Starbucks: no more open carry

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

SHE3PDOG

New member
http://www.starbucks.com/blog/an-open-letter-from-howard-schultz/1268

It seems as thought pressure from anti gun advocates has created a situation where starbucks no longer feels comfortable actively supporting open carry in their stores. The letter implies that the owner does not particularly want to take this action, but is doing so in order to make all of their customers feel more comfortable.

Could this be a sign of a changing social climate on the subject of firearms? Will this impact Starbucks' business in a positive or negative fashion?
 
I think it's faulty to blame it on pressure of the opposition.

I think entirely what happened was the fault of gun owners who created a "starbucks appreciation day" which was escalated by the MDA group which resulted in arguments, sign waving, and accosting customers. Here is part of what I said on a local page

Regarding the whole Starbucks thing, it was our policy to lose. We as gun owners were asked not to turn Starbucks into a ground for demonstration. They stated they want to remain impartial and both sides still turned it into a demonstration match. If all gun owners had shown up, bought their coffee, tipped well, and left, that should have been the end of it. There shouldn't have been signs and argument (which I think the MDA did worse, but that's besides the point).

My point is, when people ask about demonstrations like parking a mile away from your fishing spot to OC fish, many times they don't understand why executives here say it's a bad idea.

This is why. A demonstration is to win over peoples' opinions. There are good ways to do that and bad ways to do that.

We've found that a bad way to do that is doing so in every state at a major chain who has asked us exactly not to do just that.

I hope what happened with Starbucks makes some people think about what demonstrations will be effective and what will go over the edge.

And above all, know that any time you are associated with a firearm (online or not), you are an ambassador for all of us. Racism, political rants, yelling, sign waving, arguments, or general asshattery by a very vocal few affects all of us in ways that we find it hard to recover from. If you're going to associate yourself with the gun movement, please don't be that vocal few who cause us to go into damage control.
Click to expand...

An important note about this letter: They are not enforcing it in any way and you will not be treated different or asked to leave.

What this tells me, reading in between the lines: If I walked into Starbucks open carrying (where legal), made my order, tipped, and left, I would be no worse for wear. If another customer has a problem with it, they will not ask me to leave and will allow me to continue on my business.

What they will do is shut down on demonstrations pretty much immediately. If there are any problems with customers or fights, you will be shut down immediately. If large groups of people go in with long guns, there may be a problem.

Remember, you are an ambassador to the cause.

This, in my opinion, was entirely a failure on the part of the gun owners and a demonstration that blew up in our faces. The MDA played their part but not without our prodding.
 
While a lot of folks may disagree with me I am not sure the more militant attitudes serve us well. While one dude carrying a gun and sipping a cup of coffee over a good book may go unnoticed a full on “appreciation day” obviously did not. Basically we should be good ambassadors as we live our normal lives and not attempt to manufacture something.
 
This is something I have seen coming for a while. honestly, I can not blame Starbucks. I cant blame them at all. They just want to sell their coffee and that's it. They have never asked to be part of the debate over the second amendment that I know of.

Starbucks said:
We believe that gun policy should be addressed by government and law enforcement—not by Starbucks and our store partners.

Recently, however, we’ve seen the “open carry” debate become increasingly uncivil and, in some cases, even threatening. Pro-gun activists have used our stores as a political stage for media events misleadingly called “Starbucks Appreciation Days” that disingenuously portray Starbucks as a champion of “open carry.” To be clear: we do not want these events in our stores. Some anti-gun activists have also played a role in ratcheting up the rhetoric and friction, including soliciting and confronting our customers and partners.

For these reasons, today we are respectfully requesting that customers no longer bring firearms into our stores or outdoor seating areas—even in states where “open carry” is permitted—unless they are authorized law enforcement personnel.
Click to expand...

I admit that the debate has become uncivil on both sides. Both have tried to use Starbucks as a unwilling pawn in trying to advance his/her own views. One thing I would not have included though is the mention of law enforcement. While it may be a unwritten rule, I will argue that if it matters to enough people who actually support the second amendment, they would support their elected reps removing any restrictions on concealed or open carry between the public and law enforcement. I doubt it will happen, but honestly, unless we stand up as a group for our rights, we will fall together. Not that I am totally in support of "open carry" due to some 'in your face' attitudes, I am very much in support of firearm ownership and carry by any legal means without the attitude.
 
Last edited:
There's nothing like a bunch of angry militant gun owners, strolling around with weaponry in public to give gun owners a good reputation. :rolleyes:

I've never understood those stupid "carry walks" or "let's get together in public with our AR-15s with misspelled signs and in Revolutionary War outfits" or talk about "Second Amendment Solutions". It's all unproductive to civil discourse and makes us look like a bunch of cranks.

Personally I think open-carry in public is silly and mostly a way for grown men to fill their unfulfilled childhood John Wayne dreams. But if you're still going to open-carry, just don't go to Starbucks.
 
This is exactly how I feared it would go.

Starbucks was NOT a willing "ally" in these appreciation days.

Also note that open carry of guns is NOT being banned. The CEO is simply asking customers not to come in if they are wearing a gun.

That's a lot different from a ban.
 
Not that I went there anyway.

sbux.jpeg


Original thread: http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/231283-no-more-guns-welcome-starbucks.html
 
I first saw this on Facebook and as a 20+ year gun carrier (CC), I felt it was most reasonable and polite.

For gun carriers, as for anyone courtesy and respect go a long way.
 
The people who forced this policy change will blame everyone but themselves.

I'd ask them not to send vitriolic letters or make obnoxious posts on the company's Facebook page, but I'd be wasting my time.

I'd ask them not to show up and "push the envelope" by openly carrying, but I'd be wasting my time.

I'd ask them to reconsider their actions and philosophy now that they've handed our opposition a win, but I'd be wasting my time.

I'm not surprised in the least.
 
Hey, I have a crazy idea. Don't open carry! What store wants some of their customers offending another group of customers. Yes, like all of you, I think the offended customers are a bunch of <swear word>.

I'm just thankful that:
1) they are not taking a hard stance and posting no CCW where applicable.
2) they really aren't clearly saying anything stupid about the guns themselves to the media or their employees
3) they are giving gun owners a second chance

So, I ask gun owners....
1) don't be offended
2) concealed is concealed
 
Mike Irwin said:
That's a lot different from a ban.
Click to expand...

On the nose.

This isn't a policy regarding carry inside their stores or how their franchisees should handle it (except that they shouldn't). It is a proclamation that they are agnostic on the issue. They are a "selling coffee organization", not a 2d Am. advocacy organization.

Nothing wrong with that.
 
I live in NY with a carry permit and carry all the time. I see no reason why you would want someone to see your firearm.
 
That's a lot different from a ban.
Click to expand...
According to the letter, the only reason it's not a ban is because the owner doesn't want employees confronting armed customers.

First, this is a request and not an outright ban. Why? Because we want to give responsible gun owners the chance to respect our request—and also because enforcing a ban would potentially require our partners to confront armed customers, and that is not a role I am comfortable asking Starbucks partners to take on.
Click to expand...

concealed is concealed
Click to expand...
I'm not a fan of that tautology, or of the mentality behind it. Acting in defiance of their wishes is what got us this policy in the first place; continuing to do so will result in an outright ban.
 
I definitely don't blame Starbucks for this decision as I'm sure the rallies on both sides made a lot of customers uncomfortable. I'm not against open carry per se, but I don't see much point to it. Overall, Starbucks is handling the situation well by not giving in to one particular side, and they are being quite polite about their request. They have a business to run, and they don't want to get caught up in politics that hurt their company.
 
This is something I have seen coming for a while. honestly, I can not blame Starbucks. I cant blame them at all. They just want to sell their coffee and that's it. They have never asked to be part of the debate over the second amendment that I know of.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%
 
Tom,

With all due respect, I think you should read the letter again. I did not see that at all. In OH, posting a no ccw sign would allow them to use police instead of employees for free to enforce their policy. Maybe we should just respectfully disagree on that point.

Related to "concealed is concealed", that is not what brought us to this point...What brought us to this point are the people open carrying like they were going to an Iraqi open market. If every one of those people could have legally and discretely carried their CCW concealed and bought a coffee, Starbucks would be thrilled. I think if we can follow the law, keep them concealed and buy coffee, they would still be thrilled.

I'm wearing my CCW to Starbucks today legally....and concealed.
 
"I'm wearing my CCW to Starbucks today legally....and concealed."

Yep.

I don't open carry, either. I don't think it to be particularly wise.

That said, unless Starbucks starts posting their stores in accordance with any applicable Virginia law, I will continue to carry concealed.

Not welcome has absolutely NO meaning under law.
 
Tom Servo said:
The people who forced this policy change will blame everyone but themselves.

I'd ask them not to send vitriolic letters or make obnoxious posts on the company's Facebook page, but I'd be wasting my time.

I'd ask them not to show up and "push the envelope" by openly carrying, but I'd be wasting my time.

I'd ask them to reconsider their actions and philosophy now that they've handed our opposition a win, but I'd be wasting my time.

I'm not surprised in the least.
Click to expand...

I agree completely.

The irrepressible open carry zealots have brought us yet another loss. This time, the loss of an ally. Starbucks had a reasonable and respectable policy and the zealots had to turn their businesses into the front lines of their personal war. It won't be their fault though, it'll be everyone else's fault. We just can't understand The Chosen Ones.
 
Not welcome has absolutely NO meaning under law.
Click to expand...
True, but their wishes are that we not carry, just like their wishes were that folks not turn their locations into staging areas for political actions.

We've shown ourselves to be inconsiderate of their wishes once. If we keep doing so, they will ban guns altogether.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top