I see no reason that a 475 Linebaugh, .500 S&@, .500 Maximum, etc. that all come into the 3000ft-lbs of energy range, 6 times that of the average service caliber, aren't considered REAL stopping rounds, and guns.
What people often forget in this is that you don't have to be as effective as anything else, you just have to be effective enough to get the job done. And when we look at what is effective for personal defense, caliber is way down near the bottom of the list.If that were true, then two hits to the chest with a .32ACP would be as effective as with the .45.
Just as others have shot BGs with .45s and watched them run away. And if flash and boom make people drop, the .357 Mag wins.He says that he has shot BGs with 9mm and watched them run away.
His take is that the fire-flash and concussive “BOOM” from a .45 makes people drop even in less-than lethal hits.
I think far more LEOs have no loyalty to the 1911 than have any loyalty to it, mch less fervent loyalty.I think his comments also reflect the fervent loyalty many LEO’s have for their 1911.
Why do LEOs have a distaste for the 1911? Why didnt LEOs switch over to the 1911 and stick with revolvers?
If you were around the guy I’m talking about, you would understand where he’s coming from. His experiences are from undercover work with highly paranoid and motivated drug dealers. Right or wrong he has the convictions and confidence in himself that brings to mind Dirty Harry or Det. Jimmy 'Popeye' Doyle.
He doesn’t care about gel blocks, goat studies or crowd control.
His conclusions, laughable or not, come from close quarters, real life situations where there’s a real nasty human animal out to do him harm. In his opinion, when he has shot scumbags at close range, their reactions to a 9mm vs. a .45 seem to be different.
This would be hard to put to a scientific test. Maybe he’s just superstitious. Just like gamblers and baseball players, he seems to base his actions and beliefs on past scenarios. The opinions may not be statistically sound, but don't try to prove them wrong to his face.
I think his comments also reflect the fervent loyalty many LEO’s have for their 1911. The LEO’s I talk to aren’t being funny when they argue the merits of their favorite firearm vs. a 9mm.
Also one should realize that the fictional Popeye Doyle AND the real MOS he was modeled after (Eddie Egan) both carried .38 Spl. revolvers!What you seem to be missing is that the seconhand accounts of a proverbial "Dirty Harry" or "Popeye Doyle," particularly when posted anonymously on the internet, do not a convincing argument make.
SPUSCG said:well it would be hard to switch off a safety and shoot under a quick stressful situation like the car driver pulling a weapon
Not at all -- at least if one is prepared to train and practice sufficiently (based on my own training experience). I've trained to shoot a 1911 with a high thumb, riding the safety. I've also trained to sweep the safety off after the gun has cleared the holster and as it is being rotated toward the target. Disengaging the thumb safety on the draw stroke has become second nature.SPUSCG said:...well it would be hard to switch off a safety and shoot under a quick stressful situation like the car driver pulling a weapon...
SPUSCG said:half my teachers are LEOs/former leos and i hear about a ton of shooting incidents