Some New Thoughts About "Profiling"

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pickpocket,

There's situational awareness and then there's paranoia

Even "dialed back a tiny bit", I still don't think it's healthy to "THINK like everyone you meet wants to kill you".
Nor is it healthy to "Have a plan to kill everyone you meet".

You might want to reconsider that advice....because there are probably a few that visit here who might actually take it to heart.
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Pickpocket, I had no problem the way you said it believe me. I just understand how some people think, especially antigunners. They might interpret it as a psycho with a gun waiting to kill.
 
Well, that went downhill and off topic quick.

A profile of a person by definition includes more than one attribute. If the only "profile" you can see is race, you are on the wrong path.

Good SA includes being aware of your possible responses to an attack by any person around you. This is particularly true for an LEO or anyone who carries a firearm openly. One of the responses must be deadly force in response to a deadly attack. This may be considered paranoia, but it is taught at every LE school I have heard of, and it saves lifes.

Things can get to seeming very routine while on the job, and relaxing can get you or someone else killed. I imagine this would apply, to a lessor extent, to anyone who carries openly.
 
Lets understand that The "GANGSTA GANG BANGER" wants you to feel fear. Wants you to be intimidated. You see, these gang bangers confuse fear with respect. They literally live in a dog pack mentality, strongest is Alpha Male which is maintained by violence or fear of violence.
As far as race is concerned, its irrelevant. Most people instinctively know when someone is up to no good. That’s not a race factor.
 
threegun said:
Pickpocket, I had no problem the way you said it believe me. I just understand how some people think, especially antigunners. They might interpret it as a psycho with a gun waiting to kill.
Click to expand...

Point well taken, and duly noted.
 
Skyguy,

There's situational awareness and then there's paranoia
Click to expand...

Paranoia is a mental disorder characterized by delusions of persecution. Pickpocket is just trying to tell you to be ready to defend yourself against anyone and everyone as even someone that looks okay can be trouble. He explained to all of us that his mindset came from the military (free of political correctness and sugar coatings). You are stuck on the harshness of the words instead of understanding the point. Here is PP's point as I gather it. Trouble can come from anyone at anytime be ready to protect yourself........DON'T BE CAUGHT OFF GUARD. Very simple to translate.

Sugar coating provided by threegun at no extra charge LOL.
 
Very simple to translate.
Click to expand...
Spin it any way you like, guy....still seems like very bad advice, especially for some that visit here who might actually take it to heart.

Even "dialed back a tiny bit", I don't think it's healthy to "THINK like everyone you meet wants to kill you".

Nor is it healthy to "Have a plan to kill everyone you meet".
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Get over it, man. If you didn't understand it, then the post wasn't for you to begin with.
Maybe I should consider changing my signature as well - lest I be responsible for someone repeating it out loud.

If you take it to heart and take it literally, then you were bound to run into that sooner or later and I doubt that my post was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Either way - Let's move on. The post has been edited and the ignorant and irresponsible have been duly protected from themselves.
 
Capt. Mike, there is nothing immoral, illegal, or unethical about going with your feelings about someone, particularly when being wrong could mean your life.

You were absolutely right in deciding to err on the side of safety. In the worst case, you might have just given offense (if they even were aware that you left because of them) -- and in that case, tough crap, because hey, if you don't want to be judged as though you are a potential danger to me, don't act and present yourself as mimicking exactly that kind of person. In the best case, you might have removed yourself and your son from a robbery scene in which bullets may have flown.

We can't afford to dance this b.s. dance about how "it's wrong to judge people based on their appearance." That's utter crap. There is no utility to treating everyone as though they are all undressed plastic mannequins going about their day, no different-looking, different-appearing, different-acting from anyone else. There ARE differences, and an adept, astute observer can often tell the difference between someone who poses an elevated threat level from someone who does not. Will I act less defensively around a 48-year-old guy in a business suit who is holding his 5-year-old daughter's hand at a restaurant than I would around three black guys in baggy clothes, with gold teeth, one ankle of their sweats high and one low, lolling around on all the seats, not staying in one place or appearing to have any business there, and talking loudly and brashly with each other, possibly making rude comments about other patrons? You bet your @$$. Who is going to say I am wrong for doing it? I should just pretend that the appearances and behaviors are equal to neutral? No. They have a justified influence on how I interpret the level of threat.

-azurefly
 
Will I act less defensively around a 48-year-old guy in a business suit who is holding his 5-year-old daughter's hand at a restaurant than I would around three black guys in baggy clothes, with gold teeth, one ankle of their sweats high and one low, lolling around on all the seats, not staying in one place or appearing to have any business there, and talking loudly and brashly with each other, possibly making rude comments about other patrons? You bet your @$$.
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I agree 100% but those three black guys could be three white guys! I've seen white gang bangers who were just as nasty and dangerous as any blacks or Hispanics. I'm guilty of racial profiling just as many others are. It's human nature especially when you read about 9 out of 10 shooting being done by blacks. There was four murders in Buffalo, NY last week, one restaurant owner shot in cold blood after a robbery, one store clerk shot for no apparent reason after a robbery, one college student killed in cold blood and finally a Nun raped and murdered, all by black men.

The Saudis and other Middle Eastern counties were complaining about profiling after 9/11 but the hijackers were all from the Middle East so how can we as a country not suspect anyone from that part of the world especially in that age group. That's racial profiling at it's finest and it's done at every airport in the country.

These gang bangers wanna walk the walk and talk the talk, then they better be ready to accept the consequences.
 
Many people think of gangs as racially based. Actually, some of the most dangerous are area or "hood" based.
 
I run everyone.

The other day I went to a church at about noon for a person who locked herself out of her vehicle.

I showed up and met a white female, mid 20's, clean, dressed very conservative (blouse and dress down to her shoes). I talked to her for a few minutes, and she told me that she was a 2nd grade school teacher, and on sundays she teaches sunday school. Very articulate and well spoken person. I ran her and she had warrants for assault, burglary, possession of a c/s and distribution of a c/s. :eek:

Relying solely on race to find bgs is a horrible way of doing policing.
 
I don't think we're trying to say what's "good" policing and what's not.
That said, there are certainly going to be exceptions to the rule - your young lady was arguably one of those exceptions.

I made a point earlier in the thread that certain people work at projecting a certain "vibe" - and we would be idiots to ignore those signals. To me, that's what this whole thread is really about.
 
Very interesting topic. I find it more interesting to observe people's opinions from an international outsiders point of view. Fortunately in Australia, we do not live in constant fear of being shot by any group or minority. Yes we have shootings, but nothing that provokes our police to do vehicle road stops at gun point. The removal of a firearm from a holster over here is a lot of paper work and requires an explanation for your actions. Police have to have justification to draw their firearm... armed security officers like myself have to be pretty much shot before we are justified in drawing our firearms. Sad fact.
I profile people everyday in my job. My city is small enough that you get to know the regulars and their movements. Most people in Australia are intimdated by the open carriage of firearms by security officers. Its not a very common sight to most people and your actions have to be performed very carefully. In Australia, if I was to be seen by a person with my hand resting on my firearm, and that person did not feel comfortable with what they saw... I could be charged with assault and a breach of our Weapons Act. The reason - we are not to go armed in a public place and cause fear. It sounds strange I know because that action was not intentional to cause fear, but the concept that someone didn't like it caused a response.

When I look at people to profile them, I look for things that might be a threat to me. Example - something concealed within their hands, or hands in their pockets or watching them watching my movements. I maintain that I establish eye contact with every person in the room. It might be only a split second. Its all to do with letting people know that I've seen them.
I don't become complacent with performing my job. The threat is always there, but I can't live everyday thinking that if someone looks at me differently, that person is going to attack me. I get heaps of people that look at me differently and draw my attention to them. I assess the situation by observing their movements and eliminate the possibilities of a threat occuring.
Its ok to be unsure of something. The best advice if you are encountered by a this:
Create distance.
Know your escape route.
Remember the offender.
Find your options.
Protect yourself.

You can never fire and forget.

Chris Cullen
 
But what do you know is a rule? I don't know many dangerous criminals, do you? How are you supposed to see what the "typical" felon looks like? Unless you're an experienced LEO, or otherwise see a lot of these criminals on a regular basis, your gut feeling is just what makes you uncomfortable-usually just what you don't know.
 
So, like, I'm sitting in a restraunt and there's a bunch of loud, obnoxious gangsta-types over there, and there's a bunch of loud, obnoxious preppie-types over there. Guess which ones I'm going to watch more closely? Either group may be capable of doing something stupid, dangerous, and/or violent, but I know how to bet.

Discrimination - from the Latin discrimino, "to know the difference". Discrimination based on prejudice, i.e. lack of specific knowledge, or superficial generalities, is morally & ethically wrong. However, discrimiantion based on knowledge and experience is sound practice, and may, in fact, be part of a moral duty to protect yourself and your loved ones.

Defensive driving - good analogy - assume they're all idiots -- that way you'll never be disappointed, but occasionally pleasantly suprised.
 
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