Photon Guy
New member
You're taking what I said out of context. I would suggest going back and reading the entire post.
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So some of the posts have been really helpful for rifles
- Thread starter Photon Guy
- Start date
You're taking what I said out of context. I would suggest going back and reading the entire post.
Pathfinder45
New member
Clearly, Photon, you have deeper pockets than many, so you can afford whatever rifle you want. If I wanted a really nice bolt-action rifle and the price was irrelevant, I would still be getting a model 70 Winchester, and it would have a walnut stock. But there would still be some questions to resolve: Will it be new, or pre-64, or pre-War? If it is to be a newer version it would be either the Classic Sporter or the Alaskan. It would have to be a 30-'06 or 270 Winchester. But if it was to be a pre-64 or pre-War, there might be some other acceptable calibers. But, yeah, if I had 7 grand to blow on a rifle, the only thing I would be sure about is that it would be a Winchester. If not a model 70, then it would likely be an older 1886 or 71.
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Some people "confer a lot with gun store clerks".
So do I, and I know guns store clerks as well as other sales people push products that wont normally sell them selves.
I've seen gun clerks raving about the merits of a $2900 M1 Garand, but I know Garands, the rifle he's pushing wouldn't be allowed on the racks of Garands at the CMP with their $630 rifles.
Sorry, I don't do recommendations from clerks, gun store's or any other saleman.
You want a $7000 shooter, good, get one. Pay $500 for the rifle, and $6450 for ammo and learn to shoot it. The weakest link to any rifle is the guy pulling the trigger.
Wait, $500 + $6450 is only $6950. That's not common core math, that's a hint to set aside $50 and buy cleaning gear and lubes to keep your rifle from Rusting.
I have a Model 70 Win in 375 H&H I paid $235 for in 1974. I spent a lot of thine hunting with it in the salt spray of Southern Alaska, (Afognak Island to be more accurate). That rifle is 42 years old and doesn't have a speck of rust on it. Why??? Because I always carried a can of "RIG", and kept it coated.
I was putting on a CMP Clinic/Match one year. The match was won buy a guy who the night before went to town and bought a Mosin for $119 and some cheap surplus ammo.
He didn't win the match because the Mosin was better then the Garands, Springfields and others, he won by sticking to fundamentals that the Garand and Springfield shooters neglected.
So do I, and I know guns store clerks as well as other sales people push products that wont normally sell them selves.
I've seen gun clerks raving about the merits of a $2900 M1 Garand, but I know Garands, the rifle he's pushing wouldn't be allowed on the racks of Garands at the CMP with their $630 rifles.
Sorry, I don't do recommendations from clerks, gun store's or any other saleman.
You want a $7000 shooter, good, get one. Pay $500 for the rifle, and $6450 for ammo and learn to shoot it. The weakest link to any rifle is the guy pulling the trigger.
Wait, $500 + $6450 is only $6950. That's not common core math, that's a hint to set aside $50 and buy cleaning gear and lubes to keep your rifle from Rusting.
I have a Model 70 Win in 375 H&H I paid $235 for in 1974. I spent a lot of thine hunting with it in the salt spray of Southern Alaska, (Afognak Island to be more accurate). That rifle is 42 years old and doesn't have a speck of rust on it. Why??? Because I always carried a can of "RIG", and kept it coated.
I was putting on a CMP Clinic/Match one year. The match was won buy a guy who the night before went to town and bought a Mosin for $119 and some cheap surplus ammo.
He didn't win the match because the Mosin was better then the Garands, Springfields and others, he won by sticking to fundamentals that the Garand and Springfield shooters neglected.
Well said,Kraig
Its a really good question to ask"What does "Quality"mean?
Depends on the customer.
I'm twisted in that I just don't get any satisfaction out of buying a new,factory gun.More likely,I'll get buyers remorse.
Most factory rifles are good,functional tools.And very often,their owners have a regard for them.Most people do not like to hear anyone badmouth wife,kid,dog,or the firearm they use.
You show me your pride and joy,Remington,Savage,Mossberg,Ruger,Weatherby,Grandpa's Springfield he sporterized,I'm going to ask "Does it shoot for you?" Then I'm going to say "Nice rifle"...And with sincerity.
The military and a lot of other folks have chosen Remington 700's.
Out of the box Savages outshoot a lot of really expensive rifles.I have not shot any Rugers lately,but the early 77's that I shot were accurate.
My problem is,not any of those,even the exotics like a weatherby or a Sako,give me a warm fuzzy feeling.
I have to start with some receiver or action,be it a Mexican Mauser,Springfield,Rolling block,cigar box of Ithaca 37 parts....a 98/09,or some Colt 1911 slide,then I have a vision of what I want,and I build it.
I have a Model 70 Laredo,and a Garand.And a 308 DPMS.Those were bought already built.
But its all in the eye of the beholder.Most folks might not give $200 for my MexMauser .257.I just smile and say I'm not looking to sell it.I can't buy a rifle to replace it.
BTW,as I remember it,Kimber started out filling the niche for a quality,grown up,wood and steel,very accurate .22 rimfire. The guaranteed 1 MOA at 100 yds with good ammo.I guess from what BartB wrote here,they don't make that good of .22 ammo anymore.
But,thats what I remember the Kimber for.
They appeal to folks who get off on the Anschutz and Win 52,but in a sporter trim.
Its a really good question to ask"What does "Quality"mean?
Depends on the customer.
I'm twisted in that I just don't get any satisfaction out of buying a new,factory gun.More likely,I'll get buyers remorse.
Most factory rifles are good,functional tools.And very often,their owners have a regard for them.Most people do not like to hear anyone badmouth wife,kid,dog,or the firearm they use.
You show me your pride and joy,Remington,Savage,Mossberg,Ruger,Weatherby,Grandpa's Springfield he sporterized,I'm going to ask "Does it shoot for you?" Then I'm going to say "Nice rifle"...And with sincerity.
The military and a lot of other folks have chosen Remington 700's.
Out of the box Savages outshoot a lot of really expensive rifles.I have not shot any Rugers lately,but the early 77's that I shot were accurate.
My problem is,not any of those,even the exotics like a weatherby or a Sako,give me a warm fuzzy feeling.
I have to start with some receiver or action,be it a Mexican Mauser,Springfield,Rolling block,cigar box of Ithaca 37 parts....a 98/09,or some Colt 1911 slide,then I have a vision of what I want,and I build it.
I have a Model 70 Laredo,and a Garand.And a 308 DPMS.Those were bought already built.
But its all in the eye of the beholder.Most folks might not give $200 for my MexMauser .257.I just smile and say I'm not looking to sell it.I can't buy a rifle to replace it.
BTW,as I remember it,Kimber started out filling the niche for a quality,grown up,wood and steel,very accurate .22 rimfire. The guaranteed 1 MOA at 100 yds with good ammo.I guess from what BartB wrote here,they don't make that good of .22 ammo anymore.
But,thats what I remember the Kimber for.
They appeal to folks who get off on the Anschutz and Win 52,but in a sporter trim.
Photon Guy
New member
Clearly, Photon, you have deeper pockets than many, so you can afford whatever rifle you want. If I wanted a really nice bolt-action rifle and the price was irrelevant, I would still be getting a model 70 Winchester, and it would have a walnut stock. But there would still be some questions to resolve: Will it be new, or pre-64, or pre-War? If it is to be a newer version it would be either the Classic Sporter or the Alaskan. It would have to be a 30-'06 or 270 Winchester. But if it was to be a pre-64 or pre-War, there might be some other acceptable calibers. But, yeah, if I had 7 grand to blow on a rifle, the only thing I would be sure about is that it would be a Winchester. If not a model 70, then it would likely be an older 1886 or 71.
Now days I've got more money than I used to but I still don't have deep enough pockets to get any rifle I want on a whim. The 7 grand rifle I got that was a one time splurge that I was able to get since I had recently come by a good amount of cash, but its not something that I come by on a regular basis nor am I able to buy rifles like that on a regular basis. But I had wanted a big safari grade rifle for a long long time and I had the opportunity to get one. As for spending 2 grand on a rifle that would be something I would have to save up for, not something I could do right away.
I do know what its like to buy guns on a tight budget. When I got my first gun I was working as a lifeguard and I bought it on the pay that you get when you're a lifeguard. I really wanted a good quality gun though so I saved up and bought a Smith & Wesson, not a Taurus which I had at first considered buying. Also, the fact that I had to go through a 9 month waiting period to get the gun really gave me time to save up for it.
Photon Guy
New member
When I do confer with gun store clerks I take what they say and I check it by doing further research. This further research involves talking to other gun enthusiasts, instructors, and researching on the internet which includes using forums such as this one. So some of my posts here, a good deal of my posts here are part of my research. Also, when I find a gun I want I check various sources to see where I can get it for the lowest price. This involves visiting different gun shops and in this day and age checking the internet as you can get really good prices when buying guns online. Often you will pay less for guns online than you would at a gun shop, even with the transfer fee. So when Im told something by a gun shop clerk I don't automatically believe it but I don't automatically dismiss it either. I check it against other sources. I do my homework, which involves all of the above.Some people "confer a lot with gun store clerks".
So do I, and I know guns store clerks as well as other sales people push products that wont normally sell them selves.
I've seen gun clerks raving about the merits of a $2900 M1 Garand, but I know Garands, the rifle he's pushing wouldn't be allowed on the racks of Garands at the CMP with their $630 rifles.
Sorry, I don't do recommendations from clerks, gun store's or any other saleman.
Not including my black powder rifles, I bought my first rifle for $300 and its a .22 so I can get much more ammo for a much lower price than for rifles in most other calibers so I get that much more practice. Of course the cheapest practice is dry practice.You want a $7000 shooter, good, get one. Pay $500 for the rifle, and $6450 for ammo and learn to shoot it. The weakest link to any rifle is the guy pulling the trigger.
Wait, $500 + $6450 is only $6950. That's not common core math, that's a hint to set aside $50 and buy cleaning gear and lubes to keep your rifle from Rusting.
And I've got good cleaning and oiling supplies too.
I must say $235 is a good price for a 375 H&H even back in 1974 although this is just an educated guess on my part since 1974 was before my time. So did you buy the rifle new or used?I have a Model 70 Win in 375 H&H I paid $235 for in 1974. I spent a lot of thine hunting with it in the salt spray of Southern Alaska, (Afognak Island to be more accurate). That rifle is 42 years old and doesn't have a speck of rust on it. Why??? Because I always carried a can of "RIG", and kept it coated.
Well certainly its not the gun but its the person using it that makes the biggest difference although it does make sense to have a gun in good working order and its good to take advantage of the low prices on surplus ammo although you do have to be careful with that as supposedly some of the junk ammo can be bad for your firearm.I was putting on a CMP Clinic/Match one year. The match was won buy a guy who the night before went to town and bought a Mosin for $119 and some cheap surplus ammo.
He didn't win the match because the Mosin was better then the Garands, Springfields and others, he won by sticking to fundamentals that the Garand and Springfield shooters neglected.
Hey Photon Guy--how about some details about the safari gun in post #11. Don't be fooled by my high post count. I can NOT take a look at a rifle and immediately tell you the manufacturer, the caliber, details about the scope, etc.
One of my friends keeps saying this life we're living isn't a rehearsal, it's the real thing. He uses this to explain some of his purchases and IMhO he's right.
And if you really want to play games to justify a purchase nothing can beat my game where I figure if I take care of it, a firearm will last me a lifetime and probably the lifetime of whoever I leave it to...that makes the life of the gun just about forever so the cost (what ever it is) per month is just about nothing.
I guess what I'm trying to say is good for you for buying a rifle you really wanted.
One of my friends keeps saying this life we're living isn't a rehearsal, it's the real thing. He uses this to explain some of his purchases and IMhO he's right.
And if you really want to play games to justify a purchase nothing can beat my game where I figure if I take care of it, a firearm will last me a lifetime and probably the lifetime of whoever I leave it to...that makes the life of the gun just about forever so the cost (what ever it is) per month is just about nothing.
I guess what I'm trying to say is good for you for buying a rifle you really wanted.
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I know this a gun forum, but recently I passed through Smokey Mountain Knife Works in Sevierville, TN . I have one gun club bud who is a custom knife maker, and because I love sharp edged things, I know many dedicated collectors.
They all have stories about which brands are the best and within the brands, what years are the best. I have been told that Case knives from such and such era are the best, and I have been told similar stories about other brand names.
Well, there are times when workmanship is better, and fit and finish might be better. My Boker 1976 Bicentennial knives are a bit rough compared to a Case of the same time period. But either takes an edge and holds it.
Case knives today show excellent fit and finish, take an edge and hold it, and what more do you expect of a knife? I talked with the guys behind the Case counter at SMKW and asked them if they had heard earnest collectors tell them that current Case knives are junk compared to ones a specific decade ago. I got a lot of eye rolling. Yes, they had, in volumes, "all the time".
I think the same is true of guns. Many people claiming this brand is good or bad, or this era is much better, really are talking from emotion more than evidence. I think most of them have a romanticized image they identify with and of course, everything in that fantasy land was better, strawberries were more strawberrier, cherries were more cherrier, the sun was brighter and it never rained . A good place to find this sort of person is at Culver Shooting Forum in the Garand and M1903 sub forums. Just go in there and claim the double heat treat M1903 was made of crap materials and the Garand can't shoot straight. You will get pilloried.
As a general rule, the guns of today are better made, of better materials, than ever before. Expensive features have dropped off, wood has gone to plastic, but today's stuff is excellent for the price point. You can always get more by paying more.
They all have stories about which brands are the best and within the brands, what years are the best. I have been told that Case knives from such and such era are the best, and I have been told similar stories about other brand names.
Well, there are times when workmanship is better, and fit and finish might be better. My Boker 1976 Bicentennial knives are a bit rough compared to a Case of the same time period. But either takes an edge and holds it.
Case knives today show excellent fit and finish, take an edge and hold it, and what more do you expect of a knife? I talked with the guys behind the Case counter at SMKW and asked them if they had heard earnest collectors tell them that current Case knives are junk compared to ones a specific decade ago. I got a lot of eye rolling. Yes, they had, in volumes, "all the time".
I think the same is true of guns. Many people claiming this brand is good or bad, or this era is much better, really are talking from emotion more than evidence. I think most of them have a romanticized image they identify with and of course, everything in that fantasy land was better, strawberries were more strawberrier, cherries were more cherrier, the sun was brighter and it never rained . A good place to find this sort of person is at Culver Shooting Forum in the Garand and M1903 sub forums. Just go in there and claim the double heat treat M1903 was made of crap materials and the Garand can't shoot straight. You will get pilloried.
As a general rule, the guns of today are better made, of better materials, than ever before. Expensive features have dropped off, wood has gone to plastic, but today's stuff is excellent for the price point. You can always get more by paying more.
Manufacturing has greatly improves in the past ~50 years or so, to the point even bargain basement entry level rifles normally shoot quite well, better than most shooters.
I am still not really understanding what you are looking for. I know you were interested in a Steyr hunting rifle in 270 Win, are you just looking for a hunting rifle?
What is it you are looking for?
I am still not really understanding what you are looking for. I know you were interested in a Steyr hunting rifle in 270 Win, are you just looking for a hunting rifle?
What is it you are looking for?
Photon Guy
New member
Well if you ask me, I would say the best way to determine if a gun is good or not or if a brand is good or not is first hand experience. Its ideal to be able to fire a type of gun of a certain brand to see how it works for you and if you can find a range that rents out guns and that rents out the kind of gun you want to test out that's great. If you've got a friend who owns a gun you're interested in and your friend lets you try it out that's better, aside from trying the gun out your friend can also tell you of their experiences owning it. Than if you're satisfied you can buy and own the gun yourself and learn from your own experiences owning it. From my experiences I know what brands I like although there are brands I've yet to try. My experience with Remington has been both good and bad. I've never tried let alone owned a Browning but I would like to someday. I have heard that Browning makes excellent break open shotguns but Im not sure how their rifles are.I know this a gun forum, but recently I passed through Smokey Mountain Knife Works in Sevierville, TN . I have one gun club bud who is a custom knife maker, and because I love sharp edged things, I know many dedicated collectors.
They all have stories about which brands are the best and within the brands, what years are the best. I have been told that Case knives from such and such era are the best, and I have been told similar stories about other brand names.
Well, there are times when workmanship is better, and fit and finish might be better. My Boker 1976 Bicentennial knives are a bit rough compared to a Case of the same time period. But either takes an edge and holds it.
Case knives today show excellent fit and finish, take an edge and hold it, and what more do you expect of a knife? I talked with the guys behind the Case counter at SMKW and asked them if they had heard earnest collectors tell them that current Case knives are junk compared to ones a specific decade ago. I got a lot of eye rolling. Yes, they had, in volumes, "all the time".
I think the same is true of guns. Many people claiming this brand is good or bad, or this era is much better, really are talking from emotion more than evidence. I think most of them have a romanticized image they identify with and of course, everything in that fantasy land was better, strawberries were more strawberrier, cherries were more cherrier, the sun was brighter and it never rained . A good place to find this sort of person is at Culver Shooting Forum in the Garand and M1903 sub forums. Just go in there and claim the double heat treat M1903 was made of crap materials and the Garand can't shoot straight. You will get pilloried.
I would say that's mostly true. And sometimes the plastic or synthetic material can be better than wood, just look at the Glock. I love my Remington 870 which has a synthetic stock as does my Marlin although I would say there are exceptions about guns being better made today. With some of their products I would say Remington has recently gone the way of Ford and I speak from my own experience.As a general rule, the guns of today are better made, of better materials, than ever before. Expensive features have dropped off, wood has gone to plastic, but today's stuff is excellent for the price point. You can always get more by paying more.
I must say $235 is a good price for a 375 H&H even back in 1974 although this is just an educated guess on my part since 1974 was before my time. So did you buy the rifle new or used?
New. Bought it at the Ft. Richardson PX, Anchorage AK.
Photon Guy
New member
Manufacturing has greatly improves in the past ~50 years or so, to the point even bargain basement entry level rifles normally shoot quite well, better than most shooters.
I am still not really understanding what you are looking for. I know you were interested in a Steyr hunting rifle in 270 Win, are you just looking for a hunting rifle?
What is it you are looking for?
What I'm looking for is a good high quality hunting rifle for medium to large game. I was considering the Steyr but after some research I might instead settle for a Cooper or a Dakota Arms. I've got a Remington 750 in .30-06 but Im looking for something more high end and preferably bolt action. And a round of similar size to the .30-06 but with more velocity.
Expensive features have dropped off
You can include Labor in that, less time spent on fit and finish.
What I'm looking for is a good high quality hunting rifle for medium to large game. I was considering the Steyr but after some research I might instead settle for a Cooper or a Dakota Arms. I've got a Remington 750 in .30-06 but Im looking for something more high end and preferably bolt action. And a round of similar size to the .30-06 but with more velocity.
So you are wanting something off the shelf? Meaning, have you ruled out buying an action or donor rifle and building something?
7mm Rem Mag or 300 Win Mag fit that description, but belted magnums tend to give up a little accuracy compared to standard non-belted cased cartridges. Depending on how good a shot you are, you may never notice.
Photon Guy said:And a round of similar size to the .30-06 but with more velocity.
I love the .270 Win but I got to ask, what's with wanting more velocity? You seem to be hung up on it by what you posted in the hunt. With equal weight bullets the .30-06 is going to produce more initial velocity, but down range beyond normal hunting ranges the .270 Win will be faster with equal weight bullets.
IMO muzzle velocity means very little, but retained velocity down range means everything. The higher the BC bullet the better off you are, even when using hunting bullets. It's all about finding balance In what you want to accomplish with the cartridge.
Photon Guy
New member
I love the .270 Win but I got to ask, what's with wanting more velocity? You seem to be hung up on it by what you posted in the hunt. With equal weight bullets the .30-06 is going to produce more initial velocity, but down range beyond normal hunting ranges the .270 Win will be faster with equal weight bullets.
IMO muzzle velocity means very little, but retained velocity down range means everything. The higher the BC bullet the better off you are, even when using hunting bullets. It's all about finding balance In what you want to accomplish with the cartridge.
I will bring some physics into discussion. The equation for determining kinetic energy is 1/2 mass times velocity squared. Another words, you take the velocity, square it, multiply it by the mass, and divide the result by half and that gives you the total kinetic energy. So, there are two ways of increasing the kinetic energy into the target. One way is to increase the mass of your bullet, since the mass is multiplied greater mass means more energy. But, the other way to increase kinetic energy is by increasing the velocity. And since the velocity is squared you get greater effect increasing the velocity than by increasing the mass. So by increasing velocity you're transferring more kinetic energy into the target than if you increase mass. That is why I want more velocity.
Well I explained in your other post that by 300 yards a 90 grain bullet from a .243 equalled the velocity and energy of the same weight bullet in a .270 fired 400 +/- FPS faster at the muzzle. So I'm not ignoring physics at all, I'm just adding aerodynamics into the equation which you aren't considering. Even though your bullet starts out with a lot more energy, by 100 yards my .243 bullet is within 200 ft-lbs of energy as yours. So if you think 200 ft-lbs extra is necessary to kill deer at 100 yards when both bullets are above 1500 ft-lbs at that distance then use the .270 Win. The deer can't tell the difference.
Or to put it another way a 130 grain bullet fired at 3060 FPS will have 400 ft-lbs more energy at 100 yards than your 90 grain bullet fired out of the same .270 Win rifle at 3600 FPS. If you want energy lighter and faster usually isn't the way to go IME. Trading a high BC bullet for a lower BC bullet with higher initial MV is a bad a idea, kind of like trying to tow a 10,000 lb payload with an El Camino.
If more energy is your goal lighter and faster rarely gets it done when it comes to projectiles.
Or to put it another way a 130 grain bullet fired at 3060 FPS will have 400 ft-lbs more energy at 100 yards than your 90 grain bullet fired out of the same .270 Win rifle at 3600 FPS. If you want energy lighter and faster usually isn't the way to go IME. Trading a high BC bullet for a lower BC bullet with higher initial MV is a bad a idea, kind of like trying to tow a 10,000 lb payload with an El Camino.
If more energy is your goal lighter and faster rarely gets it done when it comes to projectiles.
Photon Guy
New member
Well also, supposedly the .270 Winchester has a very flat trajectory. That's another thing Im looking for in the round.
It is flatter, but in the grand scheme of things, not much.
Using Federal Ammunition as a reference, with a 200 yard zero, a 130gr .270 @ 3200 FPS has about an inch and a half less drop at 300 yards than a 150gr .30-06 @ 2900 FPS. on edit: drop at 300 yards
At ranges most people have any business shooting at game, it is not enough to bother with.
Compare for yourself: https://www.federalpremium.com/products/rifle.aspx
Using Federal Ammunition as a reference, with a 200 yard zero, a 130gr .270 @ 3200 FPS has about an inch and a half less drop at 300 yards than a 150gr .30-06 @ 2900 FPS. on edit: drop at 300 yards
At ranges most people have any business shooting at game, it is not enough to bother with.
Compare for yourself: https://www.federalpremium.com/products/rifle.aspx
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handlerer2
New member
I don't question your desire for a high end rifle at all. You earned the money, your entitled to buy any rifle that pleases you. Besides the money's going to fine local cause, if the pic is the Dakota rifle you had mentioned.
Ever notice how some rifle owners are like new parents? Don't critisise my baby or my rifle, my baby may be ugly, but.
The notion that all rifles are Chevy's under the paint is, IMO, absurd. Yep, the main difference between a Cadillac and a Chevy are fit, finish, and add ons. When you compare it to a Mercedes or a BMW you find a real difference.
Any modern product Rem, Savage, Tikka, Browning offer a product that is reliable, accurate and affordable. I don't want any of them.
I don't hunt anymore, so I don't need to put put meat in the freezer. I have put it there with Rem, Marlin, Weatherby, and Ruger. All of them perfectly serviceable, and some quite nice. I now shoot for pleasure, I have either sold or given away all of my rifles except for three, two Weatherby's and a Cooper.
I won't say that I can shoot anything that I want, but I can shoot a Cooper MDL 22, 6.5x284, a varmint rifle that will kill a Moose. It is by far the most accurate rifle that I, or any of my crony's has ever seen. I was able to talk to the boy's that built and tested it. They gave me advice on dies, coal, powder, primers and brass. Even recommended that I try RL17, even though the test on my rifle was done with RL22. The price was $1700 at the Scheel's in Billings. This is no Chevy, believe me I have owned many.
I have always wanted a Dakota Traveler. I know I'll never have one unless I win the lottery, or finally make it on Jeopardy. I only envy you a little Photon.
You could reload for it and shoot it all you want.
Ever notice how some rifle owners are like new parents? Don't critisise my baby or my rifle, my baby may be ugly, but.
The notion that all rifles are Chevy's under the paint is, IMO, absurd. Yep, the main difference between a Cadillac and a Chevy are fit, finish, and add ons. When you compare it to a Mercedes or a BMW you find a real difference.
Any modern product Rem, Savage, Tikka, Browning offer a product that is reliable, accurate and affordable. I don't want any of them.
I don't hunt anymore, so I don't need to put put meat in the freezer. I have put it there with Rem, Marlin, Weatherby, and Ruger. All of them perfectly serviceable, and some quite nice. I now shoot for pleasure, I have either sold or given away all of my rifles except for three, two Weatherby's and a Cooper.
I won't say that I can shoot anything that I want, but I can shoot a Cooper MDL 22, 6.5x284, a varmint rifle that will kill a Moose. It is by far the most accurate rifle that I, or any of my crony's has ever seen. I was able to talk to the boy's that built and tested it. They gave me advice on dies, coal, powder, primers and brass. Even recommended that I try RL17, even though the test on my rifle was done with RL22. The price was $1700 at the Scheel's in Billings. This is no Chevy, believe me I have owned many.
I have always wanted a Dakota Traveler. I know I'll never have one unless I win the lottery, or finally make it on Jeopardy. I only envy you a little Photon.
You could reload for it and shoot it all you want.
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Photon Guy
New member
I don't question your desire for a high end rifle at all. You earned the money, your entitled to buy any rifle that pleases you. Besides the money's going to fine local cause, if the pic is the Dakota rifle you had mentioned.
Its an American Hunting Rifle in 600 Overkill.