Spring tension saving (Taurus PT92/Beretta92): hammer on half cock safety notch or all way down?

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Hi all owners of an Taurus PT 92 or Beretta 92 pistol.

I have a single question.

Which is the propper way to store the pistol considering longevity of springs.

The hammer in the safety cock notch or all the way down onto the firing pin?

There is no round in the chamber
 
well this comes down to the debate about magazines wearing out by keeping them loaded.

I won't touch on that hot button topic.

I will tell you that hammer down is where the spring(s) is most relaxed and let you take it as you will.
 
If I use the half safety cock the hammer spring is on Tension.

If I use the hammer all the way down the firing pin spring is on Tension.

In order to not have the Extractor spring on Tension I leave the chamber empty.

I wonder which the manufacturers recommend for carry with empty chamber but loaded magazine.
 
I see you're worried about the firing pin spring?
don't be tension on it is minimal.

There is no way to completely relieve tension on the hammer, the hammer, even when it's down there is still some tension if you ever have to change springs you'll find you'll have to slightly compress the cap to be able to drive the pin in..

The firing pin barely pushes in before the hammer meets the slide's surface.
The gun fires because of the sharp impulse the hammer imparts on the firing pin.
The firing pin it self must travel a lot further past flush with the slide face in order to come out the other wise and strike a primer, so even if the hammer is resting on it.. it's probably only about 25% of the firing pins total travel.

pro-tip, Unless things have changed with production

Hammer cap pins:
Beretta / Italian 92's have roll pins
Beretta / USA 92's have sold pins
Taurus 92's have roll pins

do your self a favor if you ever need to change your spring and put in a solid pin unless you already have a US made 92.

the roll pin is a throw back to the 92sb where the heal mag release exposed the roll pin at the bottom.. completely redundant now that it's hidden under grips and a real pita to deal with.

P.S:
Same thing with extractor, trigger, recoil spring, etc.. even at rest they're still under some tension.

in fact there is no spring in the gun that is ever completely relaxed while assembled.
 
I would then say it is better to have the hammer on the safety half cock.
Would that be a good desicion?

I am not considering me competent enough to Change some springs on this gn (I have the Taurus PT 92 AFS).
Over here we have no trustworthy gunsmiths for repairing the gun (fear of Messing up the gun. Maybe your latino-experience in the US are a bit different but here they rather steal you some parts out of the gun and fix ya up for a week in order to get more Business if you send it in again).
I am not dealing there with punchin out some roll Pins and maybe damagin the aluminum Frame.

The Shooting experience (less recoil) of this gun is way superior to all other guns I believe. However I would not want to go for an Taurus PT 1911 all steel 40 oz gun since it is more weight. This 34 oz gun is not heavy to carry and just about the right compromise between recoil Management and carry weight.
 
Not sure about the Beretta, but half cock is generally there only to catch the hammer if it slips while thumb-cocking. It is not the way to carry or leave the gun.

Wear on any spring in the gun is negligible, so it doesn't matter if you leave it cocked, uncocked, chamber empty, slide locked back, whatever.
The only way any of the springs won't have some tension on them is to completely disassemble the gun.
 
Taurus is a little bit tricky cause they put that nasty internal lock right thru the backstrap and hammer spring cap.. on that particular gun the way it works is it turns a metal cylnder that blocks the hammer strut from moving down.. can't fully cock hammer..

it's completely doable changing the spring if you ever need to but you just have to watch out for a small ball bearing..

uh.. anyway back to your question just to bottom line this for you I store mine hammer down.

But I will say that it does not matter how you store it as far as the springs are concerned, research has shown they wear out due to compression/decompression cycles.

If you have such bad smiths in your area you need to learn to DIY.
sooner or later you will have to repair or replace something, even if it's just springs.. although the only spring you have replace with any regularity is the recoil spring.. and sometimes the trigger springs break but not often.
 
Dear Sixpack,

:pMost sure is a Sixpack hasn't spring Tension to worry about, isn't it?:D

So you expect to break something in the gun?
That worries me.
The gun breakage you refer to Beretta 92 or Taurus PT 92? Is one more prone to something breaks?
 
Given the level of concern you seem to show for wearing out a pistol you just got in terms of feeling the need for shok buffers, drowning the pistol in grease and oil, bemoaning the death of the frame from the smallest loss of anodizing, and now being worried about the mainspring wearing out from simply being in the pistol, I have come up with the best way for you to never worry about wear again. Never shoot the pistol. Just never shoot it. It should last a long time that way.
 
I own a 92fs and it is stored with the hammer all the way down. No half cock

In the military I carried the same M9 for ten years and it was stored with the hammer down. (It was far from new when I got it)

Every M9 in our armory was stored with the hammer down and those guns had been stored that way for many years

I was never aware of a single failure related to spring tension or abnormal wear

I vote hammer all the way down


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
If I can prevent premature failing then I will do all I can to prevent that inconvenience.

I believe I will stay with the safety half notch for carry.
Like that should accidentally be an round in the chamber, the firing pin is not resting against the primer.
However if the safety notch Fails while a round is in the chamber there may be an discharge.
 
Ok. If the Military handles the gun that way that may be the right way to store the gun.

Best of all worlds would be indeed it had a sefety bar like in modern Revolvers. The hammer is not on Tension and the hammer neighter is resting against the firing pin.
 
The Manual of the Taurus does not express itself about storing the gun.

They do not differentiate much between: decock and hammer down as it Looks like this in the Manual:

hammer down/decocked

The safety notch the Manual calls "hammer intercept".

Yes this gun has an firing pin block safety.

Looks like "condition 3" is a way to carry the gun.
 
In answer to the original question about the Taurus semi-auto:

I doubt that leaving a hammer spring cocked will degrade it much. In fact, for most DA/SA guns, firing the gun in DA mode compresses the hammer spring farther than when the spring is locked back in SA mode for fired in SA mode. I wouldn't worry about it. You don't hear of hammer springs failing much...

The following is a rehash of things discussed here on a regular basis, but it continues to come up.

Bill DeShivs said:
Wear on any spring in the gun is negligible, so it doesn't matter if you leave it cocked, uncocked, chamber empty, slide locked back, whatever.

It depends on the gun and it's design.

Were the original poster to leave the slide of his Taurus locked back for an extended period, he might find that the recoil spring has lost a lot of its strength. (A few years ago a participant on this forum told about that happening in his Army NG unit's armory; the NCOIC had to get new recoil springs for nearly all of unit's M9s (a gun that is very similar to the Taurus being discussed) after he had stored them all that way the prior winter.

On the FN Forum shooters who install red-dot optical systems with silencers or compensators on their FNX-45 Tactical semi-autos have found that when the new equipment is installed, the guns suddenly seem to be OVERSPRUNG. They won't cycle! The extra weight of new optical sighting systems and the muffled or redirected gases from silencers or compensators change how the slide and barrel behave.

They also find that there are no lighter recoil spring assemblies available for those guns from the gun maker or in the after-market. Rather than building replacement recoil spring assemblies (using aftermarket prings and guide rods designed for Glocks [which have very siimilar guide rod assembies] most of the shooters have found they can weaken the existing recoil springs by leaving the slides locked back for a week or two (or three). The guns then cycle properly. Most of us don't leave slides locked open, but it can be done and it can be done out of ignorance.

As you well know from other the many discussions about this topic we've had on this forum, some gun designers INTENTIONALLY over-stress certain springs. Why? Because that may be the only way to make a very small gun function as intended. To do that they have to use less metal and push that smaller metal spring harder. The point, however, is that springs can wear out from more than just cycling alone.

The same is likely true with some HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINES, but not all of them. Wolff Springs routinely recommends downloading all hi-cap magazines a round or two if they are to be stored for long periods. This is on the FAQ page! (Wolff doesn't sell more mags when they tell you how to prolong spring life.)

Small recoil springs? Let's talk about the Rohrbaugh R9, which is arguably the smallest 9mm semi-auto available. Leave that slide locked back for a couple of weeks and tell us how well that gun works at its next range session. The R9 recoil spring has a recommended service life of 250 shots -- which is roughly equivalent to running 40 mags through the gun. Rohrbaugh traded off long recoil spring life so that he could build a smaller gun that worked well -- as long as you keep the easily-changed (and relatively inexpensive) recoil springs fresh. I wonder why a R9 spring should only lasts 250 rounds, while some other gun springs may run for thousands of rounds. Cycling alone doesn't necessarily kill springs, but how a spring is used -- even if it's used as intended -- can do it in.

JoeSixpack said:
But I will say that it does not matter how you store it as far as the springs are concerned, research has shown they wear out due to compression/decompression cycles.

Can you cite that research for us? Otherwise your claim is the firearms equivalent of fake news: it sounds right, but there's nothing to back it up. If you can offer research that shows that cycling (and not deep compression) kills springs, you'll have added to our base of knowledge and earned our appreciation.

A number of engineers who participate here, (including a Metallurgist or two) have told us that the long, deep compression of a spring (which can happen when a gun is cycled) is where the damage and wear CAN occur. And if you leave the spring DEEPLY COMPRESSED, the longer it stays that way the greater is the likelihood of damage. But only if the compression pushes the spring to or past the spring's design (elastic) limits.

If you have a full-size 17-round mag and never load it past 10 rounds, that mag spring may outlast both the gun and the shooter, regardless of how many times it is cycled. The spring just won't be pushed anywhere near its design limit. But if that mag is left loaded with 17 rounds for a year or two, you might see a dramatic reduction in spring strength - and in a few cases, the may won't even allow the gun function when used.

It all depends on the spring's design and how the spring is used.

JohnKSa, a Firing Line staff member and also an engineer, has conducted his own research. I think he would disagree with your claim about cycling. Here's a link to some of his work posted on this forum, and his related comments:

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6005156#post6005156

JohnKSa also knows a bit about spring powered air guns, and he has posted links to studies done by experts familiar with those types of springs.

Cycling isn't necessarily a spring killer. Most tappet springs in motor engines will cycle many, many millions of times over their life and never fail -- but they were designed so that they can't be over compressed. Most gun springs are like that, too, but there are exceptions -- cited above.
 
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Regards the Magazine I strongly believe this 17 round mag will not allow 17 rounds to push in.

I got only 15 rounds in the mag with very big hardship.

Max 15 rounds will anyways be laoded in theses magazines.
 
Any tension problem is going to be so slight as to be not worth worrying about.

Why not keep a record and let us know in 500 years or so how things work out and if there is any weakening of the spring?

Jim
 
And here we go again. Another needless thread by southamericguy about a non issue concerning his Beretta knock off gun.

I believe I will stay with the safety half notch for carry.

And once again no matter what anyone tells you you are going to do what you intended to do all along. All you want is validation of your goofy ideas about your gun.

The Manual of the Taurus does not express itself about storing the gun.

They probably assume everyone is smart enough to just lower the hammer and forget about it. It has built in safeties that allow it to be carried with a round chambered and the hammer down. That is safe and has the least pressure on the hammer spring. But it is also designed to be carried cocked and locked without worry to the hammer spring.

But for you maybe its best that if you aren't going to shoot it for a couple of days to completely disassemble the gun. Then coat all the parts in cosmoline and store it in an airtight vault until you decide to go shoot your allotted 12 rounds every two weeks. That should make the gun last forever.:rolleyes:
 
It's not so simple.

If the Magazine springs weaken in 1 or 2 years ,any other spring may do that as well.
And if that happens, I may regret not having discussed/detailed this throughly (even if it sounds lunatic) or have taken the wrong choice: hammer spring vs firing pin spring.

There are no dumb questions, but only a dumb ass makes an error due to not asking before a question

It is a valid discussion.

;)I did today an gruesome range session of a whooping 4 rounds.:D
 
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