Striker-fired,,,…safest?

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At rest, the striker fired DA/SA P99AS too.

But like the P99, the P7 recocks the striker each shot.


I don't disagree with you MarkCO. But it does take the sear to be out of spec and the firing pin block has to be broken or not functioning. Since a firing pin block moves away when the trigger is pulled, I would imagine a stuck or broken firing pin block is in the safe position more likely than not?
 
I was trained to take a firing grip in the holster, so the P7 made me nervous because that left me with a cocked gun, 3 lb trigger pull in the holster.
Now people think nothing unusual of a tuned Glock etc with 2 lb trigger in the holster.

An old article on development of the P38 said there was a prototype with the safest action Walther could devise. It was literally Fail Safe, if anything went wrong, the gun could not be made to fire. The General Staff disapproved on the grounds that it might protect against inadvertent discharge, but it could also leave their man disarmed. They accepted a bit of risk in the production guns for a more dependable weapon.
 
One additional plug for the P99AS, your finger pushing the button is part of the decocker mechanism. The decocker can't fail if the gun decocks to traditional double action.
 
I don't disagree with you MarkCO. But it does take the sear to be out of spec and the firing pin block has to be broken or not functioning.

Yes, exactly. So, things that can "be blamed" if they fire without a trigger press. 1. Lack of maintenance and/or 2. Improper modification that bypasses the striker block plunger. The thing that is gray, is that most people assume that the striker fired pistols that came after the Glock have the same type of safety and durability. They don't. I have not seen evidence that the XD sears wear (relatively) as fast as the M&Ps. Stoning the sears can of course remove surface hardness and accelerate the wear. In a Glock, it just can't occur. When the cruciform wears out, you get a dead trigger, and that is 100s of thousands of activations.
 
Being a simple guy, I try to keep terms simple. That being said, some blanket or umbrella terms cover more than some folks think.

One of those is Double Action.

I think GLock intentionally avoids being classed as a double action, calling it a "safe action" but as I see it, it IS a double action trigger.

Its just not the same kind of DA trigger as 99% of other DA trigger guns.

A double action trigger does two things (two = double). It COCKS and fires the cocked gun. A single action trigger does one thing, it fires the cocked gun.

IF pulling the trigger cocks the gun, then fires it, I don't care if it cocks the gun from full rest or from some "preloaded" position, its doing the two things it needs to do to be a "double action".

How is that complicated??
 
But it doesn't have "double strike capability" which is seldom needed with good fresh ammo, but it is a distinguishing feature of a conventional DA/SA.
 
A true double action requires nothing more than a pull of the trigger to fire the gun, assuming it has a round in the chamber. Can the same be said of a Glock, ask the guy who just experienced a misfire with one.
 
The Glock is not a double action. It is a "1.5" action maybe if you want to try to keep in line with single, double, DAO, etc. S&Ws and XDs are maybe 1.02 actions. :)
 
Others already pointed out that Glock, unlike most traditional double actions, cannot fire a subsequent shot if the previous cartridge fails to fire because the pistol needs the motion of the slide to cock the striker that initial amount.

Earlier I mentioned some hammer fired systems that use motion of the slide to result in lower trigger weights, specifically HK’s LEM and SIG’s DAK. This is one area where those systems are like traditional double action. If a shot fails, those systems can still fire the subsequent shot, albeit with a trigger pull notably heavier than is normal for those systems.


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I was just thinking on this with the hammer fired P226 or P30.

The "shake" to move a sear and discharge is a problem with a broken/stuck firing pin block them too.

Unless it's a true restrike double action, any gun is going to have this concept of "one less" safety feature.
 
There is a reason for the phrase, Glock Butt and Glock Leg.,

A DA Revolver in D was safe, very few had safeties.

The DA Semi Auto copied that. Best of both worlds, D for fast and S for precise shooting.

Glock and the striker types are a half assed in between D and S
 
RC20 said:
99.999999999999999% of us are not Seals

99.999999999999999% of Glock users don't shoot themselves in the butt or leg either, yet that never stops people from pointing out that negligent discharges do happen with Glocks.
 
wild cat mccane said:
I was just thinking on this with the hammer fired P226 or P30.

The "shake" to move a sear and discharge is a problem with a broken/stuck firing pin block them too.

Unless it's a true restrike double action, any gun is going to have this concept of "one less" safety feature.

That's only true if those pistols have enough energy in the hammer spring, as in they have been cocked to some degree. On a DA/SA pistol that's not true unless the hammer is cocked. On the DAK and LEM variants while the hammer has some pretension, the hammer still is resting mostly forward. I don't think they have enough of a potential arc to actually detonate a primer (it's an interesting question because I've never seen that addressed anywhere). Similar to say a Glock, the degree of pre-tensioning can matter in the case where other safeties fail.

I think there's a difference between theoretical safety and practical safety. If you take a fully-cocked, striker-fired pistol that has a properly functioning drop safety as well as a properly functioning firing pin/striker block, the chances of both of those failing leading to a discharge are quite small. While MarkCO has seen it happen, I don't believe he's arguing it’s common. Whether that additional degree of mechanical safety matters to you is a question. On a pistol that might be adopted at a department level where budgets are tight and the pistols will likely see years of service and varying degrees of inspection by department level armorers this may become more important to you. While people often also use the "carried a lot, shot a little" adage when it comes to police firearms, they are generally at least used in qualification, which if we're honest is something not always true of private citizens (keeping in mind that those of us on this forum that shoot to the extent we do are the exceptions rather than the rule when it comes to overall gun ownership). I've personally bought a few police trade-in firearms; most of which were in very good condition, but one could have gotten someone killed had it actually been needed because of a lack of repair (and that was a pump action shotgun, something people often consider infallible, that had come out of a cruiser). Again, in those situations a pistol like a Glock has some additional appeal with its added safety.

I end this by saying I primarily carry/use a Glock. I also have a P320, VP9, PDP, P10C, etc. Even being the person that just wrote the above, I do like that a Glock striker isn't fully tensioned and I honestly don't find the resulting trigger pull problematic, even compared to the excellent triggers on the other pistols I own.
 
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I think you're exactly right TunnelRat.

I think there is technically correct there are three safety features of the Glock trigger system and two on others (both present on Glock too) might be more theoretically important than practically likely to be a problem.

That said, I am looking for a Austrian (PA sku) Gen5 G19 with night sights right at this moment. My first glock. Exciting. :)
 
Lowest bidder, so what?


While I agree that adoption by one military unit or another is not the definitive word when it comes to a particular firearm, my own limited experience in working with people in similar units is that at that level it isn’t solely about lowest bidder. Those units have notably more discretion in procurement. Case in point, the Navy SEALs also use the HK45 Compact. If the goal was the cheapest pistol in 45 Auto, there are a number of options cheaper than the HK45 Compact.

The Glock 19 is a reliable, lightweight, compact pistol. While there are a number of reliable pistols these days, even today in terms of overall size and weight Glock still edges out a number of competitors. Add in the ease of sourcing Glock magazines, parts, sights, and other accessories and it makes sense why it might have appeal to people deploying in various locations around the world. Glock pistols are also common enough in security forces that the presence of a Glock itself doesn’t immediately signal the presence of the US military.


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Navy SEALs adopted the Gen4 Glock 19. Striker fired and uber-safe.
All you need to know right there.
Lowest bidder, so what?
:rolleyes: Wrongo, bobo.

Navy SEALS can choose whatever sidearm suits them, "lowest" bid or not.

* * * my own limited experience in working with people in similar units is that at that level it isn’t solely about lowest bidder. Those units have notably more discretion in procurement. Case in point, the Navy SEALs also use the HK45 Compact. If the goal was the cheapest pistol in 45 Auto, there are a number of options cheaper than the HK45 Compact.
Correct.
 
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