Sorry Ms. Raich, the drug war is more important than your life
- Thread starter Redworm
- Start date
Rangefinder
New member
Stepping slightly into off-topic land... Here's suggestion/challenge for anyone interested: Do some research. Find some solid, bonified, scientific evidence and supported conclusions about the effects of MJ--both positive and negative (excluding all the propoganda and falsities proposed by both sides). Then do some research into the various organizations (be it governmental AND private) that benefit by keeping MJ illegal and would otherwise suffer monetarily with its legalization.
My own conclusions indicate pretty strong that the main reason it has remained illegal is because it's worth more to way too many people that way. Legalizing it takes all the profit out of it for too many people--and I'm not referring to current dealers or growers, though it would destroy their ability to make much profit from it as well.
My own conclusions indicate pretty strong that the main reason it has remained illegal is because it's worth more to way too many people that way. Legalizing it takes all the profit out of it for too many people--and I'm not referring to current dealers or growers, though it would destroy their ability to make much profit from it as well.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
Where did you get your medical degree?
I assume you have one to make such a definitive medical judgment.
My father-n-law and brother-n-law are both MD's and they both attest to the benefits of medical marijuana. In fact I have never know a single non-political affiliated doctor who denies its benefits.
And for your information, most every test conducted on cancer patients and chronic pain sufferers showed better results with less damage to the user with marijuana than with other drugs. Marijuana is very effective as a pain reliever and appetite stimulant with negligible negative effects on the user.
Then when you factor in that marijuana can do it for a much smaller cost.
That is where the real problem comes in to play. It is very hard for big business to make money off of a drug people can grow safely in their own homes.
When I was your age I might have agreed with you but after seeing what I have seen down through the years I am gonna go with WildshootemAlaska on this subject.
In fact I will go one farther. It would be a on site death penalty at the border no matter the drug.
POW bury em!
End of story, who wants to be next?
Wildalaska
Moderator
Oh I know. But just like a conservative is a liberal who got mugged, old WA is a drug libertarian who just lost someone from an OD...
I'll be back to normal soon.
WildshootemallAlaska
invention45,
Yeah, I'm just messin' with ya
It'd be a hoot. We'd all load up our arsenals into the back of our Dodge Omnis, pop in a Phish CD and head for DC at 5mph with the occasional delay while waiting for the stop sign to turn green. Once we get there we'll realize that we forgot to bring the ammo and head over to Taco Bell.
Yeah, I'm just messin' with ya
I'm not a MD nor do I need to be. There isn't anything in pot that will sustain anyone's life. The most it does is numb one's pain, and there are plenty of available drugs that do this. I never said pot had no use, what I said was that there are other legal available drugs that medically will accomplish the same task.
Pot is illegal. A majority of Americans want it that way. Because the little old lady from Pasadena has cancer doesn't mean we bend the law. If you don't like it, change it.
All of this bullcrap about oh its just pot, oh it doesn't hurt anyone, oh it doesn't matter what the law says is phooey. This type of argument is the same type of tactic that antis use when they want to read out the 2nd amendment. They take some sympathetic character, throw them in the spotlight and then say "see, look at how bad guns are." This is no different.
Unless you can convince enough Americans to change the law via their representatives, then you smoke dope at your own risk. I don't care whether its for cancer or you're celebrating 4/20. It makes no difference.
AK, AZ, CA, CO, HI, ME, NV, OR, RI, VT and WA have already. Its a long and painful process, of course. And Federal is a different beast requiring a different tactic (when is the last time there was a national referendum or a politician doing something because it is practical?)
I'm not sure that second sentence is completely accurate. Opinion Polls say otherwise. (Yes, that was the best source I could find... Google is failing to find any better results. Ignore it if you want.)
I think the statements "That's the law" and "people want it that way" are not necessarily causal.
Wildalaska
Moderator
In AK "legal" pot is by judicial fiat.
WildneverheardoffolksgoingcrazyonitAlaska
WildneverheardoffolksgoingcrazyonitAlaska
Playboypenguin
Moderator
Glad to hear you admit to not being trained in the medical profession because that statement reveals a complete misunderstanding of how medicine works.
Medicine does not directly extend life. There is no magical pill you can take that will add hours or days to your life.
What medicine does is relieve pains and illnesses that cause your life to be shortened. In some cases it destroys the disease or parasite but it does not lengthen your life. What it does is allow your body to handle the stress of illness better and either heal itself (repairing the damage done by the now removed disease or condition) or at least hold out for longer under stress.
One, you are completely wrong that all marijuana does is relieve pain. It is also a powerful appetite stimulant. Not eating is one of the premier factors in shortening of life when it comes to cancer and chronic pain sufferers. My partner is a hospice nurse and sees this every day. It also improves mood as well as removing pain and when facing a serious illness mental health and a positive outlook are very relevant to longevity.
And two, marijuana often performs better than other drugs in tests. It works better than combinations of pain killers and mood stabilizers. It helps promote appetite better than regular narcotics. Then you add the fact that it does it for WAY LESS MONEY. A lot of seriously ill people are living on very fixed incomes.
Wrong again, most polls I have seen favor medical marijuana 2 -1 and sometimes up to 3-1.
Keep in mind that it is also illegal for you to possess morphine unless it was prescribed by a doctor. Why should marijuana be different?
And yet this is all still strikingly irrelevant. The fact remains that there are many LEGAL drugs that will do the same things medically that pot does. Whether pot is better, more efficient, or induces a craving for cheetos doesn't matter. What does matter is that 1) pot is illegal, and 2) there are medical alternatives to using it.
This isnt a zero sum game. Its not as if either she has the pot or nothing. You guys are trying to paint it like this is the case, which is simply not true.
If you want to use pot for medicine, change the law and you won't hear a peep out of me. Till then don't smoke dope.
Rangefinder
New member
Stage>> we're all aware of the fact it's currently illegal. The bigger issue and reason for serious question is WHY? Do a little reaching into that side of things and you might see some inconsistencies in the logic behind it all.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
I am not sure how you are missing this but...NO, THEY DO NOT DO THE SAME THING. Maybe bold type will help you see my point.
Marijuana has proven to be more effective, less harmful, and cost less.
Therefore, other drugs are often less effective, more harmful if taken long term, and cost a whole lot more.
How is that doing the same thing?????????????
DonR101395
New member
WA,
You're a valley in Western Germany??
Figured it was a typo, but had to say it.
michibilly
New member
Stage let me fire it at you like this. How many unjust gun laws are out there. Even though they are wrong why is it almost impossible to change them? Think about cali, chicago and new york. Also you're not answering the question. What if your broke and cant afford the wonder assortment of drugs YOU KNOW for a fact are out there?
Rangefinder
New member
So I'm guessing that MJ must be equal to the AMC gremlin--because I sure couldn't afford a ferrari any sooner than I could most of the synthetic LEGAL drugs you seem to agree so much with. Neither can a whole lot of people who need them--which is why so many people end up loosing their entire life's posessions and still end up filing bankruptcy because of medical bills... So where exactly is your side of this discussion suppose to be going?
Rangefinder
New member
Let me put this in a bit more personal context...
About 10 years ago, I had to watch my father-in-law die a very slow, very painful death from cancer. It took almost a year and a half from the time he was diagnosed till he finally passed. Upon being diagnosed, his medical insurance canceled him because he had been diagnosed with Hodgson's disease, was a treatment test subject, and beat it way back in 1976. Of course that little fact didn't stop them from accepting his payments for his medical coverage all those years in between--just their decision to pay up when their end of the deal came to bear. So he was left to fend for himself so-to-speak with any and all medical bills, which were over 200K within the first six months. There was no way to pay those kind of bills, so he basically said enough was enough. A year's worth of pain with no way to afford medication to try to ease it is a lot to ask of someone. Within the last few months he asked if I knew of any "alternate" ways to help. Well, I probably don't need to go into detail what that refers to--and thanks to a couple old high school friends, my Father-in-law could get a couple hours of restful sleep at night, and get a little enjoyment out of his last few months to live. My mother-in-law still lost nearly everything that was left with the bankruptcy after he died--a result of the costs from the first six months he tried to fight it.
Oh, I should probably mention--he was a retired deputy sheriff, city judge, stand-in JP, and one of the most outstanding individuals I've ever known.
About 10 years ago, I had to watch my father-in-law die a very slow, very painful death from cancer. It took almost a year and a half from the time he was diagnosed till he finally passed. Upon being diagnosed, his medical insurance canceled him because he had been diagnosed with Hodgson's disease, was a treatment test subject, and beat it way back in 1976. Of course that little fact didn't stop them from accepting his payments for his medical coverage all those years in between--just their decision to pay up when their end of the deal came to bear. So he was left to fend for himself so-to-speak with any and all medical bills, which were over 200K within the first six months. There was no way to pay those kind of bills, so he basically said enough was enough. A year's worth of pain with no way to afford medication to try to ease it is a lot to ask of someone. Within the last few months he asked if I knew of any "alternate" ways to help. Well, I probably don't need to go into detail what that refers to--and thanks to a couple old high school friends, my Father-in-law could get a couple hours of restful sleep at night, and get a little enjoyment out of his last few months to live. My mother-in-law still lost nearly everything that was left with the bankruptcy after he died--a result of the costs from the first six months he tried to fight it.
Oh, I should probably mention--he was a retired deputy sheriff, city judge, stand-in JP, and one of the most outstanding individuals I've ever known.
WeedWacker
New member
Quote: Me
I say they figure out WHAT in the marijuana is the medicine and just extract it. Pharmaceutical companies can buy a permit to produce it and sell it or produce for study and/or it can be synthesized in a lab.
If it is a plant the plant is easily available even though it is illegal. In pill form it is harder to get. Besides, if the chemicals are synthesized they can be used in other compounds for other pharmaceuticals. And furthermore, the pill is easier to prescribe and prevent misuse if docs are honest. Also a pill lasts longer than leaves making shelf life a nonissue along with storage.
Edit: Price is cheaper with the plant but a lot of the people who get a prescription often use medicaid to get it (meaning my tax money) so it's not going to be any different to them if the Rx companies make money off of them. After all it is a capitalistic country.
I say they figure out WHAT in the marijuana is the medicine and just extract it. Pharmaceutical companies can buy a permit to produce it and sell it or produce for study and/or it can be synthesized in a lab.
If it is a plant the plant is easily available even though it is illegal. In pill form it is harder to get. Besides, if the chemicals are synthesized they can be used in other compounds for other pharmaceuticals. And furthermore, the pill is easier to prescribe and prevent misuse if docs are honest. Also a pill lasts longer than leaves making shelf life a nonissue along with storage.
Edit: Price is cheaper with the plant but a lot of the people who get a prescription often use medicaid to get it (meaning my tax money) so it's not going to be any different to them if the Rx companies make money off of them. After all it is a capitalistic country.