Some more thoughts on the .357SIG
- Thread starter George Hill
- Start date
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
interesting.
Eric Larsen
New member
Cool thread. As far as a comparison between the 357 Mag and 357 Sig for the "Ultimate Knarly Bullet of the whatever......
In a snubbie the 357 Mag is still a respectable cartridge...you gotta remember a 2-2 1/2" barrel really doesnt make an adequate comparison to a 3 1/2" barrel...the shortest Sig barrel I know of. Your talking about 50-75% more barrel length for the Sig and alot of velocity is built in that little space. At 4" they are basically and ballistically the same. Past that, in the 5-6" realm the Mag takes over again as the king crusader. Im not defending either as they are quite adequate for defense.
I also see the reasoning in the 135 gr .40 as a little better. Im a self admitted .40 guy...has the best of the 9mm's speed and more weight to carry it. I also have 9mm's and other guns........
In a couple of months when Bar Sto makes the Sig Barrel for the Kahr K 40....I will have a K357...its only a 3.5" barrel...maybe a 4" with some porting..could be a shooter.
Shoot well
In a snubbie the 357 Mag is still a respectable cartridge...you gotta remember a 2-2 1/2" barrel really doesnt make an adequate comparison to a 3 1/2" barrel...the shortest Sig barrel I know of. Your talking about 50-75% more barrel length for the Sig and alot of velocity is built in that little space. At 4" they are basically and ballistically the same. Past that, in the 5-6" realm the Mag takes over again as the king crusader. Im not defending either as they are quite adequate for defense.
I also see the reasoning in the 135 gr .40 as a little better. Im a self admitted .40 guy...has the best of the 9mm's speed and more weight to carry it. I also have 9mm's and other guns........
In a couple of months when Bar Sto makes the Sig Barrel for the Kahr K 40....I will have a K357...its only a 3.5" barrel...maybe a 4" with some porting..could be a shooter.
Shoot well
Eric Larsen,
You have hit on the secret there.
While a P-239 or a G33 are roughly the same size overall as the 2.5" wheelie, they have a longer barrel, no b/c gap, and the .357SIG cartridge is shorter and fatter, which gives a more efficient burn for the fast powders required for good velocities from these short barrel lengths. When you start talking longer barrel lengths or bullet weights heavier than 125gr, the .357 Magnum has it all over the newer cartridge, which is pretty much a one-trick pony. But if the trick you're looking for is a potent self defense piece in a compact package, well, being a one-trick pony is just fine, then, isn't it?
You have hit on the secret there.
While a P-239 or a G33 are roughly the same size overall as the 2.5" wheelie, they have a longer barrel, no b/c gap, and the .357SIG cartridge is shorter and fatter, which gives a more efficient burn for the fast powders required for good velocities from these short barrel lengths. When you start talking longer barrel lengths or bullet weights heavier than 125gr, the .357 Magnum has it all over the newer cartridge, which is pretty much a one-trick pony. But if the trick you're looking for is a potent self defense piece in a compact package, well, being a one-trick pony is just fine, then, isn't it?
Eric Larsen
New member
Tamara,
Amen! When I get the "new improved" Sig barrel for the K40..I will get some stout 135gr 40 and like Sig ammo and test away.
Should prove to be an interesting shoot.
Shoot well
Amen! When I get the "new improved" Sig barrel for the K40..I will get some stout 135gr 40 and like Sig ammo and test away.
Should prove to be an interesting shoot.
Shoot well
I guess it's just me and my SIG, but my accuracy with 180 gr. .40 cal. Winchester ammo is BETTER than Speer .357 SIG in guns that I have shot. Different guns, but the SIG ammo actually keyholed at 25 yds. Personally, I find 125 gr. JHP .357 Mag. ammo, from a S&W 686 or 627, to be LESS violent than .357 SIG guns. That's personal and why they have horse races. (I get very good accuracy from a SIG 229, cal. .40! I am always amazed at the tales of inaccuracy with the .40 cal.)
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
.40 out of my old USP was plenty accurate... It was easy to shoot one hole groups with it out to the 15 yard line. 25 yards gave me a little bigger group, but it was stll all in the X ring.
Pigshooter
New member
Did it have something, however small, to do with the price the DPS got?
These things always remind me of import racers arguing which is faster, a honda civic Si or an accura integra.
Behold, the power of cheese!
These things always remind me of import racers arguing which is faster, a honda civic Si or an accura integra.
Behold, the power of cheese!
juliet charley
New member
Food for thought... (So what?)
The California Highway Patrol is happy with the .40 S&W (180-grain JHP) as are numerous other law enforcement agencies (some even, in Texas). The San Diego PD, the Los Angeles PD & SO, the St. Louis PD, among numerous other law enforcement agencies are happy with the 9x19 (147-grain JHP). So what?
The 357 Sig is, “Not a great or lousy cartridge, just another choice.”
The California Highway Patrol is happy with the .40 S&W (180-grain JHP) as are numerous other law enforcement agencies (some even, in Texas). The San Diego PD, the Los Angeles PD & SO, the St. Louis PD, among numerous other law enforcement agencies are happy with the 9x19 (147-grain JHP). So what?
The 357 Sig is, “Not a great or lousy cartridge, just another choice.”
Actually, I have more to say. Ya' know, I just walked in the door, stopped by my computer, sat down to check my email real quick before hittin' the ol' proverbial sack, and everything was fine. Then, I decided to take a quick look over here, and what do I find?--the same freakin' debate: this vs. that, "my caliber's better than your caliber"--that's what.
Quick newsflash: These are HANDGUN rounds guys, not death rays. I mean, what do you really think is the actual real world difference in effect between a 9mm +P or +p+ hollowpoint and a .357 Sig round, or .40 Shorty(even a Triton or Corbon 135 grainer) hollowpoint? Do you really think it's anything to even be talking about? Jesus, what a colossal waste of time.
Anybody who says that a top 9mm 115 gr +p or +p+ moving at 1350 fps or 124 gr +p or +p+ moving at 1250 fps can't get the same job done as the other calibers, is just a fool. I don't care who or what you're shooting at. Guess what? If one of those 9mm's won't do it, neither will any of the others--period. I'll even go a step further and say that if you can't handle the problem in front of you with 15 to 17 rounds of just regular ol' 9mm 115 grainers at 1150 fps, you're in way over your head, and it's just plain time to either run as fast as you can(which you probably should have done in the first place), or pray to He who has given you life. Oh, and for those of you stuck with only 10 round Klintonista magazines in your 9mm pistolas(because you either don't have the funds or the good sense to get yourself a bunch of pre-ban Reagan mags), the same goes for you.
Thank you, and goodnight.
Quick newsflash: These are HANDGUN rounds guys, not death rays. I mean, what do you really think is the actual real world difference in effect between a 9mm +P or +p+ hollowpoint and a .357 Sig round, or .40 Shorty(even a Triton or Corbon 135 grainer) hollowpoint? Do you really think it's anything to even be talking about? Jesus, what a colossal waste of time.
Anybody who says that a top 9mm 115 gr +p or +p+ moving at 1350 fps or 124 gr +p or +p+ moving at 1250 fps can't get the same job done as the other calibers, is just a fool. I don't care who or what you're shooting at. Guess what? If one of those 9mm's won't do it, neither will any of the others--period. I'll even go a step further and say that if you can't handle the problem in front of you with 15 to 17 rounds of just regular ol' 9mm 115 grainers at 1150 fps, you're in way over your head, and it's just plain time to either run as fast as you can(which you probably should have done in the first place), or pray to He who has given you life. Oh, and for those of you stuck with only 10 round Klintonista magazines in your 9mm pistolas(because you either don't have the funds or the good sense to get yourself a bunch of pre-ban Reagan mags), the same goes for you.
Thank you, and goodnight.
gun noise has disabled cops
I have read that noise from a 357 mag shot inside a car, or hallway inside a house, has resulted in temporary disorientation and permanent physical damage to cops. My understanding is that 357 sig is much louder than 40 S&W. I would choose another round than 357 sig because you may not always be shooting at a gun range with hearing protection.
I have read that noise from a 357 mag shot inside a car, or hallway inside a house, has resulted in temporary disorientation and permanent physical damage to cops. My understanding is that 357 sig is much louder than 40 S&W. I would choose another round than 357 sig because you may not always be shooting at a gun range with hearing protection.
viper,
The comment "A works better than B" does not automatically contain the assumption "B does not work".
I am 100% convinced that 10mm Auto, for instance, in its' hot 150gr/1325fps configuration is a much, much more powerful round than plain ol' 9mm +P; has more of that voodoo quality called "stopping power".
This does not, however, keep me from carrying my P7M8 with "only" 8+1 rounds of 9mm.
I think (and I've said it before) that many folks get so caught up in the search for "perfect" that they overlook "plenty darn good enough".
(Just so you know, I traded the last .357SIG pistol I had for a 5-shot .38 Spl revolver, which I would carry anyplace other than downtown Mogadishu just as happily as the mini Glock. Draw your own conclusions...
)
The comment "A works better than B" does not automatically contain the assumption "B does not work".
I am 100% convinced that 10mm Auto, for instance, in its' hot 150gr/1325fps configuration is a much, much more powerful round than plain ol' 9mm +P; has more of that voodoo quality called "stopping power".
This does not, however, keep me from carrying my P7M8 with "only" 8+1 rounds of 9mm.
I think (and I've said it before) that many folks get so caught up in the search for "perfect" that they overlook "plenty darn good enough".
(Just so you know, I traded the last .357SIG pistol I had for a 5-shot .38 Spl revolver, which I would carry anyplace other than downtown Mogadishu just as happily as the mini Glock. Draw your own conclusions...
)MH,
Yet other people have discharged .223 rifles in closed automobiles and kept fighting.
Also, I haven't noticed that .357SIG is any louder than .40 from an equivalent barrel length. Unless you're shooting softball 180gr target loads in the .40, the two rounds operate at nearly the same pressure, so why would one be louder?
Yet other people have discharged .223 rifles in closed automobiles and kept fighting.
Also, I haven't noticed that .357SIG is any louder than .40 from an equivalent barrel length. Unless you're shooting softball 180gr target loads in the .40, the two rounds operate at nearly the same pressure, so why would one be louder?
Tamara,
Obviously some people keep fighting no matter what the situation. My understanding from previous posts on the gun threads is that the 357 (or 355) Sig is an earblaster. I think it has to do with more than pressure. Diameter of bullet and bullet weight are factors. Maybe people with more information than I have at my finger tips can contribute.
If you can achieve the same results with a 40 or 45 that is easier on your ears, why use the 357 Sig? (or 357 magnum).
Regards,
Matt
Obviously some people keep fighting no matter what the situation. My understanding from previous posts on the gun threads is that the 357 (or 355) Sig is an earblaster. I think it has to do with more than pressure. Diameter of bullet and bullet weight are factors. Maybe people with more information than I have at my finger tips can contribute.
If you can achieve the same results with a 40 or 45 that is easier on your ears, why use the 357 Sig? (or 357 magnum).
Regards,
Matt
MH,
Diameter of the bullet and the weight of the bullet have nothing to do with muzzleblast. Amount of powder burned, operating pressure, bullet speed (supersonic or not) and barrel length are the main contributors to muzzleblast. Ironically, the round you tout (230gr .45 ACP) had a reputation for wild inaccuracy with most people outside of the expert shooting world before shooting with earmuffs became the norm. Why? Muzzleblast-caused flinch.
I have shot lots of .40 and .357SIG out of similarly-sized pistols, and, unless you are comparing softball subsonic 180gr target .40 to full-house .357SIG, there's no real difference in noise with the two when using defense loads.
Diameter of the bullet and the weight of the bullet have nothing to do with muzzleblast. Amount of powder burned, operating pressure, bullet speed (supersonic or not) and barrel length are the main contributors to muzzleblast. Ironically, the round you tout (230gr .45 ACP) had a reputation for wild inaccuracy with most people outside of the expert shooting world before shooting with earmuffs became the norm. Why? Muzzleblast-caused flinch.
I have shot lots of .40 and .357SIG out of similarly-sized pistols, and, unless you are comparing softball subsonic 180gr target .40 to full-house .357SIG, there's no real difference in noise with the two when using defense loads.