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Allen: I did it! 'got a new Remington 870 20ga pump with 20 inch barrel, 3 boxes of shells, and training to use same by a retired Green Beret/Delta Force professional - all as an even trade for the 12ga DBL. Many, many thanks for the suggestion. -tyro
 
Congrats on the trade, Tyro, sounds like you lucked into something.

As far as whether a handgun or handgun caliber carbine(to be accutate) is better, I cant call that shot from here. You know your situation better than I. Will there be a need to carry? Are there other adults in the household whose opinions or preferences don't quite match yours?

Wonderful Wife doesn't like shotguns so there's alternatives here for her and Daughter.

A possibility is a used service revolver in 18 Special or 357, loaded with 38s. Not real expensive, reliable,effective, and easy to train with.
 
Dave: Wonderful Wife surprised me last night. I came home from the range/gun shop and told her how well impressed I was with the Green Beret/Delta Force retiree who gave me the shotgun deal. Then I told her I want to go to the Sheriff's office today, get a permit to purchase a handgun, and then have the Delta Force guy train me for a CHL. Her response to all that was miraculously mello and receptive, given the fact that in the past she has been more opposed to the idea of having a handgun in the house than she has been regarding a shotgun. This seemed to have weighed in favor of her accepting what she has previously opposed: She won't go practice the organ, which she plays at the neighborhood country church, without me as an escort, because she is afraid to be alone in the empty, isolated building. I referred to that fact in conversation last night and asked her what if a predator showed up or was hiding in the church when she went there to practice, and I didn't have the physical strength or ability to protect her (which is not a far fetched fantasy: Across the road from the church building is a rest home which has among it's residents mentally unstable psychiatric patients, some with a history of violence, who sometimes wander across the road and into the church building). She also seems comforted by the fact that I am determined to take full advantage of the opportunity to be well trained by the Delta Force retiree who has set up shop just 5 miles away from us. The next step will be the challenge of choosing a handgun. Many thanks for the recommendation, which I will keep in mind. -Tyro
 
Great news, Tyro. Treasure that wife, which you certainly do now(G).

Maybe she'll get into some lessons too. I taught my grandmother to shoot when she was about 70. A 38 with target Wadcutters is not a hard kicker..
 
Congratulations on the trade. You got a square deal. I think the SF guy who is training you w/ the shotgun should be a good source regarding a defensive handgun.
I love a story w/ a happy ending.
 
Keep mine in safe with keys masking taped to headboard underside, 6 rounds of #7 birdshot in the Mossy 500! Like the Aguilla mini-shells, but they function reliably only about 80% of the time, and that is unacceptable. Have been told that I can have the feed ramp, or whatever the little thing is that lifts the shell after it pops outta the mag reshaped to function with the 100% reliability that I demand!

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I thought I'd seen it all, until a 22WMR spun a bunny 2 1/4 times in the air!
 
DOCSpanky,
Birdshot?
Are you expecting a flock of some kind of North American game bird to perpetrate a home invasion. Sorry, could not resist the analogy. No offense intended.
 
Tuc, at typical hD ranges the load hits as a solid mass. The shells could be loaded with breath mints at 10 ft and be good stoppers.
A case could be made for small shot at very close ranges being MORE effective than 00, a couple hundred tiny spheres transferring energy and deforming into spheroids.

Had an ER surgeon tell me once how difficult it was to deal with a wound of that type, he called it, "a bloody rathole"...
 
What B.S.! you won't get reliable penetration with dove loads or whatever you call them. If your BG is wearing any kind of clothing such loads are very dumb( if he's bareassed you're in luck). This whole tired discussion about birdshot loads and wallboard penetration is misinformed. Sure, you can blast a hole in a guy with just the gases from the muzzle but that changes with distance, same argument can be made for birdshot. Bottom line use heavier pellets-buckshot in #4 is much, much better.
 
Tuc, I spent years as an instructor,served on the Tac Team Weapons Squad for Md DOC and have more experience with what a shotgun can or cannot do than most folks.Been hunting with them since 1958 also.

Try this...

Wrap a can of soda in a T shirt, then a sleeve from a flannel shirt and then the leg from an old set of jeans.Add whatever other cloth layers you deem appropriate. Hang it up and back off 5 yards or so and shoot it with a "Dove load".Better yet,make it the longest distance you'd have to shot in YOUR house.

If that can isn't leaking like Clinton's credibility, the first round's on me.

That is,assuming you hit it...
 
Ah, the birdshot penetration issue.

At very close distances, the birdshot will not have left the shot cup. The end result is the entire mass of birdshot slamming into the target. Not quite a slug but at contact distance, pretty dang close.

Beyond contact distance (0-7 yards) birdshot is probably not your best choice for defensive use. But there are people who live in smaller apartments in the city who can be well served by stoking their defensive scattergun with birdshot.

Gabe Suarez, who is a member of this board, says basically the same thing in his book "The Tactical Shotgun".

HTH,

Justin



------------------
Justin T. Huang, Esq.
late of Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
 
I'll stick to what I said earlier about the relative ineffectiveness of birdshot. Why use it if there is a better way? It's that issue of wall penetration again isn't it? Oh, and Farmer John used to use rock salt out of his scattergun too,(to scare trespassers) The myths abound when it's about the shotgun.

[This message has been edited by tuc22 (edited June 28, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>contact distance (0-7 yards) <snip> people who live in smaller apartments[/quote]

Uh huh, even folks who live in bigger apartments probably won't have too many 7 yard self-defense shots? <g>

Wouldn't be my first pick, but mebbe under these circumstances, it's justifiable. There's always breath mints... <ggg>
 
Good Evening Everyone-

Dave McC's resume reads like a "Who's Who Among American Shotgunners" so I hardly think he would steer us in the wrong direction. Let's agree to disagree if it can keep the threads moving...

Regardless of whatever is coming out of the barrel, who wants to stand around picking their nose at the angry end of a SG? It sher' ain't me!

Can't we all just...get along?

Regards,

~ Blue Jays ~
 
Yeah, yeah.
Since some here believe the shotgun is a CQB weapon and therefore can use close range loads like birdshot (LOL!) I will then repectfully disagree and will choose to utilize a long gun at the range it was meant to be used at and load it accordingly, thank you very much.

CQB= Close Quarter Battle or in close fighting i.e., when opponent is within your reach and you are within his. Here he grabs the bird gun.
 
Thanks, Blue Jays,flattery will get you anything(G)....

One thing, I'm more of a generalist than a specialist. The hot shots down at the skeet, trap or clays range, or in the practical or IPSC matches need lose no sleep over my possible competition. But I've done most everything there can be done with a shotgun at some point,and regard it as my duty to pass along what I can.

My shotgunning this year will probably consist of some clays,informal handthrown trap, some dove hunting where plenty of lead gets returned to the Earth(G), maybe a little snow goose shooting, and benchtesting and zeroing my deer 870 and then using same in November for freezer detail. I skipped turkey season for lack of time, and will not go quail hunting unless someone with a good dog invites me. Maybe squirrel hunting and rabbits. I'll almost certainly teach someone along the line, tho I no longer instruct formally.

Tuc, we can agree on disagreeing, but I urge you to try that exercise with the soda. You'll learn something I think you could use.
 
Can you fill that soda can with a heart, lungs, organs, arteries, and a brain bent on killing you? I didn't think so. If the soda leaks out what does that tell you?
 
Longest possible distance shot in my home=12 yards.

Backstop=sliding glass door, 10 feet of unobstructed space, 5/8" wood fencing, five more feet of space and then my neighbor's exterior wall (which has bedroom windows).

I'm using a pistol for home defense right now, but if I used my shotgun I wouldn't be using #4 buckshot.
 
It won't leak out, Tuc,chances are you'll be wiping some off your shooting glasses. The can will be ruptured, and soda spattered far and wide.

This is useless....
 
While I will be vacating my current apartment shortly, I am also looking at a realistic HD range of about 10 yards, assuming I am ensconced in my saferoom with the Benelli pointed towards the top of the staircase.

Now if I was a big-shot Boston attorney, I might be able to afford a bigger place. :)
 
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