Southern States, keep your flag flying..

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nogod -

My reference to states rights primarily had to do with the original issue of the war. And that its being put forth now
as strictly a racist issue.

Yes if a state votes to take em down then that is there right, are you so naive to think that there isn't political and economical pressure from outside the given state, this is also what I'm referring to, the fact that someone can't burp in Idaho (no offense to Idaho) and 20 min
later its on the local news in Maine like it some national
emergency. Our social mentality has changed to one of a
one world gov't where everybody has to have their nose in everyone else's business.

There I even think I misspelled a couple of words for ya,
just to keep it low brow.
 
I'm so d*mn tired of hearing the word "hate" associated to the Confederate flag (battle or otherwise) that I am ready to gag.

The word "hate" is being abused by the Left as a shortcut to the dialectic gutter for any point of view that goes against their regimented view of the world. Ditto for "racism".

Anyone who still believes that the War Between the States was fought by the noble, enlightened North to eradicate the "hate" from the illiterate, racist South should start examining facts with a little more scrutiny than easily-inflamed hysteria.

Likewise, anyone who judges the Confederate flag only in light of its alleged use by post-facto groups of dubious ideological inclination needs to give the benefit of the doubt to the greatest majority of those who still believe in the flag as a symbol of State Rights.

And ultimately, people need to mind their own d*mn business. We are becoming such a nation of time-wasting crybabies that perhaps we need a true, painful cataclysm to re-shuffle the priorities of this land, whose trouble seems to be having too much time on our hands.
 
I would like someone to answer the question of why this flag should fly if it was designed as a signal of opposition to civil rights for African Americans?

If that isn't the history of this flag - please correct me.

As far as Southerners refusing to admit that slavery was the key - that is your problem. If you fought for freedom, where was it for African Americans before the war and after it?
You ignore that.

There weren't any white slaves, were there?

The rhetoric of fighting for freedom is as believable as Soviet propaganda was about the glories of Communism.
 
Enoch, this last post betrays your ignorance (in good faith, I'm sure, and I don't mean it sarcastically).

1. I think it is pretty much established that the Confederacy (and the flag in consequence) was not born as "opposition to civil rights for African Americans". The very concept of "civil rights" is (unfortunately) a recent, post-1950s thing. And, by the way, Lincoln himself viewed the negroes as "inferior". Should your interest be more than emotionally driven, check for yourself.

2. It is likewise established that many more blacks fought for the Confederacy than they did for the Federals. So, unless you think that blacks were a bunch of self-defeating masochists who fought a war to remain enslaved, you must admit that there is a small crack in your over-simplistic theory.

3. It's actually your "problem" (i.e. burden of proof) to establish that Southerners should "admit that slavery was the key". I could think that "you are an aardvaark" and tell you that it is "your problem" to refute that - nice logical exercise that would be!
 
Enoch,

By your own standards then, the American Revolution was not really a struggle for freedom, because some of the people fighting against the English were slave owners. Agreed?

Or do I have it all wrong?

You're making this way too personal.

Later,
Chris
 
Ummm, also...

There were a variety of white "slaves" over the decades in North America. And yellow ones too. Irish, Chinese, etc. They were often called indentured but slavery is slavery.
 
I was reading one account of Mosby's Rangers. They had a sergeant who defected from a NY Regiment. Why? He was upset that the war was now for "freeing the slaves" instead of "preserving the Union." He not only help guide a raid into his former encampment, but eventually was commissioned as a Lt. He did not survive the war.

I've read other accounts of Afro-Americans being mistreated by Yankee soldiers. Gen. Hunter, under instructions from Gen. Butler ("Beast Butler" as the ladies of New Orleans called him), forcibly marched off a lot of slaves right before planting season and drilled them with intent of making them soldiers. They were eventually discharged, unpaid right after harvest season. Those poor guys starved during the winter since they had no money for their time in Union service (and they were away during planting & harvesting).
 
if it was designed as a signal of opposition to civil rights for African Americans? ------

IF!!
Theirs a huge if their.

Way more blacks voted for Gore than Bush.
The vast majority of NRA members are white
(as if it matters) so are we racist?
The vast majority have been told that Gore
will make things better for the black man
again are we racist the did vote for him.
Are we opposing
civil rights for african-americans?
And if its all for gunownership hey? why
cant we make that the next symbol for racism?


Jeb Bush has been labeled as a racist for
opposing the glorious Affirmative action.
Would you agree.
Frankly Ive never seen anything more racist than
affirmative action.
--Oh your black thats ok we know your stupid you
dont have to pass the same tests as the intelligent
white man we'll hire you or school you for your
color!--
Just an example of what IS actually going on around
the country.
What might be a wonderful solution to local problems
when 30 years from now our local police forces fire
departments teachers you name it cant do didlye because
they didnt have to pass the most basic requirements to
be hired.
Well looky now aint this sweet the Federal government
has offered to step in and 'correct' things for us.
How far we have come from the teachings of the man that said
'judge a man by the content of his character not the color
of his skin'.
As every state and rep pushed for more programs to make things nicer and easier for the besieiged minorities who
do you think gets portions of money from these programs
could it be the federal goverment?
I think theirs a big difference between equal opprotunity
and giving something away to someone who has not earned it
or worked for it because of the amount or even lack their
of pigment in their skin.
If a car is taken and used on the road its probaly meant for driving.
If a flag is taken into and used in battle it was probaly
meant for....
Ive met a NAZI a white power lover and he made it very clear to me that they dont hide their hate behind
the confederate flag the 'proudly' display it with the
NAZI swastika.
The NAZI intelligence taught the people to hate the jew
and despise them as a disease and they did that and the jews
belevied the same intelligence when they promised safety
and protection they gave up their protection for a promise.
Today the liberal mis-intelligence tells you what to say and you say it they tell you not to think but what to think
and you think it without question.
Well done my good little NA..

http://www.scv.org
 
Enoch,

The bill that proposed my state's current flag in '56 was introduced by Senator Willis Hardin and Senator Jeff Davis, and was designed by former Chief Judge of the GA Court of Appeals John Bell. Some claim that the change was a reaction to the school desegration decision made by the US Supreme Court. If you want the REAL reason why the flag was changed, go to the source of the change:

1. Judge Bell, 1988 - the purpose of the change was "to honor our ancestors who fought and died and who have been so much maligned."

2. Judge Bell, 1988 - concerning the claim that the flag was designed as an act of defiance against integration - "Absolutely nothing could be further from the truth...every bit of it is untrue. Anybody who says anything to the contrary is wrong or perpetuating a willful lie"

What has Georgians most disturbed recently is not that the flag may be changed, but that a few politicians have ramrodded a vote through our legislation and deliberately excluded our state citizens from letting their voices be heard. Last time anyone checked, the majority of citizens in my state did not favor a change in our current flag... where's all those "will of the people" now? .....Dan in GA
 
Let's put to rest the white servant issue. Blacks were made slaves to do the jobs that the white servants wouldn't do or weren't seen fit as jobs for whites.

Give it up - no matter what your rationalization (maybe you even believe it) you are perpetuating a symbol of racism.

That the old Judge says it isn't true now, doesn't mean that his rationalization is what happened.

Just grow up. You lost the war, the symbology is racism when you get to the core issue.

The post on affirmative action by Ruger confirms it. What venom!
 
EnochGale, if you want to start a fight, come here and say that. "You lost the war" I didn't fight in it, and YOU didn't win it. I say your anti-Southern sentiment is as elitist as the worst racism I've seen.

Bite me.
 
To quote Enoch
"Just grow up. You lost the war, the symbology is racism when you get to the core issue."

to quote John C. Calhoun.
[/i]"I consider the Tariff, but as the occasion, rather than the real cause of the present unhappy state of things.

The truth can no longer be disguised, that the peculiar domestick institutions of the Southern States, and the consequent direction which that and her soil and climate have given to her industry, has placed them in regard to taxation and appropriation in opposite relation to the majority of the Union; against the danger of which, if there be no protective power in the reserved rights of the states, they must in the end be forced to rebel, or submit to have... their domestick institutions exhausted by Colonization and other schemes, and themselves & children reduced to wretchedness.

Thus situatied, the denial of the right of the state to interfere constitutionally in the last resort, more alarms the thinking than all other causes."[/i]
http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/2/0,5716,18952+1,00.html

Note that he died before war of northern agression.. WE (as a nation) lost the war!

....George
 
This started out as a "States vs. Federal Government" discussion, which is okay, but has devolved into a discussion over slavery, re-hashing of the Civil War and general mud-slinging.

Said discussion should be taken to other Forums devoted to those subjects, or to e-mail.

Lights out.

LawDog
 
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