Story - good judgment?

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According to my CHL laws, you must tell the offender to stop, or be shot, then shoot if he/she doesn't stop. After you have done that, then you are justified.

I'd say it is a good practice to give a verbal warning if you can do so safely and the situation permits it; however, I am not aware of any Texas law that requires you to do this. Are you sure you aren't confusing advice on what to do with what is legal to do?
 
There is not enough info to go off of in the OP. Now speaking on Texas law. If he did in fact use force he would have gone before a Grand Jury Hearing. In that hearing if it had been found that he was justified in his use of deadly force he would have been waived of all civil liabilities. If he had been found not justified he would have faced 2 counts of Agrivated Assault With Bodily Injury (carries a sentance of 5 to 99 years in Texas). As well as civil liability.
 
pretended like I didn't see him until he was about 6 feet away from me... I screamed at him that "I'm gonna gut you like a pig...."

I'm sure it wasn't funny at the time, but this strikes me as humorous in the retelling. He was probably more scared than you were.

I'm with the rest of you in being skeptical about the story, but it's actually part of a contributed gun review on a legitimate site. I do think that either the author left out a lot of details, or that it is totally fabricated. I can't see any police officer letting him go scot free based on what was described. I do believe that he had some responsibility to let the "bad guys" (if indeed they meant him harm) know that they should stop and not come closer rather than just opening fire. In any case it was a poorly written account and he came across sounding like someone looking for a chance to blast away.
 
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I think a good argument can be made for feeling threatened of imminent serious bodily harm or death when two men (turns out recently paroled, so we get a good idea of their attitude, demeanor, behavior, etc - not exactly nice folks) approach you in a vacant dark parking lot at night demanding cash.

Even if they don't have a weapon in their hand, 4 fists and 4 feet would be very threatening to me. Two men can easily overpower one man and then do as they please. At that point he's faced with imminent serious bodily harm or even death.

While I don't agree with the wounding shot, we are taught to shoot to 'stop the threat' and that's what he did. The threat stopped. I agree that he would have been better to shoot COM just in case the immobilized guy had a weapon and drew it while laying on the ground.

But I think his actions, while not textbook from us armchair quarterbacks, was reasonable (at least in my state).

Posting in on the 'net is a different story.
 
I think a good argument can be made for feeling threatened of imminent serious bodily harm or death when two men (turns out recently paroled, so we get a good idea of their attitude, demeanor, behavior, etc - not exactly nice folks) approach you in a vacant dark parking lot at night demanding cash.
Feeling threatened is but one element. How would the "good idea of their attitude...etc." enter into the discussion? The storyteller here did not know the people, and their backgrounds were therefore completely irrelevant and were not subject to being entered into evidence.

Even if they don't have a weapon in their hand, 4 fists and 4 feet would be very threatening to me. Two men can easily overpower one man and then do as they please. At that point he's faced with imminent serious bodily harm or even death.
Well, according to the story, they had the ability and the opprotunity. So do many people who pass by every day and night.

Did the person have an articulable reason to believe that he was in jeopardy? How about preclusion?

What evidence can he provide?

Speaking hypothetically here, of course, since there is question about whether this so called incident ever occurred.
 
Did the person have an articulable reason to believe that he was in jeopardy? How about preclusion?

What evidence can he provide?

This about sums it up...

Two guys emerged from an old sedan about 50 feet away and stated they were out of work out of cash and needed a loan. They kept on walking toward me as though I was dead meat if I didn't fork over.

Given the context, was he supposed to wait and see?

I suppose he could have tried to flee, but my state doesn't require you to flee. It empowers you to stand your ground.
 
Two guys emerged from an old sedan about 50 feet away and stated they were out of work out of cash and needed a loan. They kept on walking toward me as though I was dead meat if I didn't fork over.

If any of you reread the OP and think that this is justification, you really don't know very much.

Walking and talking are not a lethal threat. Get real and stop posturing.

Also, if you stand your ground when you can flee just because it's a law, then you are flat out stupid.

You are not empowered to be stupid. YMMV.
 
Hard to tell from that.. but the Texas police seemed to think their judgment was okay.. so who's to argue with that??

I wouldn't have shot the guys until I was sure I was in some serious danger.
 
+1 Walter Mitty

If this story were true, the OP would have given his lawyer a heart attack by posting it.

If this story were true, and the OP never consulted an attorney, the OP would be an idiot.

Ergo, seems false to me.

And not justified, based on the post. It's possible that pertinent facts were omitted.

But wow...
 
50ft is too far and just being asked for money is not cause for a reasonable fear of death or severe injury. Yes, all the warning signs are there: They pull up in a car which needs gas but apparently they need to ask someone who is alone at 1am for money and it takes both of them to do that? It just doesn't add up. But at 50 feet and no overtly threatening words (we are of course missing much of the nonverbal dialogue that took place) he was IMHO not even remotely justified to fire when he did.

If I'm ever in a situation like this the Marines have already given me a very good template for escalation of force:

Shout- verbal warning

Show- show you have a weapon and are prepared to use it

Shove- (applied as situation allows, in this one I would skip) Physically neutralizing the threat

Shoot- controlled pair to the upper torso, box drill if confronted by multiple targets
 
Gents,
I read the postings and frankly I don't think any of you have clue. I'm sitting on 158 grain 38 that went in the front. Until you've been shot at or worse SHOT keep quite. My hesitation got me shot. If ever it happens that I'm confronted again "NO HESITATION". I'll empty the clip and/or cylinder. Mygila aka Myron Mangum
 
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Until you've been shot at or worse SHOT keep quite.

Look, I'm sorry that your hesitation got you shot, but to say that we have to keep quiet if we haven't been shot is asinine. Every one here has the right to give their opinion, even if they have no holes in them... thank you!

About the OP. This story was supposedly pulled from another source with no way of verifying the truth of it all. I'm not going to call it BS, but I never believe anything that isn't verifiable thru multiple stories and sites or at least a first hand experience. I won't even waist my time trying to decide if it was justifiable.
 
And I'd agree, being shot at in your life does not qualify you to offer an opinion (or not being shot at does not disqualify your right to offer one either).

My perspective, given the story related in the thread, is that simply asking for money is not a threat in itself. If it were, given the number of times I get hit up weekly for cash for gas, or whatever, I wouldn't be able to afford the ammo to shoot them all, even just a single shot per "bad guy asking for cash." I call BS on the story.
 
verbal warning a must; you're a second or two from taking these guys out(and when I say verbal warning I mean@gunpoint). that being said, I would think he would tell the cops he gave a verbal warning so in my mind the story has lost some meat&potatoes. otherwise this guy was literally startled in a parking lot as earlier mentioned and his response to verbal communication from a distance was to to fire off 2 shots@two unknown individuals.

if theres anything to defend this guy(such as mentioned theres just too little info), its always easy to play monday mrng quarterback and this guy might have felt very threatened in this particular situation. There have been many stories about the dangers in parking lots: the ND college call killed and deserted in MN, etc, etc
 
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If the parking lots I get to park in are lighted, it's a rare experience. I drive truck for a living, and delivery places are rarely in a nice neighborhood. And I'd bet, even in Texas, if I dropped everyone who approached me, I'd have been jailed years ago. Might not even know about that fancy "internet" thing I hear talked about all the time.

My usual experience is not at a distance of more than a phone booth sized area, I'll be asleep and have a knock on the truck door. Given that it could well be a cop knocking, showing a firearm might not be prudent, and I'm usually coming out of a deep sleep. So, quick assessment of a threat is vital in my case. And I've only rarely even shown a firearm, let alone shot someone knocking on the door begging for cash.

Add to this, I have lost many friends over the years to thieves who robbed and killed them right in the truck, I've been trucking for around 35 years (so far). Been parked in places most mortal men fear to tread in daylight, let alone darkness. And I'll not say I have never thought of drawing a gun on a person coming up on my truck asking for money. Maybe I've been damned lucky. But even in Texas, unless you shot someone clearly showing a weapon, and intent to kill or harm you badly, you're not going home that night in your car, and you're not going to be looked at seriously by the cops before they clear your name. That story sounded more like a Wild West shootout at High Noon than a legitimate story.
 
I agree. This story sounds fishy to me too. The idea that those of us who carry would just blaze away at people who look suspicious is what fuels the anti gun movement
 
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