So the latest Mosin "group".

I think you are getting solid advice... those little orange paister dots are great for a scope, but I also find a black dot easier to aim at ( harder to see bullet holes, but much easier to aim )

I like my dots at 4 MOA ( 1 inch at 25 yards, 2" at 50 yards, 4" at 100 yards, 8" at 200 yards, 12" at 300 yards when shooting with iron sights ) doesn't mean you are limiting yourself to 4 MOA groups, often my groups are with in the dot, so less than 4 MOA
 
Which brings up another good point-

Don't worry about where on the target the holes are, just worry about keeping them all in the same place.

In other words, use the 6 0'clock hold, stick with the SAME sight picture & aiming point, and DO NOT be shifting your aim around trying to put all the holes inside the dot.

As long as the holes are on paper, in the same spot, and close together, that's what you're looking for right now.
Denis
 
Could I use some of those red and white sight-in targets? They're very easy to see at that range and I don't have the opportunity to get Black targets yet.
I'd only be shooting 4 rounds today if I did.
 
For my eyes ( I'm older ) I don't see red all that "clearly"...

...just take a soup can or what ever is the right size, trace it's outline & fill it in with a black magic marker

BTW... I use my computer & printer, & just print the proper sized solid black dot on a piece of paper, & tape it to a clean backer, if I don't know where the bullets will go... cheap as a sheet of paper, nothing to buy
 
Mo,
Are you listening?

Read the above bit about the BLACK BULLS.
Read previous commentary on shooting a LOT.

10 rounds one day & 4 rounds another day is not going to get you there.

You should be looking at a minimum of 30 rounds per session.
The tiny volumes you're doing are not enough to let you figure out what you're doing, to establish what works & what doesn't, or to build in familiarity & muscle memory.

Don't mean to be knocking you, but we've also been over patience, which you're a bit short on, and trying to emphasize that there's a right approach to all this & a wrong approach.
You're doing the wrong approach.

Guy, if you're not going to listen to good advice, why do you keep asking?
You've got access to people here who've been shooting for up to 50 years & more.
In my case, I've been testing guns for accuracy as part of my job for 24 years, and that involves dozens of guns each year. Not to mention what I did before & do on my own now, with personal guns that also involves accuracy testing both with commercial ammunition and homegrown reloads.

My job is at least 50% accuracy testing.
Other people here do competition shooting & longer-range hunting, where accuracy's important.

If you can't afford to shoot the amounts of ammunition you need to shoot, you picked two great military collectables, but two poor choices for learning riflery.

On the Mosin, wait till you CAN do it right (more ammo, better targets), and then DO it right.
You don't quite understand, but mostly what you're doing is wasting time & ammo.

I'm not sure you picked up much at your Appleseed, if you used a borrowed .22 & only shot a few rounds through your Mosin at 30 meters, but I'm getting the impression they really didn't teach you much about shooting.

In the meantime, and I know you think you've learned as much as you can with that Ruger .22, but you haven't- TRY IT AT 75 YARDS & TRY IT AT 100 YARDS!
Ammo's affordable, and you still need more trigger time at longer distances in learning iron sights.

Patience!
Settle down.
Do it right.
Denis

Add: The day I put 3 holes under an inch at 100 yards with one of my Mosins & iron sights was done on the black bull I told you about.
Other Mosins with irons & that bull have run 3 inches or less with surplus, tighter with commercial.

It's not just a matter of "seeing" the aiming point, it needs clearly defined boundaries & outlines, which the orange ones don't have.

You seem to be going out of your way to make it as hard on yourself as possible by ricocheting all over the map with your rifle.
Make it simple, stop complicating things. :)
 
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You're not being stupid, you're just being impatient & not listening. :)

You are, though, the only person in the world who ever does that.... :)
Denis
 
I've found out why it was shooting badly.

Ammunition.

I've looked over every Mosin-Nagant target I've shot with those Yugo 186.6 grain bullets and they all were bad/ below average. I guess my rifle doesnt like that ammo, if that's even possible.
The ones I've shot with commercial and other surplus were consistently better.

I shot 20 rounds of those yugo rounds and they all either didn't hit the paper or were so bad they shouldn't have hit the paper. I'm going to get some Russian surplus. Then I'll start shooting it again. Until then I am going to stick to my K-31.
 
Good idea.
Take the TIME & do it right, even it means lotsa sleepless nights in the meantime before you can get back to your beloved Russkie.

There's been much debate over which bullet, heavy or light, the average Mosin was zeroed with & intended to be used with during the War.
& after.
If heavy isn't working in your rifle, get a spam can (not just 20 rounds) of the lighter 147s & go from there.
Denis
 
Going to work the rest of the week. So I feel that will be my next investment. Meanwhile I need to practice with the K-31. (Did I mention that thing is a blast to shoot?)
 
I've found out why it was shooting badly.

Ammunition.

I've looked over every Mosin-Nagant target I've shot with those Yugo 186.6 grain bullets and they all were bad/ below average. I guess my rifle doesnt like that ammo, if that's even possible.
The ones I've shot with commercial and other surplus were consistently better.

I shot 20 rounds of those yugo rounds and they all either didn't hit the paper or were so bad they shouldn't have hit the paper. I'm going to get some Russian surplus. Then I'll start shooting it again. Until then I am going to stick to my K-31.
Click to expand...
forgive me but I seriously doubt that russian surplus is going to be any more accurate that the yugo stuff. relatively speaking, Yugo is equal to or better quality in almost all aspects of craftsmanship.

in the 20s-40s, yugoslavia made mausers which were every bit as good as what Germany was cranking out.

Yugoslavian SKS are considered by many to be just as good as russian SKS(albiet a slight design flaw in the gas system)

yugoslavian M67(7.62x39mm) is one of the most sought after of the surplus x39 due to it's accuracy.

I'm sorry but switching from one surplus load to another and expecting noticeable increase in accuracy is like trading a dodge caravan for a plymouth Voyager and wondering why they have the same gas mileage.
 
It's my experience that no matter what I do or try. Yugoslavian surplus shoots terribly in my rifle. Russian shoots a lot better. The heavier winchester rounds I shot didn't do too terribly well. I think it's something about my rifle not shooting heavier rounds well.
 
would you mind letting us know how much of each type of ammunition you've fired? the way I read it, you have been shooting nothing but yugo with some commercial ammo interspersed, and were going to try russian.
 
36 rounds of Russian Steel Core 147 Grain
10 Rounds of Winchester 180 grain soft points
80+ Rounds of Yugoslavian 186.6 grain surplus
18/19 rounds of Tula 147 grain FMJ (1-2 FTF's. Other than that shot well)

I think that's about it.
 
Hi MM,
Generally speaking the 91/30 will probably do better with the 147 gr. (light ball) ammo. Being consistant and trying to get the rifle to group is the first step in marksmanship. Somewhere in cyberspace is a document titled/ about "The Six Steps to Firing a Rifle" It will tell you what you need to know. Shooting .22 is also good along with dry firing. HTH
Best,
Rob

P.S. "Practice doesn't make perfect, Perfect practice makes perfect."
 
alright that's starting to make a bit more sense to me. yes the heavier bullets are likely going to reduce your accuracy, generally you only use them once you've built up your marksmanship skills or for hunting, it would probably be a good idea to move to 147 grain ammo so you're good there. one thing to consider may be to shop around for good deals on wolf brand ammo, I generally have good results with that in my mosin.
 
Magnum Wheel Man said:
( harder to see bullet holes, but much easier to aim )
Click to expand...

Look at the ones I linked above. They look like a black bull with iron sights at 100 yards, but even with a 4X scope you can see your holes. Simple JPG file, 100 yard reduced versions of the NRA across the course targets, SR1, SR21c and MR31c.

tahunua001 said:
I'm sorry but switching from one surplus load to another and expecting noticeable increase in accuracy is like trading a dodge caravan for a plymouth Voyager and wondering why they have the same gas mileage.
Click to expand...

You would be surprised. Lots of people have noticed accuracy differences between different types of surplus, and I have 2 91/30s which like different ones. My PU Sniper likes the Yugo heavy ball the best (just over 2 MOA), and shoots it exactly the same as current production PPU heavy ball and soft points. Of what I have shot through it, it likes the 1970s vintage Soviet light ball the least (~3.5 MOA). The old Yugo re-manufactured/repackaged WW2 Soviet light ball it shoots better (~2.5 MOA).

My other 91/30 is a standard 1943 Izhevsk and it likes the Yugo/USSR light stuff best, and doesn't shoot the Yugo heavy that well at all.
 
sigh

ok may i recommend getting a 7.62x54r tin of ammo and just do an ALL DAY shoot?

thats the only way you will improve , and the experience is worth it.

lucky gunner had a sale and i got 400 rounds x2 each was 89$ , its worth it and allows you not to be stingy with ammo

when i first got my mosin i was stingy and that lead to me not shooting as much initially, more ammo means more fun and experience

i can also recommend bolt on parts to stabilize the mosin , that wont need a gunsmith or modifications
 
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