Rich
 
""Under God" was only added to the pledge in the 50's because a few moronic, racist, "dixi-crats" and conservatives wanted to pander to the Jesus crowd."

:rolleyes:

I didn't know the Knights of Columbus were moronic, racist, dixie-crat conservatives. I bet you didn't either.

And now, the real story...

"In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge" - from a short history of the Pledge

Knights of Columbus International headquarters, located in New Haven, Connecticut.

Must be SOUTH New Haven, right?

John
 
We had a New Haven, an East Haven, a West Haven and a North Haven. But, nope, no South Haven. :D

John-
Shows you just how ignorant I am. Grew up in New Haven. I vaguely remember when they were building that huge KoC building and parking garage. I never knew it was Internat'l HQ. Guess I must have just assumed it was a wealthy KoC Chapter.

Thanks for the history I should have known.
Rich
 
"That ('under God') part is sort of offensive to me," student trustee Jason Bell, who proposed the ban, told Reuters. "I am an atheist and a socialist, and if you know your history, you know that 'under God' was inserted during the McCarthy era and was directly designed to destroy my ideology."

You can bet dollars to donuts that when mummy and dahddeee give this spolied brat money to spend at college he spends it gleefully despite the words In God We trust. I too am a non-believer, well at least an agnostic if not outright atheist, yet I have no problem with those words.
 
y'all seem to think that all college students are the children of rich parents and that all professors are even bringing up these "liberal" issues. utter bull. many college students pay their own way through school, many fully understand what those five figures in student loans mean and typically the only times you'll have professors touching on these subjects are when it relates to the material

You don't have math professors telling students that socialism is cool. You don't have history professors telling students that the soviet union was a happy playground (though I'm sure some people complain that they bring up the slaughter of natives because well....it happened). You don't have neuroscience professors telling students that there's no higher being.

Many college students know full well what it is to support themselves and work in the real world. Those that end up unable to use their degrees are usually the unmotivated ones to begin with and would be equally as unsuccessful working on a farm or construction site.

Why is there such a hatred of higher education and among conservatives? Does everyone think that college professors are nothing but the stereotypes of the 70s? How many of y'all complaining about these "liberal" professors have actually spent some time in school?

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming that folks without college are not intelligent or even uneducated. I realize as much as anyone else that college is not for everyone and that many people are most certainly capable of succeeding in life without it. I spent a number of years surviving that "real world" without college education and to be honest the only reason I even busted my ass to get a degree was for the military.

But I can't fathom why there's so much hatred and angst about this. I came across very few professors that even expressed their opinions enough to know their political stance. A number of my forensics profs were former cops, some supported the RKBA while others didn't. I had an evolutionary biology professor that was and still is a devout Catholic. I had an econ teacher that loved socialism and I know a forensic psych professor that I work with who is proud to be the biggest capitalist pig he knows (and his opinions mirror mine to a T).

Why the hate? Why the anger towards higher education? Oh, they're being indoctrinated? Same thing happens in a church or in boy scouts or in the ymca or in a karate class or in any other aspect of life where the goal is to learn something. The myth of "liberal professors" indoctrinating youth to hate America and capitalism holds about as much water as the myths regarding global warming.
 
Why the hate? Why the anger towards higher education?
Anger = hate? We haven't seen you on one of the nightly talking head political commentaries, have we?

Hate is one of the most over-used words in television politics today. Some of us are changing the language to prove a point.
 
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