Stories/examples of .22 being insufficient for SD?
- Thread starter Eskimo
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You can kill a person with a slingshot, paperclip, pencil, and a cherry pit. That does not make any of them the best, or even suitable, choice for the job given other options being available.
I will agree that the .22 is a good weapon for self defense given the availability of other cartridges in concealable firearms when you can show me ONE law enforcement agency which advocates that caliber for carry.
How about simply finding one serious hunter that advocates using the .22 LR for larger game like deer?
The .22 at its best is an available self defense option.
I will agree that the .22 is a good weapon for self defense given the availability of other cartridges in concealable firearms when you can show me ONE law enforcement agency which advocates that caliber for carry.
How about simply finding one serious hunter that advocates using the .22 LR for larger game like deer?
The .22 at its best is an available self defense option.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
I don't think that's a valid comparison. Many homicides are perpetrated against an unsuspecting victim who is, for example, sleeping (or otherwise unaware or defenseless). Also, homicides are not "shoot two times COM and see if they stop" situations. Because some scumbag can sneak up on a sleeping person and put a 22 bullet in their head hardly justifies the use of that cartridge for legitimate SD purposes.
Turn the tables, if someone was intent on making YOU the victim of homicide and they were using a 22, is the cartridge you'd want to return fire with a 22?
I wouldn't necessarily want to be on the wrong end of a thrown rock, but that doesn't mean I'm going to keep a pocket full of rocks for self defense either.
A factor to consider when you're quoting statistics - how many of those homicides committed with .22LR firearms were done with rifles and not tiny pocket pistols? Because that's the only SD context where the 22 has an advantage over any other cartridge commonly used for defense - concealability.
One other point - we all know how important shot placement is - yet that is the hugest compromise you'll make in a pocket pistol - the sights tend to be crude, the pistol doesn't tend to fit comfortably in the hand, and the sight radius miniscule. Throw in the adrenaline rush you'll be in the full throes of, and tell me how accurate you'll be.
You know, we can each of us buy and carry whatever the hell we wish to use, and if something in .22LR is what floats your boat, fine - but it is a grave mistake to suggest that it is a highly suitable cartridge for the task, at least from a terminal ballistics perspective.
If I had only a .22LR to defend myself with, would I use it? Sure. Would I wish I had something more substantial? You know it.
A factor to consider when you're quoting statistics - how many of those homicides committed with .22LR firearms were done with rifles and not tiny pocket pistols? Because that's the only SD context where the 22 has an advantage over any other cartridge commonly used for defense - concealability.
One other point - we all know how important shot placement is - yet that is the hugest compromise you'll make in a pocket pistol - the sights tend to be crude, the pistol doesn't tend to fit comfortably in the hand, and the sight radius miniscule. Throw in the adrenaline rush you'll be in the full throes of, and tell me how accurate you'll be.
You know, we can each of us buy and carry whatever the hell we wish to use, and if something in .22LR is what floats your boat, fine - but it is a grave mistake to suggest that it is a highly suitable cartridge for the task, at least from a terminal ballistics perspective.
If I had only a .22LR to defend myself with, would I use it? Sure. Would I wish I had something more substantial? You know it.
I don't think you're actually seeking knowledge here. You had already concluded that one of the smallest caliber available is plenty potent for you. This is purely a baiting thread. It's more than a little sad on a number of levels, but I guess I hope you're having fun with it.
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There is no pig of any size that has a THICK enuff skull to bounce off any round. Improper angle will deflect a bullet of any size on a large bone. I use a .177 air rifle and 8 grain pellet to kill hogs routinely. The skull seems fairly thin to me when I look at them all cleaned and boiled.
My father's old time bestest buddy was shot 6 times in the back with a .25 auto and got so mad at the little punk he went back, took the pistol from him and beat him about the head and neck with it and drove himself to the hospital. The shooting started from 15 feet and as he walked calmly to his truck increased the distance to 35 or so feet before he decided to lump the shooter up for using a peashooter...
Brent
My father's old time bestest buddy was shot 6 times in the back with a .25 auto and got so mad at the little punk he went back, took the pistol from him and beat him about the head and neck with it and drove himself to the hospital. The shooting started from 15 feet and as he walked calmly to his truck increased the distance to 35 or so feet before he decided to lump the shooter up for using a peashooter...
Brent
David Armstrong
Moderator
I've researched thousands of shootings, and the .22 seems to work just fine for the typical SD situation. In those situations where a .22 did not work it seems likely that bigger calibers would not work either.
David Armstrong
Moderator
Times have changed, but there was at least one State Police agency that issued the High-Standard .22 derringer for BUG/off-duty use in the past.
Of course, the issue is somewhat irrelveant as you also won't find a LE agency advocating the .38 snub for carry, or the various .32s, .380s, 9mm Makarovs, etc. LE carry needs are quite different than most non-LE needs.
When did I conclude that .22 was plenty potent enough? GJ shoving words in my mouth. You are assuming WAY too much. I am "baiting" the people who seem to always jump on anyone when they mention .22, because I never see any solid evidence that it's a terrible SD round. Keep the rude comments to yourself.
FoMoCowboy
Inactive
QUOTE]How about simply finding one serious hunter that advocates using the .22 LR for larger game like deer?[/QUOTE]
I know of a handful who have used .22lr for deer and antelope with success
This is EXACTLY why i left my last forum. over .22 trail guns.
I know of a handful who have used .22lr for deer and antelope with success
This is EXACTLY why i left my last forum. over .22 trail guns.
This is worth exactly what you've paid for it:
In my younger days on the farm, my father and I used to butcher 900-1200 steers for beef. A head shot in the right place with Dad's .22 guaranteed a day of butchering. Those days made a deep impression on me, namely that shot placement is the key to any bullets effectiveness. I carry much larger calibers on a daily basis, but I wouldn't be undergunned with a .22
In my younger days on the farm, my father and I used to butcher 900-1200 steers for beef. A head shot in the right place with Dad's .22 guaranteed a day of butchering. Those days made a deep impression on me, namely that shot placement is the key to any bullets effectiveness. I carry much larger calibers on a daily basis, but I wouldn't be undergunned with a .22
So your intent is to call out those whose opinions differ from yours?
As Glenn Meyer asks:If I had to carry a .22 for SD I would since it is better than going unarmed, but I certainly would not go so far as to say it is a good SD round.
Please read post #16 where DNS gave the best response you could hope to receive in this farce of a thread.
What is "rude" and "hostile" is that you would try to post a thread such as this for your stated purpose above...
I am reporting this thread to the mods in hopes that it is closed since it is doing nothing to expand anyone's knowledge. I guess that makes me rude
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.22 For SD??
I'd have to say no, but thats my own opinion and everyone is entitled to one. I prefer to carry what I'm comfortable with and thats all that matters. And thats what should matter to anyone who's carrying for SD. You need to have confidence in your abilities and your weapon. One doesn't go very good without the other! So will carry a .22 for SD? NO Wold I if its all I had? Yes. Is it a good all around SD round depends.
I'd have to say no, but thats my own opinion and everyone is entitled to one. I prefer to carry what I'm comfortable with and thats all that matters. And thats what should matter to anyone who's carrying for SD. You need to have confidence in your abilities and your weapon. One doesn't go very good without the other! So will carry a .22 for SD? NO Wold I if its all I had? Yes. Is it a good all around SD round depends.
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