Striker Pistols?

[Darkstar888]

Got me Bart. I've never owned/fired the AS version. I did own the DAO (a first generation P-990) and have dry-fired a QA (yuck). The -990 went away when I picked up my first Glock (Gen 3 G17) and the timer showed how much faster and more accurate I was with it.



Honestly, the earlier frame style doesn't stay put in my hand when firing. The PPQ is almost as sticky as the texture Glock uses for the Gen 4 frames. Also, there's a mold line in the bottom of the trigger guard on the ski jump (1st generation Walther frames) that I have to attack with sandpaper, lest it irritate my trigger finger.



Granted, I'm not a huge DA/SA fan, but I think if Walther gave us the AS trigger in the PPQ frame texture, it would be a viable alternative to the HK P-30.

Gotta get acTalon rubber grip decal for the P99. Adds the perfect texture without adding any extra bulk. Looks great too. Best $17.99 I spent.

 

[Darkstar888]

They have that in Europe... the P99 looks just like the PPQ does here.

Yes in Poland they had developed the P99 RAD. IT is the frame the PPQ was born of but not the SA trigger of the Q.

 

[Fishbed77]

Fishbed, I thought the P99AS and PPQ seemed the same for the actual sear release. But I like the DA/SA of the first so I sold the second.

The feel is much the same (both excellent), but the single-action pull of the P99AS is about 1 lb lighter than the constant-action pull of the PPQ (4.5 lb vs 5.5 lb).

 

[Tactical Jackalope]

I naturally prefer hammer fired guns.

If I'm going with a striker and I've always had striker fired guns, I'm sticking with Glock.

 

[Stargater53]

I wonder why people prefer hammer-fired autos over striker-fired ones?

And what constitutes "better" anyway?

The purpose of any handgun is to throw a projectile, via pressure caused by fast burning powder, at a target precisely, repeatedly and reliably at least 30,000 times without parts replacement. But where does craftsmanship, beauty, balance and weight come in?

For example, I like knives. All knives, but especially pocket knives. I have two right here. One's a CRKT M21-04. It's beautiful, strong, but a bit heavy and the clip is too far down the knife in my opinion. The other is a Cold Steel 2016 Voyager. It's not all that beautiful, has a strong polymer handle (opposed to the CRKT's brushed aluminum handle). The blade length is the same on both knives and the steel is the same on both, yet the cheaper Voyager has a substantially stronger locking system, is lighter and is virtually unbreakable. But even though the Voyager is a stronger, better knife in all practical respects, the more expensive CRKT exudes a class the Voyager lacks.

Getting back to guns, most, if given the choice, would choose a stainless S&W 66 revolver over a stainless Ruger Security-Six, even though the Ruger is in many respects a far better gun. But if things turned ugly in this country and you had to pack a bug out bag and bug out, possibly forever, most people would choose the Voyager knife and the Ruger pistol because the other, nicer features wouldn't be important when it came to performance.

If I had to bug out, though, I'd pick my S&W 659 over my Glock just because I wouldn't be able to help it, even though the Glock is lighter and possibly more resilient than the Smith. So where does one draw the line?

 

[pblanc]

When reholstering a hammer-fired pistol the hammer can be ridden with the thumb to assure that no foreign object that made its way into the trigger guard can fire the pistol.

 

[Darkstar888]

Same can be done with the thumb on the rear of the Walther P99's and PPS's striker cocking indicator. If it begins to protrude the trigger is being pulled

 

[Worc]

For me the HK VP9, Sig P320, and Walther PPQ along with the Steyr M9-A1/L9-A1 would be the top tier. They all have very good triggers that can be said to be best in class. They all have great ergonomics, accuracy, and reliability. The HK VP9 and Walther PPQ are fully ambidextrous.

 

[tahunua001]

Glock 17

my personal opinion is that it is way overrated in today's day and age. it was great in the 80s when it actually brought the polymer striker fired genre into the main stream, however today there are way too many other offerings to justify a collection full of glocks they are good guns, but reliability has slipped in recent years and they seem to be a one trick pony at this point.

SW MP9

I hate it. the triggers are absolute garbage. otherwise, they look cool and ergos are pretty decent. the M&P shield triggers are a little better though so not all M&Ps fall into that category.

Walther PPQ M2

the only gun I've ever picked up with a tirgger worse than the M&P was a PPQ. it was heavy, spongey and never seemed to reset or break in the same place twice. I brought that little experience to the board and ended up with 20 fan boys telling me to go buy a hi point if I couldn't handle a real gun.

HK VP9

I have no experience with that one. I toyed around with the idea for a long time and even priced out a few but the cost to have my local FFLs special order was way too high for a curiosity purchase. they seem like a neat gun but I have to wonder how much of the price tag is just because of the H&K on the side.

Sig 320 Carry

no experience with that one personally, but every other sig I've ever handled has been exemplary. the triggers are awesome, fit and finish is great, and they are definitely high quality handguns. the price tags on most however make sigs a bit too cost prohibitive for my liking.

FNS9

this was another one of the fanboy guns that I could never get into. I like a lot of FN guns but the FNS is in the wrong price bracket in my opinion. I compared it side by side with a ton of other pistols, the fit and finish compared to other guns of the same general price was complete junk, it was more in line with the guns that were priced $150 lower. trigger was also not that great(noticing a pattern with how I rate my opinions on guns?)

Ruger SR9

underrated pistols, but require a little work beforehand. I have owned 2 SR9s, one compact, and the other was their economy model. the compact was my daily carry for about 2 years and still gets used for that purpose every once in a blue moon but mostly nowadays I loan it out to a sibling if we're heading out into kitty cat territory. the 9E is definitely a rougher cousin but is fully functional. the little work beforehand, and I'm not recommending that anyone else does this, is that I've removed the mahg disconnects in both of my guns. if you go to the ruger forums most failures that people have are because of improperly seated mags and I really don't need that hassle in my life when I'm firing under duress. for the price range they are in though, they are extremely hard to beat.

Springfield XDM

ok now time to step up on my soap box...
ok maybe I'll forego that this time. they are without a doubt my favorite line of handguns. the triggers are not great but better than most other service pistol striker/poly framed hanguns out there. the ergonomics are perfect for me. the ammo capacity is higher than anyone else in everything except 45ACP. I have never once encountered a failure that was not ammunition related. I am more accurate with most xdms than any other non-competition model handguns. lastly, they handle recoil way better than most people give them credit for.

out of your list the only gun I would even compare to the XDM would likely be the sig, but without personal experience with that particular model, I would have to say that the xdm is the first one you should look at buying. last on my list would be the walther with the M&P nipping at its heels.

 

[TunnelRat]

the only gun I've ever picked up with a tirgger worse than the M&P was a PPQ. it was heavy, spongey and never seemed to reset or break in the same place twice. I brought that little experience to the board and ended up with 20 fan boys telling me to go buy a hi point if I couldn't handle a real gun.

that's the complete opposite of every description of the PPQ I have ever heard, including the two I owned. I don't even like them that much and this description is just bizarre to me.

I toyed around with the idea for a long time and even priced out a few but the cost to have my local FFLs special order was way too high for a curiosity purchase. they seem like a neat gun but I have to wonder how much of the price tag is just because of the H&K on the side.

They can be had for ~$520 online if you look. They're not nearly as expensive as other HKs.
http://www.gunbuyer.com/p-60008-hk-vp9-9mm-409-15rd-black-m700009a5.aspx

the price tags on most however make sigs a bit too cost prohibitive for my liking.

Again like HK the SIG striker pistols aren't that expensive.
https://www.slickguns.com/search/apachesolr_search/sig%2Bp320

 

[Darkstar888]

I've also never heard of or experienced that with the PPQ. Nutnfancy said it was the best striker fired trigger he ever felt. And he has shot them all. Hickok45 45 agreed.

 

[marine6680]

Yeah, must have been a fluke with that PPQ... Not discounting what was said, its just not my experience with them at all.

Unless there is a mix up with the P99, with the DA/SA pull.


The fit and finish on my FNS is also very good, up there with other quality striker pistols. I got mine for under $500 too. Triggers are Glock like, but otherwise decent.

 

[tahunua001]

I understand that prices have come down a bit but no one in my area carries them so I have the option of buying a VP9 online for $520 plus $30 shipping and $15 FFL, or I can have my FFls special order it for $590, either way that's a lot of money for a pistol that's being purchased sight unseen and without so much as a dry firing.

and nope, no confusion, it was definitely a PPQ.

 

[TunnelRat]

Actually gunbuyer.com is free shipping for firearms. So that's $519 + the transfer fee. My point is that the HK and SIG striker options really aren't that much more expensive than the competition.

 

[marine6680]

The VP9 feels very similar to a PPQ in the hand.

The trigger is different though, but it is a good striker trigger.

 

[DHart]

The M&P is right there at the top of the rankings, in my view. The ergonomics and feel in the hand are superb. The only quibble may be that some of the triggers would benefit from a sear (and possibly striker block) replacement, but that is easy to do and not expensive. And some of the M&Ps have great triggers from the get-go.

I have four M&Ps now. The M&P40 full size has an awesome trigger from the get-go, and getting even better with use. Same with one of my two M&P40Cs. The other M&P40C is a little heavier, but not bad by any means. I don't think it needs anything that shooting a few hundred rounds won't do. And my M&P45C had a very heavy trigger (8+ lbs.) which I didn't like at all. BUT, simply replacing the sear and striker block made an instant and absolutely wonderful transformation of the trigger to a very nice 4.5#. Now, it is as nice a trigger as a striker fired pistol can have.

So, for those who may find an M&P trigger not as nice as they might like, know that you can very easily and inexpensively replace the sear (and perhaps the striker block) and have a wonderful result. Some people think that a complete Apex trigger "kit" replacement involving springs and a new trigger is necessary to improve an M&P trigger, but this is not the case. If you want to improve any M&P trigger, just replace the sear and see how you like it. It's likely that will make all the difference you desire - along with shooting a few hundred rounds.

It is easy to have an absolutely awesome trigger pull on an M&P, so trigger pull feel should not be a significant factor in anyone's decision with regard to buying an M&P.

M&P40 - my most favorite defense pistol, out of a field of many awesome pistols


After giving close consideration to M&P, PPQ, VP, and P320, I bought three of these models; M&Ps, VP, and P320. I didn't buy the PPQ due to not liking the feel of the grip as much and slightly sharper recoil feel. And the trigger take-up on the PPQ was longer than I prefer. I sold the VP due to the trough on the bottom of the trigger guard irritating my finger.

So, what remains (aside from my Glocks and 1911s, which are mostly relegated to the safe these days) are the M&Ps and the P320s. I have four of each of them now.

I absolutely love the M&Ps and the P320s and rank them neck and neck, with just a very slight nod going to the M&P due to having the best grip feel for me. I have added Talon rubber grip accessories to ALL of my polymer pistols, as they significantly improve the feel over bare polymer on all of the striker fired pistols, including the Glocks.

 

[tahunua001]

ok I'm not meaning to turn into the thread troll here but I have several questions to follow that review.

what criteria do you use when rating a trigger? is it strictly weight or is weight an end-all be-all component to a great trigger?

if all of the M&Ps have great triggers minus a little weight, how are you overcoming the lack of a tactile reset point? some people claim that if you need a tactile reset point that you are not training properly, however I find those statements to be nothing more than self justifications to continue recommending guns with poor triggers(this comment is not directed at you or any one user in particular).

does simply replacing the sear add a tactile reset point or just give a crisper break?

I am not maligning you at all, and we all have a favorite handgun out there where no one model is the definite best-ever winner, but there is a reason that over a 1/4 of the M&P threads on the S&W forums relate to trigger replacements and the last time I checked, the complete APEX replacement was still the most heavily recommended modification to the M&P.

 

[DHart]

Tahunua... I don't know about anyone else, but there isn't any reset "problem" in my experience. Nothing that needs to be "overcome" for me. "Self justification"??? The triggers work, feel, and reset just fine for my needs. I've never had a trigger reset issue with any of dozens of various semi-auto pistols that I have/had. Whatever problems someone else may have with trigger reset hasn't affected my shooting at all. And I don't tolerate crappy triggers, either. Perhaps I'm just a clueless bumpkin who doesn't know how bad off he is.

As for M&Ps, I have four now, M&P40C since 2007, M&P40 since 2011, M&P45C since 2012, and Another M&P40C since a month ago. The only modification I've needed is replacing the sear and striker block on the M&P45C. I'm a very happy camper with the M&Ps.

I think a lot of people read that others are using the complete Apex Trigger kit and they simply think they need that, as well. I wouldn't recommend anyone doing that unless they tried a sear replacement and that wasn't enough for them. You can replace just whatever parts you wish to, over time if you wish to. And, a lot of people make modifications to guns that aren't really necessary anyway, just because they think they might "need" it, because someone else did the same, and/or they like to tweak. M&P triggers are variable from sample to sample, so don't think that they're all the same. Take each pistol on a case-by-case basis.

HERE is the point: there is no reason to avoid an M&P that you would like to have simply if the trigger isn't your favorite right out of the box.

I certainly would not buy, nor avoid buying, a pistol simply because of the trigger itself. The trigger is but one of several aspects of any pistol that contributes to the decision to buy a pistol. I liked the trigger and grip on the HK VP I bought, but the trough on the bottom of the trigger guard irritated my trigger finger terribly, in short order, so I sold it.

The trigger on an M&P can easily be made to be whatever YOU want it to be, taken on a gun-by-gun basis. Considering what most of us spend on ammunition over the course of a month or two, the cost of replacing a few parts to obtain just the trigger you want is no big deal! After the money I spent tweaking 1911s over the last couple of decades, money spent on tweaking polymer pistols is practically nothing. All of my Glocks benefitted from lighter connectors and fluff-and-buffs, as well.

 

[TunnelRat]

I am not maligning you at all, and we all have a favorite handgun out there where no one model is the definite best-ever winner, but there is a reason that over a 1/4 of the M&P threads on the S&W forums relate to trigger replacements and the last time I checked, the complete APEX replacement was still the most heavily recommended modification to the M&P.

I've owned 6+ M&Ps, going back to 2011 and spread throughout then and end of 2015. The first one I owned had zero tactile reset. The last in early 2015 (I think) had a very pronounced reset. They've changed the stock sear since the first versions as well as the slide release levers so that they now push out on the trigger bar to provide some feedback. I still think there are better stock triggers (the P320 and PPQ are IMO better stock) but the M&Ps have come a long way. I have installed APEX parts in all of them and honestly for the last one I owned while there was still a difference, it was pretty slight at that point (I do still like the APEX polymer trigger, not the kit just the trigger piece itself, as I prefer it over the hinged trigger).

Of course all of this is subjective, like most opinions about triggers, but people that have owned them over the years will generally agree that positive changes have been made.

 

[O4L]

I'm very fond of the M&P line.

I've owned several and never had an issue with the stock triggers. Always been able to hit what I'm aiming at.