Speed vs Accuracy

First, I have comment "I practice reloading my magazines fast"

You do? I just use a mag loader, 1 round at a time, no hurry, no sense getting sore thumbs
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I used to go to the range with about a dozen magazines there were pre-loaded. One day I read a story written by a LEO that normally carried two spare mags and a back-up gun. The reader's digest version is the firefight lasted 59 seconds in which he expanded all the ammo he had except one round. I got to thinking that my EDC gun is in Condition One with 9 rounds. My two spare mags have a total of 16 rounds. One would think that is adequate however, the LEO that wrote his story said his magazines held 17 rounds each. I think that the probability of expending all my ammo is very slim but why not practice for something I hope will never happen. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I usually have a couple of boxes of ammo in a range bag all the time.

I have developed a lot of thumb strength and can load a magazine a helluva lot faster than the guys that use mag loaders. Yup, my thumb hurt in the beginning but it no longer gets sore.
 
Speed without accuracy is a waste of perfectly good ammo. What good is being fast if you are unable to hit your target?
 
What good is being fast if you are unable to hit your target?
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What good is being accurate, if youre dead because you were taking your time trying to get that perfect shot?

You need to find that happy medium of both, and accept that good hits, although not perfect, are good enough, especially when they come in bursts.
 
AK103K said:
What good is being accurate, if youre dead because you were taking your time trying to get that perfect shot?

You need to find that happy medium of both, and accept that good hits, although not perfect, are good enough, especially when they come in bursts.
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It's important to note that a good marksman takes the "good enough" shot because they actually see the shot will be good enough, and lands the shot true. This is much different than shooting quickly while hoping for the best.

It's because we limit our definition of "marksmanship" to purely 10-ring hits or small groups that we get into the "speed vs accuracy" debate.

A marksman - the "good shooter" - simply sees what they need to see, when they need to see it, and breaks the shot cleanly. As such, they'll do respectively well slowly shooting a bullseye target as well as shooting CoM hits when time matters. A shooter than can't do both has a big hole in their repertoire.
 
A shooter that can't do both has a big hole in their repertoire.
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Still working on the speed part myself.

I shoot good groups. Always have. I was accurate from the day I first picked up a handgun (21 years old). And I can shoot tight groups with some speed; but I'd stop short of saying "fast." I've always taken an "accuracy first" approach. But the speed seems to come more slowly and less naturally.

I got into action shooting sports just under four years ago. Prior to that, most all my shooting experience has been standing stationary, shooting at a stationary bullseye. It probably doesn't help that I'm battling against age now - I'm almost 53. I do all my action shooting with a revolver btw. I do have one thing going for me though: When I miss, I'm almost never surprised. I usually know upon hammerfall that my shot went errant - and where.

I feel I'm at a bit of a plateau with speed. I'm completely self taught (save a couple Miculek u-tube videos) and struggling to get to the next level.
 
What good is being accurate, if youre dead because you were taking your time trying to get that perfect shot?

You need to find that happy medium of both, and accept that good hits, although not perfect, are good enough, especially when they come in bursts.
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A hit with a .22 is better than a loud miss with a .44
 
A hit with a .22 is better than a loud miss with a .44
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I think youre missing the point.

Neither matter, if youre dead, because you didnt respond in a timely manner, because you were trying to shoot perfect bullseye groups, when you should have been making fast, but decent, bad guy hits. ;)
 
As I mentioned, a slow hit is better than two fast misses. The original posting was eluding to practice accuracy while increasing speed. It has taken me years to be very fast and very accurate.

If your not accurate, speed means nothing.
 
A slow hit, is only good, if you make it in time. If you take to long in attempting to make that hit, because thats how you practice and shoot, accuracy likely wont matter.

You need a reasonable and realistic balance. The reason we practice, is for the real thing, is it not? Or are we just taking sport shooting here, with the enemy being bulls eye targets and a clock?

Accuracy is just the basics being applied, speed comes with repetition, to the point of "no thought" in the action. Combining the two, is the Zen. :)

This is the result of Speed and Accuracy
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Same here, with a draw and movement, and many with no sights at all included. :)

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Whether practicing for self defense or steel challenge my wife and I practice at "speed" on smaller targets. It's my belief that whatever accuracy you think you're achieving at a range will deteriorate under both life threatening or competition stress. Edge hits in practice are not good enogh.
 
I start off with a full magazine and take some slow bulls-eye, or attempted bulls-eye, shots at 7-yards or so. After I'm warmed up I practice speed; from draw to fire until empty. I'm happy to get all of my rounds into an 8-inch plate at 21-25 feet.

I usually take a 10-20 minute break, grab a drink, bum a cigarette or something, and then come back to speed.

To wind down I go back to slow bulls-eye.
 
My view on speed vs accuracy is that a good shot is more important than a fast shot. I shoot IDPA and you need somewhat of both. Most of the good shooters there can do (18 Shots) 15 to 18 seconds, I am more around 20 to 25 seconds, but my points down are 0.000 (no misses, no targets not neutralized).

I can get my first shot off in 1.0 to 1.5 seconds.

You tell me if my extra 10 seconds is too long?

Stay safe and be well.
Jim
 
Posted by Jim243:
I shoot IDPA .... Most of the good shooters there can do (18 Shots) 15 to 18 seconds, I am more around 20 to 25 seconds, but my points down are 0.000 (no misses, no targets not neutralized).
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I'm not sure how or why anyone would still be shooing after 25 seconds in a lawful use of force encounter.

You tell me if my extra 10 seconds is too long?
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How far can an assailant moving at 5 meters per second move in 20 to 25 seconds?
 
If your not accurate, speed means nothing.
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I would change that to read: If your not accurate, speed means less.

The reason being because even if you are not very accurate, if there are multiple ricochets and whizzes by the BG, in quick succession, they're probably going to be a lot more distracted.

So yes, while a hit on a BG might end the threat quickly, a BG who is ducking and diving while losing bowel control because of a mag-dumped in their general vicinity will still cease to be a threat also.

At the end of the day it is about ending the threat, hits or not.
 
It depends on what your goals are. My focus is on combat shooting. All the accuracy in the world won't matter if I'm killed first. On the other hand all the speed in the world won't matter if I can't hit the target. I don't need all my holes touching, in fact, that isn't desirable at all to me.

Learn to shoot as fast as you can (including drawing from your holster) while maintaining acceptable accuracy. Practice this in unconventional stances and positions. A person can rush in and slash you to pieces in a horrifyingly short amount of time. You need to be fast and constantly aware.
 
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As I mentioned, a slow hit is better than two fast misses. The original posting was eluding to practice accuracy while increasing speed. It has taken me years to be very fast and very accurate.

If your not accurate, speed means nothing.
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I agree.............:cool:
 
Shooting in a department store is different than shooting at a range

I know that you need speed and accuracy, but the speed should not be just about presenting your firearm and shooting. What concerns me is crowds and backgrounds.
Speed needs to represent the entire process- recognition, presentation, considering alternatives, considering the entire environment 360 degrees, not missing, and not being a stationary bull's eye target myself. I doubt there will be many quick draw situations, or the need for multiple magazines or reloading magazines, BUT anything is possible.

I worry about hitting a good guy as much as a bad one, so as you practice speed & accuracy also practice seeing the big and little things around you. It very different hitting a picture of a hog, than the real hog that may be in a pasture with cows and horses and a house on the other side of those trees, just like a shopping mall.
 
Actually a slow hit only works if your opponent is even slower at getting good hits.

Learn to, as Bill Jordan said, 'Take your time, fast.'

Deaf
 
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