1911_Hardball
New member
The Kel-Tec and Ruger .380s are delayed blowback.
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Speaking of the .380 Auto???
- Thread starter Sanch
- Start date
Been pocket carrying a P3AT for years and it's my preferred carry option for both method and gun. I have other options to carry IWB, but I prefer pocket carry the best. It's how I train and I'm fairly smooth with drawing from the pocket. With today's ammo options I don't feel undergunned with a .380.
I get your point but... except for the miraculous Seecamp. Started as a .25acp, adapted to the .32acp then, by virtue of better metallurgy, morphed into a .380acp. All in the same size pistol.
LCP and .380 Seecamp
Problem is how reliable is Seecamp? I saw two youtube the slide blew off, a few jamming.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
I can't speak for Seecamp pistols made after Larry Seecamp sold the company but, when the company was owned and operated by the Seecamps (Larry and his father, Louis, before him) the Seecamp was THE micro pistol to own. They were almost impossible to buy and they always had a waiting list. The Seecamp was la creme de la creme.
Bill DeShivs
New member
The Seecamp could have been made smaller in .25 acp.
I can't speak for Seecamp pistols made after Larry Seecamp sold the company but, when the company was owned and operated by the Seecamps (Larry and his father, Louis, before him) the Seecamp was THE micro pistol to own. They were almost impossible to buy and they always had a waiting list. The Seecamp was la creme de la creme.
I can't speak for Seecamp today, I actually had one in my hand 30+ years ago, a 32. Workmanship was rough, the feedramp was not polished at all. Metal were very thin for 32 already, I cannot imagine the 380.
It is still very hard to get today, they don't seems to want volume production. It's going to cost an arm and a leg.
As I said many times, I take each individual youtube or people's experience as a grain of salt, BUT collectively, if there's a lot of complains, that becomes a statistic regardless of what any particular reason of each complain. Seecamp is very rare, with the numbers of complain, slide blew off, miss fired, jams. I won't tough it at all.
I am sure if I get a Seecamp or Kahr, I can make it work reliably no matter what. BUT to what end? I have to go through the process of finding out what fails, go home to fix some, try again in the range, then go home and work on it more. It will likely takes like 3 to 4 cycles to get it fixed. Each time say 100 rounds, $20 per hour in the range(yes, it's that expensive here). That likely will cost like another $600 or more just to fix the gun. At this time, where to get so many rounds? Also, I am sure I have to end up buying some recoil spring, extractor and some other things to replace. $$$$
I cannot even do reloads are this is a defense gun, you don't use reloads. You have to qualify with the ammo you are going to use for self defense, $$$$
if you have a Milford made LWS you find less than your expectations, I will take it off your hands depending upon negotiated price.
https://ibb.co/9nGSFrg
https://ibb.co/9nGSFrg
I've owned a bunch of .380's over the years, and still have some very quality made versions. Once I bought an EZ .380 S&W, there is no looking back. I can carry it and never even remember it being on my belt it's so light, and it shoots great ! I can hold it on a target and empty it very fast with very little recoil. Love it !!
Urbanrecon
Moderator
It will be interesting to compare the sig p365 in .380 to the s&w ez .380. I'm guessing the sig will be more desirable.
The .380 isn't going away because it serves two markets. The first is people who want an acceptable defensive caliber in the smallest shootable platform (P3AT, LCP). The second (which includes me) is people who need a softer shooting gun (G42, P238, Shield EZ, SIG P290RS) due to physical infirmities. BTW, I included the P290RS even though it's no longer in production because it's my EDC. And it's a very soft shooting gun.
I'll be standing in line when the P365-380 is released.
I'll be standing in line when the P365-380 is released.
Ignition Override
New member
.380 Muzzle energy is basically identical with (or more than) energy from the world-reknown 9x18 Makarov round, still used in conflicts all over the world.
Modern firearms technology, computer aided design, and computer aided manufacturing, subcompact firearms chambered for the 9MM seem to be rising to dominate the category of CCW handguns. Some of these mighty midget handguns have 3" barrels and tip scales at 16 oz and less. A few accommodate mags that hold 10 rounds. What will these mighty midget handguns do to demand for .380 Auto handguns?. The advantages the .380 Auto had over the 9MM was smaller size and lighter weights. Those advantages have been obliterated.
I'm surprised that the 10MM has lingered after Jeff Cooper abandoned it and returned to his beloved 1911-A1 .45 ACP. Cooper was the father of factory production of the 10MM and carried one for a few years before returning to his 1911-A1 .45 ACP.
Cartridge predictions can be a dicey game. Due to shrinking production of 10MM handguns which reflects weakening demand, the 10MM is living on borrowed time. Mighty midget handguns chambered for the 9MM might put the .380 Auto on life support.
What's your theory? How would you defend it?
The 380 will always be a viable caliber. What I find more laughable is your comment that the 10mm round is diminishing. Over the last couple years, I see it as taking off and doing the opposite of what you suggest.
I've actually fallen into an odd mindset that essentially goes like this...
For the smallest, lightest, most easy to carry firearm, I reach for the Ruger LCP. If more is needed, then I bypass 9mm Luger altogether and reach for a .40cal.
From 2016 to 2019 I carried .380 ACP exclusively, confident in its ability to get the job done. In 2018 I began contemplating carrying something more powerful because there were increasing instances of wild animals emerging from the woods surrounding the area in which I live. On day my mother called me over, told me a story about how she had seen a hog in the neighbor's field while walking her dogs, and asked me what she should carry to deal with one. I recommended a .357 Magnum revolver and that's what she carries to this day. I wanted a semiautomatic, and ended up with an SW40VE.
Last month I bought a S&W Performance Center M&P40 Shield, which will serve as my carry gun for warmer weather, possibly even all-weather depending on what the future holds in terms of Gun Control.
Generally speaking, .40cal pistols are roughly equal in size/weight to 9mm pistols, so the argument that 9mm Luger will replace .380 ACP because guns can be made nearly as small and lightweight if followed to its logical conclusion that .40 S&W will ultimately replace 9mm because firearms chambered in .40 S&W are roughly the same size as 9mm pistols.
For the smallest, lightest, most easy to carry firearm, I reach for the Ruger LCP. If more is needed, then I bypass 9mm Luger altogether and reach for a .40cal.
From 2016 to 2019 I carried .380 ACP exclusively, confident in its ability to get the job done. In 2018 I began contemplating carrying something more powerful because there were increasing instances of wild animals emerging from the woods surrounding the area in which I live. On day my mother called me over, told me a story about how she had seen a hog in the neighbor's field while walking her dogs, and asked me what she should carry to deal with one. I recommended a .357 Magnum revolver and that's what she carries to this day. I wanted a semiautomatic, and ended up with an SW40VE.
Last month I bought a S&W Performance Center M&P40 Shield, which will serve as my carry gun for warmer weather, possibly even all-weather depending on what the future holds in terms of Gun Control.
Generally speaking, .40cal pistols are roughly equal in size/weight to 9mm pistols, so the argument that 9mm Luger will replace .380 ACP because guns can be made nearly as small and lightweight if followed to its logical conclusion that .40 S&W will ultimately replace 9mm because firearms chambered in .40 S&W are roughly the same size as 9mm pistols.
I've actually fallen into an odd mindset that essentially goes like this...
For the smallest, lightest, most easy to carry firearm, I reach for the Ruger LCP. If more is needed, then I bypass 9mm Luger altogether and reach for a .40cal.
From 2016 to 2019 I carried .380 ACP exclusively, confident in its ability to get the job done. In 2018 I began contemplating carrying something more powerful because there were increasing instances of wild animals emerging from the woods surrounding the area in which I live. On day my mother called me over, told me a story about how she had seen a hog in the neighbor's field while walking her dogs, and asked me what she should carry to deal with one. I recommended a .357 Magnum revolver and that's what she carries to this day. I wanted a semiautomatic, and ended up with an SW40VE.
Last month I bought a S&W Performance Center M&P40 Shield, which will serve as my carry gun for warmer weather, possibly even all-weather depending on what the future holds in terms of Gun Control.
Generally speaking, .40cal pistols are roughly equal in size/weight to 9mm pistols, so the argument that 9mm Luger will replace .380 ACP because guns can be made nearly as small and lightweight if followed to its logical conclusion that .40 S&W will ultimately replace 9mm because firearms chambered in .40 S&W are roughly the same size as 9mm pistols.
I am slowly changing my mind to .40 also. I was so convinced to get the Ruger LC380, stupid me, I JUST discovered I don't have a Walther PPKS, I have the PPK all along that is smaller, only 19oz. There is absolutely no reason, no advantage to get the Ruger LC380!!!
This has nothing to do with the discussion on 380, 380 will survive. Just being in Kalif, my choice is very limited. I wish I can buy a Glock 42.
Now I have to consider Glock 23( same size as Glock 19 but in .40).
Aguila Blanca
Staff
I was at the range today, not for shooting but to help the owner (whom I have known for 20+ years) with a computer problem. I got that straightened out fairly quickly, so we were chatting and guns and ammo and how nothing is available. He showed me some new guns I have read about but hadn't seen. One was the S&W .380 EZ. I'm not a fan or plastic guns but I could see getting one of those. But it's not a micro pistol or a pocket gun -- it's a "standard" size semi-auto that really wants to be carried in a holster.Urbanrecon said:It will be interesting to compare the sig p365 in .380 to the s&w ez .380. I'm guessing the sig will be more desirable.
berettaprofessor
New member
I had both a Sig 938 and a Sig 238....and sold the 938 because it wasn't nearly as accurate nor easy to shoot as the 238.
Low recoil in the 380? My S&W M&P bodyguard 380 is not very pleasant to shoot. However the S&W M&P Shield 380EZ is pleasant to shoot, but is much less concealable.Carmady mentioned it first, but recoil is a factor for many people in choosing a .380 over a 9 mm. I would rather carry a 9, but old hands make that a problem. So I chose a Glock 42. It's very comfortable to shoot compared to any 9 mm in a similar size. That equates to more practice time and more confidence if I ever have to use it for defense. Yes, it's a compromise, but one I think a lot of people are going to make. That's going to keep .380 alive and well for a long time.
Alan,I am slowly changing my mind to .40 also. I was so convinced to get the Ruger LC380, stupid me, I JUST discovered I don't have a Walther PPKS, I have the PPK all along that is smaller, only 19oz. There is absolutely no reason, no advantage to get the Ruger LC380!!!
This has nothing to do with the discussion on 380, 380 will survive. Just being in Kalif, my choice is very limited. I wish I can buy a Glock 42.
Now I have to consider Glock 23( same size as Glock 19 but in .40).
I have a 40S&W as a conversion kit into my SIG P320 9mm. The 40S&W snaps considerably more than 9mm. My two bits.....
CIWSGUY
Alan,
I have a 40S&W as a conversion kit into my SIG P320 9mm. The 40S&W snaps considerably more than 9mm. My two bits.....
CIWSGUY
Again, it's not for kalif!!! It is so frustrating. The only Sig is 2022 or P239 SAS that is very expensive. if I am willing to pay that, I would look at the HK UPS.