stopping power statistics

If the "fire flash/concusive boom factor" actually meant anything, we could all just carry those massively loud and fireballing Winchester .357 blanks and not worry about lawsuits. :D
 
Remember, these are malicious swine who have been SHOT.
They didn't get a "warning shot across the bow".
They didn't get up and run away.
Maybe my friend misinterpreted the happenings, but he doesn't carry 9mm anymore.
 
I see no reason that a 475 Linebaugh, .500 S&@, .500 Maximum, etc. that all come into the 3000ft-lbs of energy range, 6 times that of the average service caliber, aren't considered REAL stopping rounds, and guns.
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LOL, this is the 227th thread in which Socrates has posted on his beloved 475 Linebaugh!

FYI, S., people do consider it real stopping power. They don't consider it a realistic carry gun.
 
If that were true, then two hits to the chest with a .32ACP would be as effective as with the .45.
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What people often forget in this is that you don't have to be as effective as anything else, you just have to be effective enough to get the job done. And when we look at what is effective for personal defense, caliber is way down near the bottom of the list.
 
He says that he has shot BGs with 9mm and watched them run away.
His take is that the fire-flash and concussive “BOOM” from a .45 makes people drop even in less-than lethal hits.
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Just as others have shot BGs with .45s and watched them run away. And if flash and boom make people drop, the .357 Mag wins.
I think his comments also reflect the fervent loyalty many LEO’s have for their 1911.
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I think far more LEOs have no loyalty to the 1911 than have any loyalty to it, mch less fervent loyalty.
 
Why do LEOs have a distaste for the 1911? Why didnt LEOs switch over to the 1911 and stick with revolvers?

I know it may be a little heavier on the hip...would that be the excuse?
 
It's not that they have a distaste for it, it's that for most of them it is a non-issue. Most cops could care less about the gun they carry as long as it does the job in the rare case they need it, and it doesn't get in the way of them doing their usual duties.
 
Most LEO I know think of their handguns the same way they think of their flashlights - a tool. Except they use their flashlights more.;)

They wouldn't care much if you gave them a different one or a revolver or 1911. So long as it goes BANG! if they need it.
 
If you were around the guy I’m talking about, you would understand where he’s coming from. His experiences are from undercover work with highly paranoid and motivated drug dealers. Right or wrong he has the convictions and confidence in himself that brings to mind Dirty Harry or Det. Jimmy 'Popeye' Doyle.
He doesn’t care about gel blocks, goat studies or crowd control.

His conclusions, laughable or not, come from close quarters, real life situations where there’s a real nasty human animal out to do him harm. In his opinion, when he has shot scumbags at close range, their reactions to a 9mm vs. a .45 seem to be different.

This would be hard to put to a scientific test. Maybe he’s just superstitious. Just like gamblers and baseball players, he seems to base his actions and beliefs on past scenarios. The opinions may not be statistically sound, but don't try to prove them wrong to his face.

I think his comments also reflect the fervent loyalty many LEO’s have for their 1911. The LEO’s I talk to aren’t being funny when they argue the merits of their favorite firearm vs. a 9mm.
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What you seem to be missing is that the seconhand accounts of a proverbial "Dirty Harry" or "Popeye Doyle," particularly when posted anonymously on the internet, do not a convincing argument make.
 
What you seem to be missing is that the seconhand accounts of a proverbial "Dirty Harry" or "Popeye Doyle," particularly when posted anonymously on the internet, do not a convincing argument make.
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Also one should realize that the fictional Popeye Doyle AND the real MOS he was modeled after (Eddie Egan) both carried .38 Spl. revolvers!
 
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"Very few are 'gun people,' and their bosses are scared of cocked and locked. "

well it would be hard to switch off a safety and shoot under a quick stressful situation like the car driver pulling a weapon
 
SPUSCG said:
well it would be hard to switch off a safety and shoot under a quick stressful situation like the car driver pulling a weapon
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Are you hypothesizing, or is this a personal observation?
 
SPUSCG said:
...well it would be hard to switch off a safety and shoot under a quick stressful situation like the car driver pulling a weapon...
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Not at all -- at least if one is prepared to train and practice sufficiently (based on my own training experience). I've trained to shoot a 1911 with a high thumb, riding the safety. I've also trained to sweep the safety off after the gun has cleared the holster and as it is being rotated toward the target. Disengaging the thumb safety on the draw stroke has become second nature.
 
The Automatic .45 ACP Safety catch?

Let us address the taking off of a safety catch as the bad guy in the car draws his gun!

A question, is it better to draw a gun, point it, press the trigger, and a bullet is airborne, or add one more action, the taking off of a safety catch as well!

A true story, not a "Happened to a friend one" big IPSC match (USPSA/IPSC Nationals) in Norfolk VA, you opened a door, Pizza in strong hand, as targets swung up towards you, two of them, you drew, and fired 4 rounds, two on each of the two targets swinging towards you. They continued on the curve, and fell to the ground. I missed the safety! No hits on those two targets, how many times had I drew and fired with a .45 Colt 1911? 1000s of times! Thousands of times! Promptly turned to a Glock 17 for my match gun.

Had that have been a fight for my life? Guess I would have not done so good Aye?
 
I'll tell you what, Brit. I'll continue to use a 1911, and you use something else.

This topic has been beaten to death. I know a lot of people who have trained extensively with a 1911, carry one and have every confidence in both the gun and their training. I do as well (through the years I've probably fired almost 100,000 rounds with a 1911).

We hear all sorts of horror stories, of one type or another. With the 1911, it's usually about not disengaging the safety. With Glocks, etc., we hear about all sorts of NDs. One can mess things up with pretty much any type of gun. Pretty much all of the problems are ultimately training, practice or maintenance issues. In other words, problems are use induced.

Each person should choose the personal weapon that he has confidence in and manages well. There are quite a few handgun designs that can well fulfill the mission requirements for a personal sidearm, especially for a private citizen. The 1911 is one of those, and there are others. The most important things are that (1) YOU can mange it properly, so choose the design that works best for you; and (2) whatever gun you choose, you should get good training and then practice regularly and diligently.

With training and practice, pretty much any gun of decent quality will do. But some people find some designs suit them better than others.

Under stress, one reverts to his level of training, and no type of gun will make up for a lack of training. Of course someone with minimal training may think he is better off with a DA pistol, but he's fooling himself if he thinks he's truly capable with it or doesn't need more and better training to manage it effectively.
 
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