stopped by off duty deputy at Wal-Mart

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Yes, from the information given in the OP, it certainly sounds like the sheriff violated this man's rights. It's a shame he didn't get the officer's name; good luck getting any information on his identity at this point.

Still points out the problems associated with open carry, however. The issues are connected.
 
I think he could find out who this over-reactive idiot was with a little detective work and a few phone calls. For my money, I'd go forward and try my darndest to find out who he was ... and then make his life difficult.

That's just me ... I have attitude.:D
 
Hearing about the situation just helps the rest of us be prepared to address it ourselves, should any of us be so unfortunate as to have to deal with someone ill-informed and possibly on a power-trip such as the OP came across.
 
Aguila Blanca, notice in the post you quoted I said it "might have been reasonable" for the deputy to ask for any state issued ID, not that it would have been reasonable.

And, in the following post, I had pointed out the requirement for articulable suspicion.

I don't mind being quoted, but please take note of what I'm saying, in total.
 
That's just me ... I have attitude
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An admirable quality. I know I would be tracking down the identity of this deputy, and exploring my legal options against him. What he did appears to be so wrong on so many levels, but then we don't know the whole story.
 
I only wish we had this kind of problem here. If this happened here you would be in jail. They would go to your house and take all your guns. That's if they didn't shoot you 1st. We live in a high crime area and are told we cant protect ourself with a gun. Sweet home Chicago...
 
They can't make it up. Open carry is legal in WV. The police cannot detain people arbitrarily for engaging in LEGAL behavior.

An officer can detain a person if they have resonable suspicion that a crime has been or is about to be commited.

Also if the officer can articulate that the area is high in crime or that in his experience for the area most persons armed are criminaly armed that gives him resonable supicion.
 
An officer can detain a person if they have resonable suspicion that a crime has been or is about to be commited.

And in this case, buying ammo at walmart does nothing to give the power-tripping off-duty deputy any reason to have suspicion. Reasonable or not.
 
Who said it was the buying of the ammo? I wasn't there it could have been something he heard said along with him being armed. As far as I'm concerned the guy was stopped, turned out to be doing nothing wrong, and he left. Everyone around here makes it like he was part of the inquisition.

More like the power tripping of OC is turned into insecurity when someone gets attention for it.
 
No, in my not so humble opinion, it wasn't. I have open carried for 28 years, off and on, (mostly CCW nowadays for various reasons), and I have never experienced that type of behavior. The ONE time I was relieved of my sidearm was when my bank mistakenly listed my debit card as stolen, and while I was waiting, officers arrived and disarmed me. They had probable cause, which was explained to me during the course of the incident. At the end of the incident after it had been proven to all parties that the offending article was, indeed, legally my property, the officers returned my sidearm and ammunition, commented on what a nice gun it was and complimented me on my choice of carry ammo - Hydra Shok, IIRC.
Judging solely by the information provided, since we have no other accounts to go from, I think it's not power tripping here from open carrier, the power trip was the officer - wonder how long he's been out of the academy. I remember a story of two brand new COs that decided to play cops and pulled over a vehicle, issued a verbal warning and received a verbal warning - they'd pulled over their Warden. Neither was employed with DOC the following day.
Hopefully this officer will get a wake up call before he does something really out of line.
 
Who said it was the buying of the ammo? I wasn't there it could have been something he heard said along with him being armed. As far as I'm concerned the guy was stopped, turned out to be doing nothing wrong, and he left. Everyone around here makes it like he was part of the inquisition.

More like the power tripping of OC is turned into insecurity when someone gets attention for it.

Baloney.

There was no reason for the off-duty deputy to question him at all, going from the information in the OP. None whatsoever. Period, end of story. He wasn't detained, but he wasn't free to go? Power trip by a LEO who sounds like he doesn't even know the law.

And it's very easy and convenient to turn this back on the OP for open carrying. Poor argument and poor reasoning.
 
What if the scenario were slightly different. Sounds like WV has CCW. What if the officer decided to search everyone in the store to check for CCW's and make sure none found were stolen? Is that OK? I mean if these folks are all legal why should they care? Just like the OC guy should you just expect that , I mean you are carrying a concealed weapon , IN PUBLIC ! How is the cop collecting everyone's gun in the building and calling them all in any different? While everyone in the store is being detained they all should be handcuffed too right ? The officer has a right to insure his own safety. Why is it not OK to handcuff everyone in the building but somehow OK to handcuff the OP?
 
Everyone is spun up over an issue that was wrong, and alot of other descriptors, but not wrong enough for the OP to get the "officers" information....

I too have had a run in with a cop where I felt I was wronged (traffic stop, not gun related)....I drove to a station and reported it.
 
And it's very easy and convenient to turn this back on the OP for open carrying. Poor argument and poor reasoning

For my part, I wasn't blaming the OP for bad judgement when he walked into the store while open-carrying. What the deputy did was reprehensible and needs to be addressed to keep the moron from repeating this kind of action in the future.

I did express my feeling that open-carry sometimes sends the wrong message to a lot of folks out there in the world, and I'm not sure that it helps the cause of gun rights sometimes. When only a few do it, it makes those those who do appear to be eccentric oddballs and therefore scary to other people.
 
When was the last time anyone ever heard of a crook (Bad Guy = Prohibited Person) carrying openly?

Crooks, by their nature, will carry concealed in order to surprise their victim(s). Crooks, by their nature, will carry concealed to hide their act from any police that may know them (whether they are actually prohibited or not).

We are not talking about an encounter in/with a vehicle or in some shady place. This encounter took place in a public space via a walking, but openly carrying man.

Taking the facts, as expressed in the OP, as true; There can be no ARS for a stop and check.

In General;
  • What makes something unlawful, is that there is a statute passed by the legislature that prohibits that something.
    • If whatever you want to do is not prohibited by law, it is then lawful.
    • Lawful prohibitions of certain acts are further modified by the Courts.
      1. Case law prevails over whatever you think the statute actually says.
  • Concealed Carry is generally an exception to the statute prohibiting the act of carrying while concealed.
  • Some few States have enacted statutes that prohibit all carry.
    • These same States may have exceptions to the prohibitions on carrying firearms within the public sphere.
In general, if you live in a State where open carry is lawful, it is because your State has enacted no law to prohibit that activity. If there is no law prohibiting the act, then in and of itself, the act cannot be a reason for suspicion.

It is, in general, only where the act is an exception to the law that prohibits the act, where articulable reasonable suspicion can attach.

The last point I would like to make. Most people, including many of our police don't know the gun laws of their own State. They see something; It looks bad (because the practice isn't common); They think someone is breaking the law; they report it... Or in this case, detain the individual.

That's the reality of what we see in many areas, throughout the U.S.

What I like to do, is to make it a teaching moment. No, not at the scene, but later at the station with the officer and the Chief/Supervisor/Sgt.

What I don't do is to get bent out of shape, because reality intrudes its ugly head.
 
teeroux said:
An officer can detain a person if they have resonable suspicion that a crime has been or is about to be commited.

Also if the officer can articulate that the area is high in crime or that in his experience for the area most persons armed are criminaly armed that gives him resonable supicion.
You are a bit mixed up. An officer can make a preliminary, investigative contact (not a detention) if he has a "reasonable suspicion based on clearly articulable facts that a crime has been committed, is being committed, or is about to be committed." The Supreme Court specifically stated that a hunch is not sufficient -- there must be clearly articulable FACTS to support a suspicion of criminal activity.

In a state where open carry withOUT a permit is legal, what "clearly articulable facts" could this deputy possibly enunciate that would in any way support a suspicion of a crime?

teeroux said:
More like the power tripping of OC is turned into insecurity when someone gets attention for it.
"Power tripping"?

What power tripping? I can't open carry in my state, and in the summer it's a real nuisance to have to dress in ways that keep my sidearm concealed without baking me. I would love to just "let it all hang out," and I assure that power tripping has nothing to do with it. Comfort and convenienec has everything to do with it.
 
Let's not forget that the deputy ran the serial number on the gun. IMHO that was itself an unconstitutional search. The OP was standing in a checkout line at Wal-Mart. What gave the deputy any right to run the serial number "to see if it was stolen"? He had no indication that it might be stolen. If there was any power tripping going on in this episode, it was on the part of the deupty, not the OP.
 
Sparks1957 said:
I did express my feeling that open-carry sometimes sends the wrong message to a lot of folks out there in the world, and I'm not sure that it helps the cause of gun rights sometimes. When only a few do it, it makes those those who do appear to be eccentric oddballs and therefore scary to other people.
I agree. Isn't that a good reason why MORE people should do it? Then we won't be the odd-balls.
 
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