Socialized Medicine

PBP, are either of them eye docs? The post very clearly said that americans are "flocking" to canada and the UK for treatment not coming here.
I will say that in my many years of life I ain't one time heard of someone going there for treatment!
Brent
 
Like I said, I live in a medical family and the AMA reports that the only real substancial numbers we get from countries with socialized medicine are for "cosmetic" procedures.
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Even if that were true (it isn't), shouldn't that give you pause?

Cosmetic procedures are almost all elective and privately paid. According to the fans of socialized medicine, that ought to mean that only the super-rich can afford those, and that such a system encourages price-gouging and massive profit margins.

Yet cosmetic surgery and LASIK decrease in cost every year, and are more quickly available than just about any non-elective surgery under Medicare, despite the fact that the evil free market has totally free reign in the cosmetic surgery field. Anyone with a wage above that of a burger flipper can afford LASIK, and you can just about have the procedure done on the spot.

Yes, right now healthcare is one of the largest multi-billion dollar industries. take that profit away and place it into the actual care system.
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Yeah, take those evil profits away! Give nobody any incentive to go through 5 years of medical school and residency (and pile up a quarter million dollars in debt along the way), and take away all the incentives for corporations to develop new drugs and treatments.

You think the health care system is deplorable now? Wait until you "take that profit away".

Yes, right now healthcare is one of the largest multi-billion dollar industries. take that profit away and place it into the actual care system.
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Again, even if that were true, do you really think the answer to the cost problem is to get the government involved? When has filtering any payer system through the Fed ever made anything cheaper or more efficient?
 
PBP, are either of them eye docs? The post very clearly said that americans are "flocking" to canada and the UK for treatment not coming here.
I will say that in my many years of life I ain't one time heard of someone going there for treatment!
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The post implied that people from all countries were flocking to America for treatment which is not true. Maybe the were unable to grasp the meaning of the statement.

And I am sure there are many things in life you are not aware of...that does not have anything to do with altering the fact that the American healthcare system is low ranked, costly, and provides poor service.

And just so you know, the British healthcare system does have it's share of people "flooding" in from poorer European nations for treatment.
 
Our low ranking and high cost are not anecdotal. They are facts.
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For purposes of discussion, I'll accept your statement as true.

So how about anyone who wants a government-run health care plan, let's come up with a voluntary one that uses collective bargaining to reduce costs. And let's set it up so that anyone who opts out is not forced to pay more in taxes for those who sign up.

If you favor letting people have choices in life, let them choose which system they want to trust.
 
I doubt anyone "flocks" here for treatment. 'Cept them dern messicans but they are here for jobs and tax free income and exploitation of our completely inept welfare system!
Most would find... unless you are dieing or cash flush you need insurance!
Brent
 
And let's set it up so that anyone who opts out is not forced to pay more in taxes for those who sign up.
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Should people with no children be able to "opt out" from paying any taxes for schools or childcare related expenses?
 
So now we see why you have failed to give a direct answer to my question: You don't believe people should have a choice. How very paternalistic of you.

Well, I can see this is going nowhere, so ... C-ya, wouldn't want to B-ya!
 
Where is that money going? Where is it coming from is the correct question to ask.

It is coming from indivduals and insurance companies (who were selected by individuals), and it is going to physicians and health care professionals and the corporations who employ them. Additionally, it is going to pharmaceutical companies who will be bringing on new drugs to cure illness.

Do I mind if they're getting rich making me better? No. I enjoy that.

If I thought they were just unreasonably profitable, I would buy their stock so I could get rich with them, but their stock is lackluster meaning that they likely aren't as profitable as you imagine them to be.
 
I communicate with folks daily from around the planet. Many are in the UK one is in New Zealand and one is a chinese to name a few/several The europeans feel that they are better off to go "private" as the care is poor in the gov sponsored system. My buddy in new zealand says that if you need EMERGENCY care you will get it. EVERYTHING else is stand in line! He is also a rural livin' guy and feels short of a near amputation he would rather fix himself!
My chinese buddy knows no other way than socialized medicine and feels it is "hurry to get there and wait to be cared for..."
Brent
 
School tax? As a parent I feel only the parents of children should pay for their education! No reason for anyone else to pay for my kids' education. If I could opt out of the 911 taxes on my phone i would... I ain't gonna use it anyway! After a "situation" of anysort I can look up a number in the phone book.
Brent
 
I planned to move on, but I have one last question for Playboypenguin: What's so important about health care that it must be nationalized?
 
What's so important about health care that it must be nationalized?
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Anyone that would ask that question obviously believes that no man has any rights beyond those he can grant himself through the strength of his fists. Do people that become ill not deserve the same rights as people that stay healthy? Do people that are injured not deserve simple care so they can return to being a productive member of society...or do we move to a system where people are disposable and only those that can stay strong and healthy are of any value and all others should be seen as fodder?
 
As a practicing Physician Assistant in emergency and occupational medicine, I find this thread almost entirely based on opinion and lacking credibility - I also struggle to see ANY relevance to firearms!
 
Do people that become ill not deserve the same rights as people that stay healthy? Do people that are injured not deserve simple care so they can return to being a productive member of society...or do we move to a system where people are disposable and only those that can stay strong and healthy are of any value and all others should be seen as fodder?
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Actually, I can imagine a variety of reasons. I just wanted to know what yours are.

So am I correct in thinking that your primary concern is that poor people who can't afford treatment might die? And/or that they might be kept from being productive citizens? I don't want to put words into your mouth; I want to make sure I understand your primary concerns in an area with numerous concerns.
 
I also struggle to see ANY relevance to firearms!
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For one thing, you might want to reference the OP's first post, where he asks the moderators to allow this thread.

For a second thing, I've known people whose doctors have asked their children questions about guns in the home during doctor visits. If nationalized health care is enacted, this kind of questioning might be a concern to law-abiding gun owners (if it isn't already). I'd say that's relevant to firearms.
As a practicing Physician Assistant in emergency and occupational medicine, I find this thread almost entirely based on opinion and lacking credibility
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If you're familiar with cone biopsies and the LEAP treatment I mentioned previously, you'll know my post is not based on opinion and lacking credibility.
 
I AM WITHOUT INSURANCE! That said I will say NO ONE needs to "GRANT" it to me! I made choices! Good or bad... I opted to work for the little guy and knew insurance from them was not to be had. I also opted not to get a big degree to assure me of a better salary. I suck it up! Don't do me any favors! I don't want yer government hand outs! If you are gonna try to charge me more in taxes... Poop in one hand and try in the other and see which fills faster!
i may be the exception to the po folk un insured rule in that I acknowledge my decisions... Everyone else in my boat made them decisions. They may be too stupid to realize it or to embarrassed they were too stupid at the time to make better decisions.
Warning labels are the life support system for the terminally stupid! Most all parents taught kids to excel and prosper, either by example or the "Don't be a stupid fool as I was... get an education and work with benefits..."
Brent
 
If you are gonna try to charge me more in taxes..
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Why would there need to be "new taxes" in the first place?

We already spend more taxpayer money now on healthcare than other industrialized nations that provide free services.

The only difference is the vast majority of the money there goes into the system...here it goes into the pockets of shareholders and CEO's of large healthcare companies.

Also, people love to cite the "red tape" that is in place now in healthcare and blame the government when the vast majority of this red tape is actually brought forward by the healthcare providers as a means to reduce expenditures and deny services.
 
Whyte P38

"For a second thing, I've known people whose doctors have asked their children questions about guns in the home during doctor visits. If nationalized health care is enacted, this kind of questioning might be a concern to law-abiding gun owners (if it isn't already). I'd say that's relevant to firearms."


This has nothing to do with socialized medicine - it is entirely due to super large organiztaions (AAP and AMA) that are full of antigun doctors and lawyers - There is no governmental involvement in these faulted decisions and the questioning of parent's gun habits already exists - We are urged to ask these questions of young children, and I have never and will never do such an invasion of one's privacy. See http://www.dsgl.org/ and http://www.claremont.org/projects/projectid.12/project_detail.asp

Again people are making speculations on how to fix a bad system - I for one, agree, it is bad - But the answer will not come easy.
 
I also struggle to see ANY relevance to firearms!
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Stop struggling...the description for the L&P section is as follows...

"Round table discussions range from the Bill of Rights, to concealed carry, to general political issues."

There is no requirement that it be firearm related. You are confusing L&P with General Discussions. :)
 
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