Spats McGee Ponders Another Polymer Puzzle

[Don P]

Eeegattts, if I had to put that much thought into buying a hand gun I might consider giving up shooting. Let the wife choose her gun and toss a coin

 

[marine6680]

I would say keep the glock, you like it and carry it well.


If your wife does not like the pistol... So what... It is your carry gun.

If you want, buy her a pistol to shoot, if she carries or will carry, maybe look into something good for that. First and foremost is get her a pistol she will enjoy shooting, that way she can enjoy trips to the range. Then later, if she wants to carry, find one for that use that she likes.


I like the XD line, I like the trigger and overall feel better than glock. I have never had issues with the grip safety, nor anyone I know who has XD's...

I don't own one currently, but from my remembrance, the trigger is dead and won't move if the grip safety is not engaged.

Can a bad grip make the pistol not fire? Possibly... But my tinkering has shown that the grip safety will not be an issue if you are holding the gun with enough force to hold on to it during recoil. Meaning when you fire the gun, you won't drop or otherwise loose control of the pistol when it fires. Even if the hand placement isn't the best, if you have a grip that includes the grip safety, it will work.

The grip safety design is simple, there are no linkages or other parts to fail. The top of the lever you see and touch is directly under the sear. There are no points of failure other than physical breakage of the pivot pin, but that would cause it to fall out and not be an issue. The grip safety is either engaged or not.

I have also found in several XDs I have handled, that the grip safety does not need to be pushed down even with the frame, there is at least 1/16 of an inch of the grip safety raised above the backstrap when the safety engages and frees the sear.


I believe the pistol is still in use by the Croatian military, if there was a problem, they would demand the pistols be redesigned or modified to prevent issues.

In the end I think it's more theoretical than practical... A case of confirmation bias, in which a very small percentage of failures is used to uphold the theory at the expense of ignoring the majority of evidence that there is no real problem.

 

[Microgunner]

I've put a lot of rounds through my XD-40 V10 and XDm9 and have carried both for years without one single problem with the grip safeties.
Only when an online poster brings up imaginary problems do I even think about the grip safeties.

 

[10mm4ever]

Discounting internet lore and rumor, my experience with the XD has been that it better delivers on Glocks marketing hype, than the 'legendary' Glock.

 

[Venom1956]

Did someone cited warrior talk... Good god.


Why not just keep the g19 get the xd9 and if the xd is davoeible when u compared head to head. Then dump the g19 and then u can use that to get a xd45 later?

 

[Spats McGee]

Thank you all for your input. Interestingly, at this point, 18 votes out of 39 are for "love the one you're with."

Mrs. McGee has fired an XD in 9mm (fullsize, if I remember correctly), as well as the G19. Hates 'em both. No, the G19 is not Mrs. McGee's carry gun. It never has been, and I've never even wanted to choose her concealed carry pistol for her. That said, now that I know that she loathes shooting it, that aspect of it can simply be removed from the table. (Also, my wife does enjoy target shooting, so having guns that she enjoys shooting increases the chances that she'll go to the range with me.)

Eeegattts, if I had to put that much thought into buying a hand gun I might consider giving up shooting. . . . .

If you think I'm bad about handguns, you should see me try to buy a car.

Do I overthink it? By most folks' standards, yeah, but not by mine. I thoroughly detest Buyer's Remorse.

I don't believe that's possible. If he had the G23 he could get a 9mm and .357 SIG barrel, though.

Trading a G19 for a G23 and getting a conversion barrel would be an option, but (believe it or not), I was trying not to open up too many options on myself. A G23 would fit all of my holsters, already, though, and I suppose I could keep some of the mags which I bought for my G19 for 9mm in a G23, right?

. . . . .

Have any of you carried both a G19 and an XDm in the 3.8”? (Not necessarily at the same time, mind you.) How do they compare? How difficult is the extra 5 oz to lug around all day?

Yes, I have. The weight isn't dramatic with a quality holster. Honestly the slightly smaller grip (I'm a bit narrow from front to back) was more of a help to me and it offset the weight. My issues with the XDm Compact stem from a pistol that to me feels unbalanced in the hand. Many people find polymer pistols unbalanced. I can honestly say the XDm Compact is one of the few polymer pistols that felt that way to me. The hunky slide of the XDm with the small grip was definitely noticeable. Now I still shot the pistol very well (better than a Glock) so it's sort of a moot point, just an observation.

Thanks, TR. That's very helpful. Interestingly, when I first got my Glock, I had virtually zero experience with polymer pistols, and it felt unbalanced to me. To my hand, it felt like a self-correcting problem once I put in a loaded mag, though.

Spats,

I've had the XDM in 9mm and 45 in both compact and full size. I found the recoil pulse on the XDM 45 compact to be less than pleasant.

If I may, then, I'll ask a follow-up question. Have you fired an XDs? How does the recoil compare? I actually found the XDs to be fairly soft-shooting (for such an itty-bitty gun in .45). I do not know if any of our local ranges have any of the models under consideration for rent, but if I decide to make the leap, I'll definitely be renting before buying if I can.

The XDM 9 compact is definitely a pretty nice gun. It definitely needs a better trigger in my opinion. So add another $140 to the top of your cost.

Good to know, though I don't have any problems with the Glock trigger.

I still have the XDM 9 fullsize and while I like it, the trigger is meh... even with the Springer Precision kit installed. I'm pretty much only keeping it as a point of reference. I've owned it a few times and sold... then forget why I sold.

If you're up for any other suggestions, I would push you to the M&P 9 with Apex DCAEK & AEK polymer trigger. You'll be all set with that for about the same price as the XDM out the door - before any trigger upgrades.

Also good to know. The M&P series was on my list when I first started this adventure in to polymer pistols. I'm really, really trying not to add too many more possibilities to The List, because of the aforementioned overthinking, but maybe I do need to go back and handle one of those . . . . . . . just once . . . just to be sure.

My advice:

The triggers/ergonomics are just different enough that I'd suggest staying with one brand. Pick one, and buy multiple guns of the same brand and you will be much happier going from one to the other.

I sort of think of the Glocks as a shooting system rather than individual guns. I have G-17, 19, 26. I keep the mag made for the gun in it when carrying, but only use G-17 mags as spares. I also have G20 and G21. The grips are a little bigger, but cheap practice with one of the 9mm's is with the same trigger and feel.

That matches my theory. One thought that I was toying with was to (somehow scrounge enough money to) buy an XDm in 9 for practice and an XDm in .45 for carry. Unfortunately, I haven't really liked any of the .45 Glocks that I've held, except for the G21 . . . As much as I like the thought of having 13 rounds of .45 on hand, that's a big mamu gun to conceal.

Why not just keep the g19 get the xd9 and if the xd is davoeible when u compared head to head. Then dump the g19 and then u can use that to get a xd45 later?

While I'm not sure what "davoeible" means, I'm guessing you mean "get the XD9 and see if it's better than the G19, and if it is, dump the G19 and get the XD45?"

 

[Uncle Malice]

If I may, then, I'll ask a follow-up question. Have you fired an XDs?

I have not, sorry. I have shot the M&P Shield 9 and really enjoyed it.

Good to know, though I don't have any problems with the Glock trigger.

I don't either, really. My biggest complaint with the XD/XDM trigger is that there is no discernible break. It's nice and smooth, but it just rolls right through the break point. I just don't care for that characteristic.

Also good to know. The M&P series was on my list when I first started this adventure in to polymer pistols. I'm really, really trying not to add too many more possibilities to The List, because of the aforementioned overthinking, but maybe I do need to go back and handle one of those . . . . . . . just once . . . just to be sure.

Attaboy. And, for what it's worth, the new M&P's have very good trigger resets. My newest is my M&P 9 and it has a nice forceful, clicky reset. Not quite as forceful as the Glock, but probably about on par with HK - only not nearly as long. Its definitely noticeable and a huge improvement over the old design. The way they have achieved this is by modifying the slide lock lever to apply a bit of pressure to the trigger bar, so when it clears the sear cam and snaps back into place, it does so with authority. It seems to me that this may actually be a point of improved reliability, although I never heard of an issue with the trigger not resetting on the M&P in the first place. Just a potential point to note.

 

[marine6680]

If you just want another pistol... Get one.

Just don't sell the one you have now, it's always nice to have options and variety at the range.

I know I will end up with an XD again... And a few glocks, now that I found out I shoot them well, and the gen 4 has fixed a good deal of my issue with the feel of the pistol. The fiancé feels the same, and wants a glock for carry... I will also end up with a PPQ, as the trigger is great on that pistol.

I already have an M&P, but I am not a fan of the trigger pull, even after I smoothed it out, the trigger feels a little mushy at the break. Got a sig 320 too, it's a nice pistol.

I just like having different pistols around, even if they are "similar".

I like the all metal pistols too... I have a tough choice between the CZ75 or the sig 226 as my favorite pistols in my safe.


I'm not big on selling guns... Unless I just don't like them or want them, and even then I would hesitate. I won't sell a gun I like for another gun... I will miss the one I sell even if I like the new one better.

 

[Uncle Malice]

the trigger feels a little mushy at the break

Get the Apex sear.

 

[marine6680]

Get the Apex sear.

Just the sear?

I was looking at the FSS kit but wasn't sure.


To me, it feels like the trigger flexes to much, so I was looking at replacing the trigger too. I can deal with the pretravel, but wouldn't mind reducing it. Its the mushy feel that gets me, I just can't seem to get the pull down.

 

[RodTheWrench]

Spats - get a G23 and separate barrels, then sell the G19 (if you must). Here's why:

.40 cal Glocks are being dumped for cheap right now. Whether it's because police departments are going back to the 9 or people don't like the 40 as much anymore, it doesn't matter. You can buy a model 22 or 23(sometimes 27) for about 400 bucks these days - usually Gen 3s but I've seen Gen 4s for near that too.

THEN, get a LoneWolf barrel in 357Sig, and one in 9mm. About 100 bucks each, maybe 120.

If you choose to shoot 40 in your G23, that's fine. I have some 40 ammo for my G22, but I haven't shot that caliber out of it for about 2 years. What has worked out best for me is carrying it in 357Sig using the 40 mags, then swapping out for the 9mm barrel for plinking. Easy peasy! I get massive SD power PLUS the pleasure and relative softness of a fun range round. Same frame, same trigger, 2 distinct calibers.

I honestly have no idea why more people don't do it.

Now, I'll probably get beat up for this, but I use the 40 mags for 9mm as well when I'm at the range. You just have to be prepared for the last round to hang up due to the big .40 follower kicking it off to one side. I'll get some 9mm mags soon enough, but you already have plenty even if you include 2 or 3 with the sale of your G19.

Do that. Makes sense!

 

[Pond James Pond]

I thoroughly detest Buyer's Remorse.

I've never even seen an XDm other than on my screen so I can't help with their relative virtues, but your comment above makes the choice clear.

If you were ambivalent about the G19, I'd say sell. But you're not. You may not "LOVE" it, but you are certainly pleased with it and if you sold it, the XDm or which ever replacement you chose would have to be better and by some order of magnitude for you not to regret selling the Glock.

SO, I will offer two options on here, if not the poll.
Either keep what you have and enjoy it, or keep it and buy one of the XDm too, funds allowing. Once you've tried both, if you find your affections are fading, ditch the one that no longer captures you attention.

BTW, How are you with Seller's Remorse?

 

[Venom1956]

While I'm not sure what "davoeible" means, I'm guessing you mean "get the XD9 and see if it's better than the G19, and if it is, dump the G19 and get the XD45?"

BAHAHAHAA typing on a bumpy highway whilst my battery was dying I didnt even notice! yes you got the gist of the comment.

Its hard imo for someone to accurately compare two different guns over a large period of time. You might remember it better or worse then it actually was. But back to back over and over makes it much easier. If you fall in love with the xd you can drop the G19 easily and either recoup your investment for the XD9 or put it forward to a XD45 or XDs9/45?

 

[Spats McGee]

I thoroughly detest Buyer's Remorse.

I've never even seen an XDm other than on my screen so I can't help with their relative virtues, but your comment above makes the choice clear.

If you were ambivalent about the G19, I'd say sell. But you're not. You may not "LOVE" it, but you are certainly pleased with it and if you sold it, the XDm or which ever replacement you chose would have to be better and by some order of magnitude for you not to regret selling the Glock.

SO, I will offer two options on here, if not the poll.
Either keep what you have and enjoy it, or keep it and buy one of the XDm too, funds allowing. Once you've tried both, if you find your affections are fading, ditch the one that no longer captures you attention.

BTW, How are you with Seller's Remorse?

This makes lots of sense.

Honestly, I'm probably pretty awful about Seller's Remorse, too. The kicker is that I don't really know. Since I research the living snot out of every important purchase, I rarely have to sell off anything important.

@ RodThe Wrench -- While the G23/conversion barrel makes some sense, I don't have much interest in either .40 or .357 Sig. I've never shot a .357 Sig, nor researched performance or cost, to be honest. However, I do try to limit the number of calibers that I shoot, for a variety of reasons.

If you just want another pistol... Get one.

Just don't sell the one you have now, it's always nice to have options and variety at the range. . . . .

I'm not big on selling guns...

I'm not, either, and that's one of my problems here. I have a gun. I have a gun that works. I have a gun that works and she meets all of my criteria for an "acceptable carry pistol." So I am reluctant to sell her.

 

[RodTheWrench]

"One thought that I was toying with was to (somehow scrounge enough money to) buy an XDm in 9 for practice and an XDm in .45 for carry. Unfortunately, I haven't really liked any of the .45 Glocks that I've held, except for the G21 . . . As much as I like the thought of having 13 rounds of .45 on hand, that's a big mamu gun to conceal."

Glock 23/Conversion barrel - it's THE SAME GUN for both calibers. I say shoot 357Sig out of it only enough for you to be comfortable with, then use it the other 90% of the time as a 9mm, just like you have now. I may be bold in saying, but it appears that funds may be tight for you, this is absolutely the best bang for your buck out there.

Again, you don't have to buy a ton of 357Sig OR shoot a ton of that caliber if you go that route.

 

[lee n. field]

A case of confirmation bias, in which a very small percentage of failures is used to uphold the theory at the expense of ignoring the majority of evidence that there is no real problem.

Interesting observation.

 

[marine6680]

People tend to be horrible at statistics/probability, and can see small numbers of problems as evidence of a larger issue, despite overwhelming examples of successes.

 

[Spats McGee]

One thought that I was toying with was to (somehow scrounge enough money to) buy an XDm in 9 for practice and an XDm in .45 for carry. Unfortunately, I haven't really liked any of the .45 Glocks that I've held, except for the G21 . . . As much as I like the thought of having 13 rounds of .45 on hand, that's a big mamu gun to conceal.

Glock 23/Conversion barrel - it's THE SAME GUN for both calibers. I say shoot 357Sig out of it only enough for you to be comfortable with, then use it the other 90% of the time as a 9mm, just like you have now. I may be bold in saying, but it appears that funds may be tight for you, this is absolutely the best bang for your buck out there.

I get that. Honest, I do. However:

@ RodThe Wrench -- While the G23/conversion barrel makes some sense, I don't have much interest in either .40 or .357 Sig. I've never shot a .357 Sig, nor researched performance or cost, to be honest. However, I do try to limit the number of calibers that I shoot, for a variety of reasons.

Getting the G23 and conversion barrels adds two extra calibers that I'll have to feed, at least once, and it's adding two extra calibers in which I have little or no interest.

Yes, funds are tight, but I'm also just a little compulsive in my research.

 

[lee n. field]

People tend to be horrible at statistics/probability, and can see small numbers of problems as evidence of a larger issue, despite overwhelming examples of successes.

So, it's maybe a bad inference to say that (some) Glock fans seem especially prone to the gun disparagement behavior?

 

[RodTheWrench]

Throw away the 40 barrel then. Now you've got only 2 calibers to worry about.