loose_holster_dan
New member
I'm with you buddy. i had a j-frame for pocket carry for awhile, but i was so bad with it, that i just sold it. i much prefer to iwb carry anyways.
Straying Away Fom the J Frame Snubs
- Thread starter Dragline45
- Start date
I switched from J-frames for ccw to a Colt Cobra snub-nose several years ago. I still have a couple of older J-frames but I like the extra round the Colt offers in a revolver being employed for self-defense duties that weighs the same as an Airweight and is pretty close size-wise (the cylinder diameter of the Airweight is 1.309; the Cobra measures 1.400-a difference of about 1/10th of an inch).
warningshot
New member
Hanging Chad.
I know more than a few happy CCWer whom don't at least currently own a 'J' frame even if he CCed something else. But I say this:
Colt Detective Specials, and especially S&W 2 inch K frames, put the 'D' in SD revolvers. There are just too many war stories out there ( and I just love reading about war stories ) with endings that include the BD walking or running away with J frame lead-based punch holes in him.
And you were wondering why Emergency Room and automobile body shop personel are required by law to immidiately report bullet holes.
I know more than a few happy CCWer whom don't at least currently own a 'J' frame even if he CCed something else. But I say this:
Colt Detective Specials, and especially S&W 2 inch K frames, put the 'D' in SD revolvers. There are just too many war stories out there ( and I just love reading about war stories ) with endings that include the BD walking or running away with J frame lead-based punch holes in him.
And you were wondering why Emergency Room and automobile body shop personel are required by law to immidiately report bullet holes.
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engineer88
New member
I own and shoot both semi and revolvers, and on a given day I might be carrying one of each. 
I have had one revolver issue over my meager ten years of gun ownership. My model 64-5 had the ejector rod back out. Lock-tite fixed it but I would never trust the gun to carry after that, which is ok as I acquired it for range use for new shooters. I own over a dozen other revolvers (Ruger and S&W mostly) that have never failed. Two of these are in my carry rotation and I trust my life to them (model 638 and an SP101) .
As for automatics, I have had magazine issues that turned them into bolt actions, and I watched my brother's $1,100± Para Ord have the front half of the slide break in half and fall off. That said I have several autos in my rotation (P32, G36, G19 and an LC9).
Mechanical things fail, parts break. I carry a BUG for this and other reasons.
Back to the opening post. Whatever gun you shoot best, I say go with that. You need the ability to confidently make shots without thinking, since under stress you may not have your full faculties at your disposal. Seems like a good personal decision to me based on operator experience.
If I may make a few suggestions, don't forget about the Milsurp stuff. The following are some examples of that as well as some others you may want to look at:
Feg Ap9 or standard model, I had one and wish I still did.
CZ82/83 a fine pistol
Makarov (pistol not cartridge)
HK makes some fine SA/DA's as does CZ and Beretta
I think as time goes by we nail down what we like and it sounds like you are defining your preferences well. Good luck with it!
I have had one revolver issue over my meager ten years of gun ownership. My model 64-5 had the ejector rod back out. Lock-tite fixed it but I would never trust the gun to carry after that, which is ok as I acquired it for range use for new shooters. I own over a dozen other revolvers (Ruger and S&W mostly) that have never failed. Two of these are in my carry rotation and I trust my life to them (model 638 and an SP101) .
As for automatics, I have had magazine issues that turned them into bolt actions, and I watched my brother's $1,100± Para Ord have the front half of the slide break in half and fall off. That said I have several autos in my rotation (P32, G36, G19 and an LC9).
Mechanical things fail, parts break. I carry a BUG for this and other reasons.
Back to the opening post. Whatever gun you shoot best, I say go with that. You need the ability to confidently make shots without thinking, since under stress you may not have your full faculties at your disposal. Seems like a good personal decision to me based on operator experience.
If I may make a few suggestions, don't forget about the Milsurp stuff. The following are some examples of that as well as some others you may want to look at:
Feg Ap9 or standard model, I had one and wish I still did.
CZ82/83 a fine pistol
Makarov (pistol not cartridge)
HK makes some fine SA/DA's as does CZ and Beretta
I think as time goes by we nail down what we like and it sounds like you are defining your preferences well. Good luck with it!
warningshot
New member
Long live the Smith & Wesson J frames.
thibaultfelix40
New member
I love J frame
Why do I love J frames? The big reason may be because for many years I had a s&w model 34 kit gun as my only handgun. I put a lot of cheap long rifles through it. It went through a few sticky situations with me. I still have it and have added some more. I like them. What other reason do I need?
Why do I love J frames? The big reason may be because for many years I had a s&w model 34 kit gun as my only handgun. I put a lot of cheap long rifles through it. It went through a few sticky situations with me. I still have it and have added some more. I like them. What other reason do I need?
For those who have never had revolvers fail, some personal examples where I have had that very thing happen:
1) Squib load in a .44, very bad day. (But wait, you say! That's an ammo malfunction. True, but then again so are many auto failures.)
2) Improper OAL on factory round, I can't remember the brand, bought at gun shop along with the Super Blackhawk which the over-length round managed to lock up tight when the cylinder rotated. (But that's another ammo problem! True, but how often do I hear how revolvers, unlike autos, will feed anything?)
3) S&W Model 28, bought used, seemed to run ok during dry fire checks. Note that I had not yet read Jim March's revolver checkout... With actual ammo in the cylinder, the gun would run into timing issues where the cylinder could not be brought fully into battery. (But that gun was used, and probably abused, you say! How many times do people in this forum say, "Buy a used S&W revolver for the same money as that POS - fill in the blank - auto"?)
4) S&W Model 18, after a few hundred rounds, extractor star gummed up enough to be nearly impossible to push back.
You get the idea. Things can happen.
Note also that the S&W triple lock types proved too dirt and crud sensitive for combat operations, while the 1911 (old Mil-Spec) kept chugging right along.
1) Squib load in a .44, very bad day. (But wait, you say! That's an ammo malfunction. True, but then again so are many auto failures.)
2) Improper OAL on factory round, I can't remember the brand, bought at gun shop along with the Super Blackhawk which the over-length round managed to lock up tight when the cylinder rotated. (But that's another ammo problem! True, but how often do I hear how revolvers, unlike autos, will feed anything?)
3) S&W Model 28, bought used, seemed to run ok during dry fire checks. Note that I had not yet read Jim March's revolver checkout... With actual ammo in the cylinder, the gun would run into timing issues where the cylinder could not be brought fully into battery. (But that gun was used, and probably abused, you say! How many times do people in this forum say, "Buy a used S&W revolver for the same money as that POS - fill in the blank - auto"?)
4) S&W Model 18, after a few hundred rounds, extractor star gummed up enough to be nearly impossible to push back.
You get the idea. Things can happen.
Note also that the S&W triple lock types proved too dirt and crud sensitive for combat operations, while the 1911 (old Mil-Spec) kept chugging right along.
- I've never cleaned a new gun I bought before I fired it the first time. Other than a going over to make sure the barrel was clear and the gun functioned, I've always just gone right from the box to the range. The only gun that failed on me was a Kimber & that was a magazine issue. (40 plus years of buying and shooting guns)
- I've never been mugged, robbed at gun point, or assaulted in my 60 years on planet Earth.
- I've never had a tire blow out on me in over 45 years of driving - and - more miles on bald tires (sometimes with the steel belts showing) than I care to admit to.
All of which proves - nothing.
New guns do fail. People do get mugged/robbed. Tires do blow out.
Revolvers do get tied up....even ones that have been well cared for.
- I've never been mugged, robbed at gun point, or assaulted in my 60 years on planet Earth.
- I've never had a tire blow out on me in over 45 years of driving - and - more miles on bald tires (sometimes with the steel belts showing) than I care to admit to.
All of which proves - nothing.
New guns do fail. People do get mugged/robbed. Tires do blow out.
Revolvers do get tied up....even ones that have been well cared for.
Rifleman1952
New member
One other point about the accuracy, or lack-there-of, regarding J-frames. I've tried several different grips on mine, over the years, and found that accuracy and control improved by going with a slightly larger grip. I could never get my little or "pinky" finger on the smaller grips. Once I went with a slightly longer Uncle Mikes rubber grip, I became a much better shot out to 21 feet. The larger grip may take away a little from its ability to conceal, but not as much as you might think. I carry with an inside the pocket holster and my Mod 60 is still not visible, even with the slightly larger grip. For me the trade-off is definitely worth it.
I carry a 642 and probably will until I die. I'm a revolver guy, carried one most of my career in LE.
But revolvers DO LOCK UP. It's normally a case of improper crimping of the bullet that allows the bullet to move forward under recoil.
A couple weeks ago I had my Model 27 lock up in a Pin Shoot. I load on a progressive loader and not paying attention a 38 case got mixed in with my 357 cases. It went through the loading but came out without a crimp. The seating set up caused the 38 to have the same OAL as the 357s so I didn't notice.
While engaging the pins the bullet slid out a bit locking up the cylender. It only took an istant to push the bullet down into the cylinder and case with my little finger allowing it to rotate and be fired.
Lock ups do happen. The trick to preventing lock ups is proper ammo, and/or proper reloading practices.
It you're carrying you snubby for SD, chances are you are carrying factory ammo. Still it needs to be checked. Factory's screw up just like the rest of us.
If you choose a load, get an extra box and shoot it to see how it works in your gun. I was looking for some Factory LSWCs for my 642 and found some Remington. I bought two boxes, one to test, one to carry. 2/3s of the ammo wouldn't fire in my 642. I tried them in my other 38s with the same results.
My only 38 that would shoot them 100% was my Marlin '94 38/357.
Finely found some Winchester LSWCs but bought 3 boxes. Shooting two in my snubby before I would consider carrying it. The two boxes of Winchester fired 100% without a hitch so I figured I'm good to go with the third box.
The point being revolvers will screw up. But if its a good quality revolver, chances are the screw up is do to ammo............not really the ammo, its us shooters for not checking the ammo before we load it in our carry gun.
I screw up reloads too. More then once my primer feeder clogged up and I'd load ammo without primers. Not the guns fault is it?
Nothing wrong with GOOD autos. I have a lot of faith in my Colt 1911s and my Beretta 92 but they are too big. I might want to fire off a gun in my pocket (I carried a snubby as back up in LE, in my Parka pocket). It got cold in Anchorage every now and then and the parka made if difficult to draw my service revolver.
If I'm gonna fire from my coat pocket, I want a revolver. Haven't tried it but I would think the slide going back and forth in a coat pocket would lead to problems.
Nah, I'll stick to my 642 and I'll be careful about any of my carry ammo.
But revolvers DO LOCK UP. It's normally a case of improper crimping of the bullet that allows the bullet to move forward under recoil.
A couple weeks ago I had my Model 27 lock up in a Pin Shoot. I load on a progressive loader and not paying attention a 38 case got mixed in with my 357 cases. It went through the loading but came out without a crimp. The seating set up caused the 38 to have the same OAL as the 357s so I didn't notice.
While engaging the pins the bullet slid out a bit locking up the cylender. It only took an istant to push the bullet down into the cylinder and case with my little finger allowing it to rotate and be fired.
Lock ups do happen. The trick to preventing lock ups is proper ammo, and/or proper reloading practices.
It you're carrying you snubby for SD, chances are you are carrying factory ammo. Still it needs to be checked. Factory's screw up just like the rest of us.
If you choose a load, get an extra box and shoot it to see how it works in your gun. I was looking for some Factory LSWCs for my 642 and found some Remington. I bought two boxes, one to test, one to carry. 2/3s of the ammo wouldn't fire in my 642. I tried them in my other 38s with the same results.
My only 38 that would shoot them 100% was my Marlin '94 38/357.
Finely found some Winchester LSWCs but bought 3 boxes. Shooting two in my snubby before I would consider carrying it. The two boxes of Winchester fired 100% without a hitch so I figured I'm good to go with the third box.
The point being revolvers will screw up. But if its a good quality revolver, chances are the screw up is do to ammo............not really the ammo, its us shooters for not checking the ammo before we load it in our carry gun.
I screw up reloads too. More then once my primer feeder clogged up and I'd load ammo without primers. Not the guns fault is it?
Nothing wrong with GOOD autos. I have a lot of faith in my Colt 1911s and my Beretta 92 but they are too big. I might want to fire off a gun in my pocket (I carried a snubby as back up in LE, in my Parka pocket). It got cold in Anchorage every now and then and the parka made if difficult to draw my service revolver.
If I'm gonna fire from my coat pocket, I want a revolver. Haven't tried it but I would think the slide going back and forth in a coat pocket would lead to problems.
Nah, I'll stick to my 642 and I'll be careful about any of my carry ammo.
I carried a variety of sidearms over a thirty year career in le (the last ten years or so, a Smith Model 6906 auto) and the only time I ever had a firearm fail while shooting our bi-annual qualification course I was shooting a revolver. While firing some double-taps, the Model 13 Smith I was shooting at the time refused to advance the cylinder (I had noticed a "stiffness" in the da cycling a few shots before the revolver finally tied up). It didn't take long to figure out what was wrong-a couple or so flakes of powder had managed to get under the ejector star. It was also realized while sorting out the problem that black powder flakes are harder to discern on a blued gun like the Model 13 than it is to spot on a s/s gun like the Model 65.
Good advice. And check to be sure the gun is clean and properly lubricated, be it a revolver or a semi-auto.
Good advice. And check to be sure the gun is clean and properly lubricated, be it a revolver or a semi-auto.
Its amazing at just how little needs to be under that star to cause problems too. You'd think it was because of a real lack of cleaning and maintenance, but thats not necessarily the case. With the wrong powder (2400 is a real culprit here), just the unburnt remnants of a couple of fired rounds pulled from cylinder with the star raised and the muzzle down, can spoil your day. A full cylinder even quicker.
Besides getting the empties clear of the gun quickly, this is the "other" reason why you dump your empties from a revolver "muzzle up". Any left over, unburnt powder left in the cases falls out with them when they drop, instead of dropping under the star, when the muzzle is down.
I forgot - I have managed to tie up both an N frame and a K frame via the same method: Glove leather on my trigger finger bound between trigger and guard, preventing trigger reset.
Hard to do that, with a 1911. It is something to watch for, with a hinged trigger (revolver or auto).
Goes back to testing the entire carry system (gun, ammo, mags if applicable, holster, belt, gloves...)
With regard to J frames and grips, I have also found I like my 442 better with a larger grip. The CTC grip with padded backstrap is pretty comfortable (but I gave that one to my parents); I currently have an Altamont finger groove setup on my 442, and I like it much better than the factory grips. Little finger rest, palmswell, and just fits my longish hands better.
Hard to do that, with a 1911. It is something to watch for, with a hinged trigger (revolver or auto).
Goes back to testing the entire carry system (gun, ammo, mags if applicable, holster, belt, gloves...)
With regard to J frames and grips, I have also found I like my 442 better with a larger grip. The CTC grip with padded backstrap is pretty comfortable (but I gave that one to my parents); I currently have an Altamont finger groove setup on my 442, and I like it much better than the factory grips. Little finger rest, palmswell, and just fits my longish hands better.
OkieCruffler
New member
I keep trying different CCW's but always end up back with the 357 snubby, my wife carries the same. COM hits at 25yrds are pretty easy but I shoot this little thing alot more than the average I'd wager. I have 2 revolvers that bound up on me pretty often. Both were Dan Wesson's, a 22 and a 357, that I used a razor blade to set the gap with. After about 20 rounds with either it was clean or bind.
I switch between my model 37 S&W airweight and SIG P290 for hideout weapon, (CZ75D Compact as duty.) fact is, I can't stop lovin' that old airweight.
BTW Capt. Fairbairn and Capt. Sykes have a bit to say regarding reliability of autoloaders, and stress the need to thoroughly inspect revolvers every day...almost as if your life depended on it, so to speak.
BTW Capt. Fairbairn and Capt. Sykes have a bit to say regarding reliability of autoloaders, and stress the need to thoroughly inspect revolvers every day...almost as if your life depended on it, so to speak.
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Kinda drifted away from carrying my 637, but just ordered a Black Hills holster for it in the wake of my lovely wife popping for a Beltman carry belt for my birthday ... probably start carrying it again now that it's cooling off and I can cover it ... I had a kydex holster for it but hated it, could not adjust it so the draw was smooth, really had to yank to get it out ...
223 shooter
New member
I'm went the other way as earlier this year I picked up a Smith 642 and find it to be the perfect pocket carry gun. Easy to carry and much lighter than the 380 auto I owned years ago. It is my first J-Frame ever and I'm quite impressed with it.
With the enclosed hammer 642 I could even fire it multiple times from my coat pocket if there was no time to draw , something that I would not be able to do with my old 380 or any semi auto.
I don't worry about the 5 round capacity or carrying multiple reloads.
mrbatchelor
New member
The tent is large. So we can all fit in.