Straying Away Fom the J Frame Snubs

The SIG 230/232 series guns were designed back in the days when Europeans used the .380ACP as a service caliber, not for a pocket pistol.
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Exactly, I have no desire to pocket carry and didn't do so with my J frames either. It makes no sense for me to get a small polymer .380 with no intent to pocket carry it.

Compare a good .380 load to a 158gr +P SWCHP, and the difference is obvious. Switch the .38SPL load to a 110gr or 125gr non+P round, and there's not much difference
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This was pretty much my thinking. I carried a 125gr +p load in my snubs, most on average are listed at 1100 fps. Comparably I can find 100gr .380 loads listed at over 1000 FPS. Now the Sig 232 at a 3.6 inch barrel will be much closer to achieving the listed FPS than the snub with its 1 7/8" barrel. Throw in the fact I shoot the 232 a hell of alot better than the J frame, and have more rounds, to me at least the Sig makes more sense.

I know there's plenty of people out there saying why get the 232 when I can get a PPS or Shield in 9mm in the same size. But once again I prefer DA/SA, and I don't really care for polymer pistols. Not to mention the 232 is of much higher quality, and 20 years down the road when I need parts, the 232 will most likely still be around where the Shield or PPS will very well likely be discontinued. Like I said before if they made the 232 in 9mm or even a single stack 9mm in DA/SA the same size as the 232 I would opt for 9mm. Since they don't ill settle with .380. Before I gave my father my PPK I carried the .380 all the time and felt perfectly OK with it, and if I want to bump up to 9mm I have an SR9C which carries easily.
 
I really like my stainless 232. It's the best looking and one of the most reliable/accurate pistols I own. I too prefer the DA/SA capability. I also have a K9 which offers more power and is about the same size. However, the 232 has a coolness factor that is hard to match.
 
I have 2 LCPs, 2 LC9s and an LCR. I carry a Smith J Frame 638 and trust my life to it. Its extremely accurate, and 5 shots will take care of things for me. Its not a gun you go to war with. Its a gun you conceal and use to protect your life with. For me, that will always be a revolver.
 
I've been shooting revolvers for over 45 years, own 16 at the present time, and have never had one "lock up". Guess I've just been lucky.
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Must be luck, or you dont shoot much. :)

Ive been shooting them about as long as you, maybe a tad longer, and off the top of my head......

Ive had the elector rod back out on a couple of guns while shooting, which locks up the cylinder until you figure out whats going on and why you cant empty or reload the gun.

Ive had the forward side plate screw fall out on a Model 29 S&W, and watched the cylinder fall to the ground on a reload.

Ive had powder fouling and junk get under the extractor star causing the cylinder to bind up and not turn when you tried to pull the trigger or cock the hammer. Improper reloading with a revolver will bite you in the butt in a number of ways, but this is about the worse. If youre one that dumps their empties "muzzle down", you want to learn to reload a revolver properly, or at some point, youll get to experience the above.

Ive had squib rounds jump into the cone and lock the gun up. Ive also had bullets work loose under recoil and tie up a cylinder on a number of occasions.

Ive had fouling on the face of the cylinder tie up a couple of Rugers with a very tight "gap"(within a couple of loadings). Again, making the cylinder about impossible to turn.

I had two S&W 940s break parts internally while shooting them, locking the gun up tight with loaded ammo still in the gun. Both had to be disassembled to get the live rounds out and both were DRT until they went back to S&W. One was the replacement for the other, and both died within 200 rounds of being new.

Im sure if I think on it a bit more, Ill remember a few more, but you get the idea.

While I still shoot a two or three thousand rounds out of my revolvers each year, I shoot a lot more out of my autos. Somewhere around two thousand rounds or so a month. Right now, the Glock 17 I use the most in practice has right around 45000 rounds through it. Other than stoppages intentionally induced with snap caps, or due to the occasional bad reload (mostly due to the rims of brass worn out from being reloaded and cycled to much), I cant ever remember having a stoppage that was the guns fault. The 26 I also practice with on a regular basis, is headed towards 30000 rounds, and the results have been pretty much the same there. My SIG's (pretty much every model you can name) and Colts (1911's), were basically the same.
 
As I said, parts break, or work loose, or bullets jump their crimps, or you get a squib, or bad reloading practices (both ammo and gun), take your pick.

My experience has been, if the revolver stops, its usually done until it can be figured out. The autos usually just require a TRB, or at worst, a "rip", TRB, to get them back in action.
 
You lock up a revolver by not crimping the bullet in the case properly or by not cleaning it. I prefer a revolver because I do not have to check to see if the safety is on. Shooting accurately is a moot point because in a defensive situation you do not need the sights, just point and squeeze.
 
Have you tried any of the non-poly Kahr pistols?.....K9, MK9, CW9?
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I live in Massachusetts where in order for the state to sell a particular pistol it has to be approved and meet a set of guidelines (loaded chamber indicator and manual saftey unless the gun has a DA trigger). Alot of times the manufacturer has to change steps up the assembly line to add these things which can be costly, since they are doing it for a small batch of pistols for Massachusetts or California compared to the regular model going to every other state. So more often than not these companies will only submit their best selling pistols or sometimes not even at all, for example in Mass. you cant buy new Colt or Springfield pistols since they refuse to deal with Massachusetts guidelines. So I am limited on my handgun choices more than most people on this forum.

Anyways, right now in Mass you can only get the PM9, if they ever approve the KM9 for sale in Massachusetts i'll be one of the first to pick one up.

Shooting accurately is a moot point because in a defensive situation you do not need the sights, just point and squeeze.
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Uhhhh... im not even sure how to respond to this.
 
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Dragline45 - I have mirrored your line of reasoning and can't find fault with it though for various and sundry reasons, mostly very subjective ones of "gut" and "feel" I have returned to the airweight fold. I say pick a dance partner and just dance. The Sig 230/232 is a gem and usually very accurate and easy to hit with.
 
AK103K,

With respect, simple routine maintenance would have stopped all your listed revolver stoppages(loose ejector rod,side plate screws and various crud) with the exception of the squib rounds, bullets jumping crimp and the two internal part breakages.

Must be luck, or you dont shoot much.
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I won't speak for Utopia Texas but I have shot enough to work screws/ejector rods loose. Again, simple routine maintenance when cleaning found these issue's before they presented a problem.
I've also been privileged to have shot some older S&W's with some very tight clearances that had to be cleaned after about 25-30rds as crud would start tightening the cyl. up. When clean these pistols were like butter.
I would probably never carry a revolver or semi auto for SD with such tight clearances.

I don't think that would be a problem with today's revolver's. IMO, with the clearances/gaps of most of today's revolvers, if one stops running do to crud it's time to seriously reevaluate the 'ole' cleaning schedule. :D

At any rate, I must have just been lucky when it's come to having less overall trouble with revolvers then semi auto's.
 
A carry gun is a very personal choice. I happen to like J frames, mine is a 357 :D. I have seen numerous revolvers malfunction, whether from ammo, maintenance or parts breakage. The problem with a revolver malfunction is that you are generally out of business until you fix the gun.

Granted, revolver malfunctions are very, very rare.
 
Oh no, AK103K, that would never happen to me.

And the world wonders why frequent service pistol inspections are so popular. At least these issues are found and corrected. ;)

I'd like to know how many pistols arrive at the private ranges ready to go and leave in a parts box without too many rounds actually been fired. :rolleyes: I know what you're thinking, but it's not me. It is those guys...over there. Yea. That's right. Them.

As to the OP; What ever pistol you prefer is the one you want to know how to use the best. I like Sig .380s. I like Walther & Beretta .380s too. Keep shooting. Keep learning. Have fun and be safe.

With respect, simple routine maintenance would have stopped all your listed revolver stoppages
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Now why havn't I ever thought about that? :mad:
 
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With respect, simple routine maintenance would have stopped all your listed revolver stoppages
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Absolutely.

Reality though is this, Ive seen pretty much all of what I posted happen over the years to others guns as well, so I know its not all that an uncommon thing. If you choose to carry a revolver, you need to know that a very simple, little thing, can often take your gun out of action and its not likely going to be readily resolved.
 
I'm not an either/or guy. I normally carry a S&W Mod 60 with one extra speed loader and Gold Dot 135gr +P from their "Short Barrel" line. IMHO, this ammo is the most reliably expanding HP ever designed for J-frame type revolvers. I have no problem with the choice of a .380 by others. Most criminals really are cowards, who seek out victims they believe will not fight back. If you can get off two shots, most criminals will take off running like they just saw Godzilla.

Watch what happens when a 65 year old jewelry store owner gets off just two shots against 5 would-be robbers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CriVUV5lh_M
 
If you're not going to pocket carry there should be many 9's that ought to work.
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I know, I covered this in previous posts. I already have an SR9C if I want to carry a compact 9mm which right now is my EDC. When I needed to carry something smaller I would carry a J frame IWB, the Sig 232 will be replacing the J frame for that role and will be carried in an ankle rig while I work. The reason I am going with the Sig 232 is because I prefer a DA/SA platform, and I have yet to find a 9mm as small as the 232 that is DA/SA.
 
I'd like to know how many pistols arrive at the private ranges ready to go and leave in a parts box without too many rounds actually been fired.
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Yes, that would be an interesting stat.

Now why havn't I ever thought about that? :mad:
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Don't feel pregnant, your not alone. ;)

Just do a bit of research as close as right here on TFL and you'll find those that don't even clean a brand new pistol/mags. before taking it to the range for the first time. Then wander why they had functioning issue's.

In other words, they probably didn't even open the owners manual cause I've not seen a manual yet that didn't tell ya to field strip and clean, first thing.

Absolutely.

Reality though is this, Ive seen pretty much all of what I posted happen over the years to others guns as well, so I know its not all that an uncommon thing. If you choose to carry a revolver, you need to know that a very simple, little thing, can often take your gun out of action and its not likely going to be readily resolved.
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I've seen some of the same as you with revolvers. Have also seen the 'crud' thing play havoc with a few semi auto's as well. Especially when it comes to cruddy mags.

I agree with you that there are certain things that will lock up a revolver that regular cleaning/inspection won't detect. Bullets jumping crimp are one but I will say there is SD ammo being manufactured today for snubs that appear to be addressing that problem nicely. Squibs ??? ...well if you've got a projectile in the bbl of either a rev. or semi auto, your done till it's removed.

I can't see the internal parts, springs etc., in a revolver being any more prone to breakage then in a semi auto.

I know you know this, but just for conversation ....I think we can both agree that which ever we choose for a SD pistol, and I carry both, we need to maintain them as though our lives depend's on them. Regular cleaning/inspection being done and spring replacements at recommended intervals. Again, especially on our SD pistols.
If we're going to get lacks on gun maintenance, make it a range toy.
 
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