Stop buying ammo!!!
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kilimanjaro
New member
One LGS here has identified some of the scalpers and is selling them one box a day, no more. A brick of .22 is ten boxes, according to the owner, when these guys come around.
I think it's getting better up here, LGS has about 10 cases in stock this week, and powder expected any day. Another larger LGS is getting stocked up in primers and ammo, and some bulk bullets.
One shop sold 6 Dillon RL550b presses in a week, this is in a rural county with 90,000 population, so looks like handloading is going to be a lot more popular.
I think it's getting better up here, LGS has about 10 cases in stock this week, and powder expected any day. Another larger LGS is getting stocked up in primers and ammo, and some bulk bullets.
One shop sold 6 Dillon RL550b presses in a week, this is in a rural county with 90,000 population, so looks like handloading is going to be a lot more popular.
Nittespanker
Moderator
I went to a gunshow today and a guy had boxs of Winchester 555 .22 LR ammo for 100.00. He asked me if I wanted a box(he had 3 boxs) and I said "that's more than I'm willing to pay so ill pass". He took offense to that and said he was in business to make a profit. Well that fired me off and I replied back.....buying ammo at Walmart and reselling if for Quadruple the price is not business it's called scalping. I said it calm and cool and walked off.
Same guy had Winchester white box 9mm 100 rnd boxs for 75 a box and 85 for .45acp.
All Walmart ammo.
Another guy had some bushmaster AR's for 1600.00.
I remarked to one dealer that had reasonable prices....."why is it that some dealers here act like the worlds ending when it's clear that its not" he laughed and said their not true business people but trying to prey on the ignorant. I agreed.
Same guy had Winchester white box 9mm 100 rnd boxs for 75 a box and 85 for .45acp.
All Walmart ammo.
Another guy had some bushmaster AR's for 1600.00.
I remarked to one dealer that had reasonable prices....."why is it that some dealers here act like the worlds ending when it's clear that its not" he laughed and said their not true business people but trying to prey on the ignorant. I agreed.
I load most all of my ammo and I can load around 48 different cartridges more or less. The only center fire I have bought recently is .327 magnum because I don't have much brass. It has always been available and consistent in price in the $20-$25 range per 50 even before Nov of last year. My guess is the resellers don't see a market in it. I was about out of 22 match ammo that I shoot in pistol matches, SK Standard Plus. This ammo is made by Lapua and is marketed as Wolf Match-Target as well as the SK brand. It is a good value in that it returns very good accuracy at a reasonable price and you have to pay a lot more to get measurably better accuracy. I bought a case of 5000 a couple of years ago I think it was around $440 which works out to $4.40 per box of 50. A couple of days ago I checked on availability and, if the price was okay, to order a case of SK Standard Plus or Wolf match-target. It was out of stock at the first place I checked but in stock for $490 a case at the second. The person on the phone was polite but she did ask what I was shooting it out of. "I have a FAS 602, a Benelli 90, and....." She stopped me there and asked how much I wanted and I told her a case of 5000 if that was doable. Although she did not come out and ask, I am thinking the question was to get a feel if I was going to resell it. A quick look on gunbroker and I saw SK and Wolf for about twice that with bids. I don't buy/use cheap .22 LR so I am not tracking prices on it but talking to the local Walmart sporting dept manager, he said they are getting the same amounts of .22 in but it is selling out in a couple of hours. In any case, I don't see a need for me to buy anything much the rest of the year. I will see where the prices are then.
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SocialAnarchist
Moderator
The facts are simple. We the consumer control the market. Whether by buying out all the ammo we see in stores or supporting the scalpers by paying their insane prices.
Until the latest panic I was buying 525 round Remington bricks when they were on sale, and usually alternating every paycheck buying a box or .45acp and 9mm. I simply refuse to pay these ridiculous prices and it will be a cold day in hell before I pay more than $25 for a brick of .22lr.
Fortunately, I have a good amount on hand and I haven't played into the panic buying. I shop at a small local gunstore most often and they have been getting in small quantities of .22lr, 9mm and .45acp and the prices, while not pre-panic, are pretty good.
Until the latest panic I was buying 525 round Remington bricks when they were on sale, and usually alternating every paycheck buying a box or .45acp and 9mm. I simply refuse to pay these ridiculous prices and it will be a cold day in hell before I pay more than $25 for a brick of .22lr.
Fortunately, I have a good amount on hand and I haven't played into the panic buying. I shop at a small local gunstore most often and they have been getting in small quantities of .22lr, 9mm and .45acp and the prices, while not pre-panic, are pretty good.
I reload, and have been able to get components at or near pre-panic prices, so my centerfire shooting hasn't changed. However, .22LR is a different story. I still have a decent amount, but shoot it less now. I will NOT pay artificially inflated prices for ammo nor guns, so unless it is priced at or near pre-panic prices, I don't buy it.
Recently, at a gun shop I frequent one of the employees came up to me all excited because they got 9MM in, and did I want any. I thanked him profusely but indicated I reload, and at those prices don't want them. He was shocked. I guess they've been able to sell all they get at these inflated prices. Well that will change.
Recently, at a gun shop I frequent one of the employees came up to me all excited because they got 9MM in, and did I want any. I thanked him profusely but indicated I reload, and at those prices don't want them. He was shocked. I guess they've been able to sell all they get at these inflated prices. Well that will change.
Shipwrecked
Inactive
Entertaining read
Here in the UK we have always paid a bit more for things than on the other side of the pond, especially petrol - now £1.30 litre. However, despite price rises I have never seen a shortage of ammunition. There may be times when a dealer won't stock a certain round but will order it in if you want it. We are restricted by our certificates on how much we can store and stockpilling 50K would never happen, even dealers don't hold that in 22lr. A few thousand would be tops and you'd have to show a history of purchase and usage to the police to waarant this amount.
Are some of your people expecting armageddon to need so much. Why aren't the dealers recognising who is stockpiling and tell them to jog on as they have had enough over a month.
Price wise we are £150/1000 for Eley Match but can get rounds as low as £50/1000 for less accurate but still good ammunition. Full bore is more or less a pound a bang for most normal calibres but 9mm is a lot lot less.
Here in the UK we have always paid a bit more for things than on the other side of the pond, especially petrol - now £1.30 litre. However, despite price rises I have never seen a shortage of ammunition. There may be times when a dealer won't stock a certain round but will order it in if you want it. We are restricted by our certificates on how much we can store and stockpilling 50K would never happen, even dealers don't hold that in 22lr. A few thousand would be tops and you'd have to show a history of purchase and usage to the police to waarant this amount.
Are some of your people expecting armageddon to need so much. Why aren't the dealers recognising who is stockpiling and tell them to jog on as they have had enough over a month.
Price wise we are £150/1000 for Eley Match but can get rounds as low as £50/1000 for less accurate but still good ammunition. Full bore is more or less a pound a bang for most normal calibres but 9mm is a lot lot less.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"Here in the UK we have always paid a bit more for things than on the other side of the pond, especially petrol - now £1.30 litre."
That's $7.56 a US gallon. And the lion's share of that price is the Crown's road fuels tax plus the VAT.
That's not the case with ammunition. These prices are being driven strictly by market forces -- supply and demand.
There's lots of yelling and screaming about how the government is buying up ammo to push prices higher and get it out of the hands of the average gunowner, but that's a bunch of tripe.
That's $7.56 a US gallon. And the lion's share of that price is the Crown's road fuels tax plus the VAT.
That's not the case with ammunition. These prices are being driven strictly by market forces -- supply and demand.
There's lots of yelling and screaming about how the government is buying up ammo to push prices higher and get it out of the hands of the average gunowner, but that's a bunch of tripe.
Silver00LT
New member
My opinion I believe the 'fear' of the government hoarding ammunition is what caused the shortage that we have now since people hoard it all they can. I think I only have 200 rounds of factory made ammo. That's it...
All it takes is one little fear nerve and everything caves.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"My opinion I believe the 'fear' of the government hoarding ammunition is what caused the shortage"
There was no fear of the government hoarding ammunition in 2007-2009, and yet it was in very short supply.
The initial reports of the Government signing on to purchase up to 1.5 billion rounds of ammo first came out mid last year, yet there was no run on ammo at that time.
In 2007-2009 the fear was that whatever Democrat was elected would immediately push for draconian gun control laws.
Fear of the government buying up all the ammo didn't push the high firearms sale rate at that time.
This time around the cause was the shootings in Newtown and the Government response.
If it were just fear of the Government purchasing all of the ammo, gun sales wouldn't have spiked massively the way they did, and the way they continue to sell.
The only people who are hoarding ammo in the belief that the Government is trying to buy it all are those who are either incapable of understanding, or simply won't accept, the actual truth behind the 1.5 billion purchase contracts.
People are spreading unfounded and unnecessary fear on that subject, and have no comprehension of the actual mechanics of government purchasing or the capabilities of the companies that manufacture ammunition.
IF, and I say IF, the Government actually wanted to do something like that to control the civilian flow of ammunition, they would have to order probably along the lines of 1.5 billion rounds a MONTH, not spread over a 5 year contract vehicle.
There was no fear of the government hoarding ammunition in 2007-2009, and yet it was in very short supply.
The initial reports of the Government signing on to purchase up to 1.5 billion rounds of ammo first came out mid last year, yet there was no run on ammo at that time.
In 2007-2009 the fear was that whatever Democrat was elected would immediately push for draconian gun control laws.
Fear of the government buying up all the ammo didn't push the high firearms sale rate at that time.
This time around the cause was the shootings in Newtown and the Government response.
If it were just fear of the Government purchasing all of the ammo, gun sales wouldn't have spiked massively the way they did, and the way they continue to sell.
The only people who are hoarding ammo in the belief that the Government is trying to buy it all are those who are either incapable of understanding, or simply won't accept, the actual truth behind the 1.5 billion purchase contracts.
People are spreading unfounded and unnecessary fear on that subject, and have no comprehension of the actual mechanics of government purchasing or the capabilities of the companies that manufacture ammunition.
IF, and I say IF, the Government actually wanted to do something like that to control the civilian flow of ammunition, they would have to order probably along the lines of 1.5 billion rounds a MONTH, not spread over a 5 year contract vehicle.
CharlieDeltaJuliet
New member
Saleen322, I recently bought SK/Lapua .22 from Grafs & Sons. It was $456. I thought that exactly right for 5k rounds. It is what I paid pre-panic. I was running low and they came through in a pinch. Keep an eye on them if you need more.
Here Eley Team, Match, and Tenex are around $10, $14.50, and $19 respectively per 50 round box. Those prices have been stable for the most part. As to why buy in quantity, in my area you can't go to most local gun shops and buy even mid-level .22 ammo. Therefore, at least in my case, it makes sense to buy it by the case as it has to be shipped to you. The biggest demand is for cheap .22 LR and that is what is stocked 99% of the time in the LGS and that is where the prices fluctuate so much. Similarly, if you compete in center fire pistol you can go through 1000s of rounds in a short period of time between practice and matches so you want to keep some on hand.
I went to a big box sporting good store yesterday and took a glance at the ammo they had 7mm, 270, 30-06, 12g, 20g and the handguns were 2/3s back to normal stock, rifles were back to full stock. The sales people were bored and unbusy which was unusual on a Saturday afternoon.
Seem like things are returning to normal.
Seem like things are returning to normal.
When the shelves are empty most of the time it's hard not to buy when you run across a caliber you shoot. I was amazed to find a Remington value pack of 250 rd. of 45ACP at WalMart yesterday. Of course I bought it. Price wasn't bad either, just over $100. Could I have gone with out it? Sure. But never know when I might have a chance to find it again at a reasonable choice.
I know quite a few people that are getting up on Saturday morning before 7:00 to line up at the local Sportsmans Warehouse innn order to get a look at the latest shipment of ammo. It's gonna take a while for that mentality (and need in many cases) to subside.
I know quite a few people that are getting up on Saturday morning before 7:00 to line up at the local Sportsmans Warehouse innn order to get a look at the latest shipment of ammo. It's gonna take a while for that mentality (and need in many cases) to subside.
22-rimfire
New member
I think the Senate voting down of proposed gun control legislation has helped a great deal to calm people's fear reaction/instinct. Legislation or proposed legislation will continue, but Presidents really don't want a lot of failed legislation proposals that they really support and push to happen. Looks bad for them; no power or influence. That is probably why the President didn't actively push such gun control legislation early in his first term.
The ammunition shortage started with the re-election of our President in November. At that time, gun sales shot through the roof to record sales highs based on NICS checks performed. It was also the Christmas season buying time.
Then Newtown CT incident happened and the politicans began stomping their feet. NY quickly passed very restrictive gun control legislation. Since then, MD and CO have passed restrictive legislation. You had the ongoing debate in Congress and the media about gun control. The proposed legislation died in the Senate and everyone knew that it was going to be a more difficult road to hoe in the House. Well, those House members didn't get subjected to the intense pressure from the President and their Party when they knew the legislation could influence their future public careers.
It's late May 2013 now and 6 months after the re-election of the President. There is little talk on the News networks about gun control, and inventories are up with black rifles at you local gunshop and prices are down. I would suspect sales of those kinds of weapons are also down relative to Nov > Jan levels.
People who pay attention see inventories of ammunition starting to come back to their local retailers. Prices are coming down, but still elevated over pre-election levels, and inventories will continue to become more robust and suppliers will begin to have popular ammunition in stock for shipment to dealers on request. Things are changing. I expect them to change rapidly in the coming couple of months.
Those that care who would like to maintain a cache of ammunition at home should begin buying on a regular basis in a couple months and start building their cache so that they aren't in the same place as this shortage whether it be firearms or ammunition. Time for some rational buying and planning based on your available resources.
The ammunition shortage started with the re-election of our President in November. At that time, gun sales shot through the roof to record sales highs based on NICS checks performed. It was also the Christmas season buying time.
Then Newtown CT incident happened and the politicans began stomping their feet. NY quickly passed very restrictive gun control legislation. Since then, MD and CO have passed restrictive legislation. You had the ongoing debate in Congress and the media about gun control. The proposed legislation died in the Senate and everyone knew that it was going to be a more difficult road to hoe in the House. Well, those House members didn't get subjected to the intense pressure from the President and their Party when they knew the legislation could influence their future public careers.
It's late May 2013 now and 6 months after the re-election of the President. There is little talk on the News networks about gun control, and inventories are up with black rifles at you local gunshop and prices are down. I would suspect sales of those kinds of weapons are also down relative to Nov > Jan levels.
People who pay attention see inventories of ammunition starting to come back to their local retailers. Prices are coming down, but still elevated over pre-election levels, and inventories will continue to become more robust and suppliers will begin to have popular ammunition in stock for shipment to dealers on request. Things are changing. I expect them to change rapidly in the coming couple of months.
Those that care who would like to maintain a cache of ammunition at home should begin buying on a regular basis in a couple months and start building their cache so that they aren't in the same place as this shortage whether it be firearms or ammunition. Time for some rational buying and planning based on your available resources.
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I just checked their website and although SK Standard Plus is not listed Wolf match-target (same stuff) is listed at $6.99 and is out of stock. While I am sure they give a better price per case, that would work out to $699 a case. There is a bulk SK that costs less but I really don't know much about it as that is not what I have been buying. Here is the link to their page.
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/20044
Mike Irwin
Staff
22-Rimfire,
You're absolutely correct, there's also the second-term "lame duck" election factor that was at work before Newtown.
You're absolutely correct, there's also the second-term "lame duck" election factor that was at work before Newtown.
I also agree with your post 22-Rimfire. The question I have is how do we explain this past April being the 35th consecutive month of increased firearm sales? This is close to two years prior to this past Fall and early Winter months you mentioned. 
I attribute it to the concern of citizens with the reduction of law enforcement budgets from our economic down-turn. People know their local communities, for the most part, have had to trim police forces therefore response times.
Still, some do not seem to understand why there is a munitions shortage. People do not buy new firearms without buying ammuntion.
There is a larger market and not so much the hoarders and even conspiracy theories. Fear is a major factor, and then we can debate the various factors creating the apprehension.
I attribute it to the concern of citizens with the reduction of law enforcement budgets from our economic down-turn. People know their local communities, for the most part, have had to trim police forces therefore response times.
Still, some do not seem to understand why there is a munitions shortage. People do not buy new firearms without buying ammuntion.
There is a larger market and not so much the hoarders and even conspiracy theories. Fear is a major factor, and then we can debate the various factors creating the apprehension.
This is without a doubt the best post I've seen so far in this thread.
CharlieDeltaJuliet
New member
Saleen322, this was week and a half ago. I have aready received it. Just keep an eye on their site, the lady I spoke with expected to run the same sale very soon again. I cannot complain, they processed and shipped I the same week. The do not charge shipping, they charge a $6.95 flare rate handling fee. I do not think they even list it unless the get it in. I have never seen it here before unless it is one of their 5k round sales...
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