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Still shooting left
- Thread starter hr636
- Start date
So I just remembered that there was a guy in the last class I took that had a similar issue. In working with him the instructor suggested that was happening was that he was squeezing his whole hand as that trigger was breaking instead of just isolating his trigger finger. The end result was the pistol torqued slightly counter clockwise as the bottom three fingers applied force to the grip. He had good grips, they were just all to the left. He had some success with moving his groups back to the right when he focused on this.
Again it's hard imo to make judgements from still photos but might be worth focusing on the next time at the range. Also there are demons that come up during live fire that won't show up in dry fire. None of these tips are really definitive guarantees, just ideas to try.
Again it's hard imo to make judgements from still photos but might be worth focusing on the next time at the range. Also there are demons that come up during live fire that won't show up in dry fire. None of these tips are really definitive guarantees, just ideas to try.
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https://youtu.be/AwU1tkzMYCo
Looking through the camera so obviously sights aren't perfectly aligned.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Looking through the camera so obviously sights aren't perfectly aligned.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
g.willikers
New member
From your video, it's pretty clear that pulling the trigger on an empty pistol is not showing the problem.
Then, as Sherlock would say, it's obviously something else.
But trying to figure it out from us, long distance, is going to be mighty difficult.
We can try, though.
What's confounding is you say it happens even when shooting off the bench.
And that is the place to begin.
Are you using bags and keeping the front of the pistol clear of anything it can bounce off of?
A bag can support your hands, but not put pressure on the rest of the pistol or the recoil will jolt the gun.
Then, as Sherlock would say, it's obviously something else.
But trying to figure it out from us, long distance, is going to be mighty difficult.
We can try, though.
What's confounding is you say it happens even when shooting off the bench.
And that is the place to begin.
Are you using bags and keeping the front of the pistol clear of anything it can bounce off of?
A bag can support your hands, but not put pressure on the rest of the pistol or the recoil will jolt the gun.
crankyoldlady
New member
Do you look at your target after each shot?
During practice, I do better if I do not look at the target until I am finished with the string.
During practice, I do better if I do not look at the target until I am finished with the string.
g.willikers
New member
^^^^
Yes, it's called follow through.
Keep your eyes on the sights, but don't try to see where the hits are on the target.
You should actually know where the hits are by watching the sights through out the trigger pull and recoil.
Really good shooters know exactly where their bullets went by "calling the shot."
If you are doing it correctly, the sights should rise with the shot and then fall back down where they started.
Are you seeing the sights rise and fall?
That in itself can tell you a lot, right there.
Yes, it's called follow through.
Keep your eyes on the sights, but don't try to see where the hits are on the target.
You should actually know where the hits are by watching the sights through out the trigger pull and recoil.
Really good shooters know exactly where their bullets went by "calling the shot."
If you are doing it correctly, the sights should rise with the shot and then fall back down where they started.
Are you seeing the sights rise and fall?
That in itself can tell you a lot, right there.
Yes, I'm watching the sights as I'm resetting the trigger and when I have an acceptable sight picture squeezing the trigger again. I can shoot with both eyes open, or one eye. I'll try to get to the range this week and see if I can try some of this stuff.^^^^
Yes, it's called follow through.
Keep your eyes on the sights, but don't try to see where the hits are on the target.
You should actually know where the hits are by watching the sights through out the trigger pull and recoil.
Really good shooters know exactly where their bullets went by "calling the shot."
If you are doing it correctly, the sights should rise with the shot and then fall back down where they started.
Are you seeing the sights rise and fall?
That in itself can tell you a lot, right there.
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crankyoldlady
New member
A shooter can take too long trying to get the "perfect" sight picture.
Holding the firearm steady is physically impossible. Your hands will always move in a figure 8 pattern. You cannot see it but it is happening.
This is why snipers shoot between breaths.
I find that coming up on target, getting a quick sight picture, and taking my shot works best.
Holding the firearm steady is physically impossible. Your hands will always move in a figure 8 pattern. You cannot see it but it is happening.
This is why snipers shoot between breaths.
I find that coming up on target, getting a quick sight picture, and taking my shot works best.
Yep that's what i meant by acceptable sight picture. I focus on the front sight and when I have it in the general area of my intended poi I press the trigger. I could probably use to pay a little more attention but they say your eye automatically puts the front sight in alignment with the rear when you focus on it.A shooter can take too long trying to get the "perfect" sight picture.
Holding the firearm steady is physically impossible. Your hands will always move in a figure 8 pattern. You cannot see it but it is happening.
This is why snipers shoot between breaths.
I find that coming up on target, getting a quick sight picture, and taking my shot works best.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
A shooter can take too long trying to get the "perfect" sight picture.
Holding the firearm steady is physically impossible. Your hands will always move in a figure 8 pattern. You cannot see it but it is happening.
This is why snipers shoot between breaths.
I find that coming up on target, getting a quick sight picture, and taking my shot works best.
This is true but then you'd have a figure 8, infinity sign, or circular pattern around the POA, not a shift in POI as well.
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g.willikers
New member
Aha, we have a clue.
You should be watching the sights through out each and every shot.
Watch them rise with recoil and then be sure to watch where they go as they come back down.
Do this for each and every shot, regardless of how fast or slow you are shooting.
That can tell you if you are throwing shots to the left.
What you describe you are doing won't accomplish it.
It will allow you to put subsequent shots back on target, but it won't help fix what needs fixing.
See how difficult it is to help long distance?
You might need a genuine instructor standing beside you.
Maybe the reason you're not curing this is you haven't sought the real deal in instructors.
You might be missing the essence of watching the sights.I'm watching the sights as I'm resetting the trigger and when I have an acceptable sight picture squeezing the trigger again.
You should be watching the sights through out each and every shot.
Watch them rise with recoil and then be sure to watch where they go as they come back down.
Do this for each and every shot, regardless of how fast or slow you are shooting.
That can tell you if you are throwing shots to the left.
What you describe you are doing won't accomplish it.
It will allow you to put subsequent shots back on target, but it won't help fix what needs fixing.
See how difficult it is to help long distance?
You might need a genuine instructor standing beside you.
Maybe the reason you're not curing this is you haven't sought the real deal in instructors.
I just worded that wrong. I am watching my sights as the handgun recoils I usually shoot with both eyes open, and I trained for combat shooting. I passed an fbi qual first try in half the time allotted, so I'm not really a terrible shooter. I will hire someone when I have a little more disposable income to see if I can get this figured out.Aha, we have a clue.
You might be missing the essence of watching the sights.
You should be watching the sights through out each and every shot.
Watch them rise with recoil and then be sure to watch where they go as they come back down.
Do this for each and every shot, regardless of how fast or slow you are shooting.
That can tell you if you are throwing shots to the left.
What you describe you are doing won't accomplish it.
It will allow you to put subsequent shots back on target, but it won't help fix what needs fixing.
See how difficult it is to help long distance?
You might need a genuine instructor standing beside you.
Maybe the reason you're not curing this is you haven't sought the real deal in instructors.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
And by the way the instructor was a retired air marshal. We didn't spend much one on one time though.I just worded that wrong. I am watching my sights as the handgun recoils I usually shoot with both eyes open, and I trained for combat shooting. I passed an fbi qual first try in half the time allotted, so I'm not really a terrible shooter. I will hire someone when I have a little more disposable income to see if I can get this figured out.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
For some reason I can't edit my posts on this app
That's actually okay.
The additional posts are not a problem. I'd much rather have that than when folk go back and change a previous post or add new stuff to a previous post. Sometimes that causes confusion.
So by your argument you do everything correctly as best as you can tell and yet the results are the results. Try what some told you I guess, but not sure what we can do for you as it seems like you already addressed the typical problems. Again dry fire doesn't always show the problem and there must be a problem unless every pistol you have shot had misaligned sights.
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This is why I'm wondering it's some how a problem with my eye sight. I have terrible astigmatism and wear glasses. Could I be seeing the sights differently than other people?So by your argument you do everything correctly as best as you can tell and yet the results are the results. Try what some told you I guess, but not sure what we can do for you as it seems like you already addressed the typical problems. Again dry fire doesn't always show the problem and there must be a problem unless every pistol you have shot had misaligned sights.
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I also have an astigmatism and am cross eye dominant, but that doesn't mean our eye sight is comparable and yours could well be worse. For me the result of my astigmatism is a somewhat blurry sight picture. With glasses I see the front pistol sight fine but the target is blurry, with glasses I have the reverse problem (in talking to an optometrist it's a focal plane issue). The net benefit of the glasses is still definitely positive. Frankly if the issue were your eyes I'd expect the problem to affect you in other parts of life than just shooting (really anything hand-eye related). But I'm not on optometrist and it couldn't hurt going to see one.
And frankly I don't think we've ruled out technique being a potential issue. Not thinking you're doing something wrong is pretty common in shooting problems.
I can certainly understand the frustration, but diagnosing someone over the internet isn't easy.
And frankly I don't think we've ruled out technique being a potential issue. Not thinking you're doing something wrong is pretty common in shooting problems.
I can certainly understand the frustration, but diagnosing someone over the internet isn't easy.
Does the same thing happen when you shoot off bags from the bench? I know my own two-eyes-open POI shift from when I close the weak eye. I think the brain tries to integrate the two images to some extent, in which case drifting the sight is reasonable. However, if shooting off the bags doesn't do it, do some partner shooting with the other person operating the trigger so you get a true surprise break and absolutely eliminate any chance you are covering a muscle contraction up with recoil.
Try a couple of other things:
Set up targets for dry-fire, get a good sight picture, then have your significant other block your weak eye's view with a hand. See if the POA changes.
Cut out a piece of milk carton and at the range use it to cover the weak eye side of your shooting glasses by holding it in place with a rubber band. The translucent plastic won't cause your strong side iris to dilate as much as an opaque one does because it lets a fair amount of light through. Run your usual shooting drills again.
Put up a target backwards so it is just white paper. Practice watching the front sight jump up and return. When it returns, is it very close to the correct sight picture? If it always comes down obscured by one of the rear sight leaves on the same side, your grip is biasing the recoil and that can throw the shot off. Adjust the gun in your grip until it comes down an average of in the middle. That is, if it's off a little, that's not unusual. But to test for zero net grip bias, it should be off to the right about as often as to the left.
The suggestion to shoot left-handed has no flies on it. It's a common target shooting tactic for cross-dominant people. Often, the weak side trigger finger actually does a better job of isolating its index finger movement. While it takes some getting used to, you may find you shoot better this way in general.
Try a couple of other things:
Set up targets for dry-fire, get a good sight picture, then have your significant other block your weak eye's view with a hand. See if the POA changes.
Cut out a piece of milk carton and at the range use it to cover the weak eye side of your shooting glasses by holding it in place with a rubber band. The translucent plastic won't cause your strong side iris to dilate as much as an opaque one does because it lets a fair amount of light through. Run your usual shooting drills again.
Put up a target backwards so it is just white paper. Practice watching the front sight jump up and return. When it returns, is it very close to the correct sight picture? If it always comes down obscured by one of the rear sight leaves on the same side, your grip is biasing the recoil and that can throw the shot off. Adjust the gun in your grip until it comes down an average of in the middle. That is, if it's off a little, that's not unusual. But to test for zero net grip bias, it should be off to the right about as often as to the left.
The suggestion to shoot left-handed has no flies on it. It's a common target shooting tactic for cross-dominant people. Often, the weak side trigger finger actually does a better job of isolating its index finger movement. While it takes some getting used to, you may find you shoot better this way in general.
Put up a target backwards so it is just white paper. Practice watching the front sight jump up and return. When it returns, is it very close to the correct sight picture? If it always comes down obscured by one of the rear sight leaves on the same side, your grip is biasing the recoil and that can throw the shot off. Adjust the gun in your grip until it comes down an average of in the middle. That is, if it's off a little, that's not unusual. But to test for zero net grip bias, it should be off to the right about as often as to the left.
+1. I've had instructors point out that the harsh truth is the bullet goes where the sights are pointed at the moment the cartridge ignites (assuming the sights are true obviously). If your sight picture after the shot shows a sight alignment problem that can be a pretty good indicator of you as the shooter influencing the shot.