TheBluesMan
Moderator Emeritus
I'm not real happy with the direction this thread is going.
Thin ice...
Thin ice...
So is Bush still approved as a good president, you tell me...
- Thread starter Epyon
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Esquire M Busterbury
Moderator
He's right. Lets just all take a deep breath, go back to our respective corners and try this again.
DonR101395
New member
I don't like everything this administration has done, but I've been happier overall the last six years than I was with the previous administration.
The "W" in Washington stands for worthless:barf: Does no honor or credit to the ancestor that the city is named after 
That ancester BTW was also a soldier who risked his life, his fortune and his sacred honor and he would have strongly disapproved of what is going on today. He STRONGLY advised against getting into entangled world alliances and fighting foreign wars.
That ancester BTW was also a soldier who risked his life, his fortune and his sacred honor and he would have strongly disapproved of what is going on today. He STRONGLY advised against getting into entangled world alliances and fighting foreign wars.Win the war at the cost of the people who pay for the war?
Good for you but that does not make a better man than anyone here. People of impeccable character can refuse to fight in wars and people of dispecable character can sign up to shoot foreigners. Thank you for putting your ass on the line but it doesn't add credence to your arguments.
I am sick and tired of the Bush bashing!!! He has been a great leader. Yes he has messed up on immigration and other issues, BUT NO MAN IS PERFECT! All liberals want to do is whine about the situation and not offer SOLUTIONS. Bush will be proven right by history. We might not see it right now but we will in the future. We will look back and see the good he did and how it helped things in the long run.
He has been a great leader. Yes he has messed up on immigration and other issues, BUT NO MAN IS PERFECT! All liberals want to do is whine about the situation and not offer SOLUTIONS. Bush will be proven right by history. We might not see it right now but we will in the future. We will look back and see the good he did and how it helped things in the long run.contender6030
New member
+1 for the UMP!!!!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
P.S. Thanks STLRN for defending our country!
P.S. Thanks STLRN for defending our country!
STLRN,
it is possible to fully support and respect the men in arms who are doing their duty and are in harms way while opposing the whole business that puts them in those positions.
Even a lot of the German soldiers in WW2 were good men who sincerely thought they were defending their country seeing Hitler and the Nazi party as a savior from the unfairness put on them by the British and the French after the WW1. Many of them despised the Nazis yet still saw France and England as the greater evil (at least in the beginning).
I respect Teddy Roosevelt and his Rough Riders for their charge at San Juan Hill. BUT I think the Spanish American war was little more than an effort to expand America as a "great" nation state around the world in places like the Phillippines.
I think the Great War (WW1) was madness that was soley a European problem and Woodrow Wilson was wrong in his policys and his getting us involved in it. BUT, I respect the efforts of the men who fought and died in the trenches of Europe.
For a more "at home" example on our own soil, I consider myself an UnReconstructed Southerner and by and large believe the South was right in it's efforts to defend her States. I see Lincoln as a tyrant. BUT, I respect good men like Joshua Chamberlain who were good soldiers and honorable men. Afterall, he respected our side even as he opposed them. Furthurmore, he, even as a Union soldier fighting on the front lines, disapproved of Lincoln's total war policy against Southern civilians.
(Everyone: These are my beliefs in regard to this particular war. If you don't agree, that's okay, but leave it for another thread. I am just using it to illustrate my point. In short: DON"T TURN THIS THREAD INTO AN OFF TOPIC REFIGHT OF THE CIVIL WAR)
I respect our country and Constitutional freedoms our forefathers risked their life and limb to protect and preserve (isn't that what soldiers even today swear an oath to defend?). I think it far more important to remember and preserve that than giving loyalty to the President and his unconstitutional policys.
I respect you for what you have done (and I DO mean that). But that doesn't mean I have to agree with the policy of the government.
it is possible to fully support and respect the men in arms who are doing their duty and are in harms way while opposing the whole business that puts them in those positions.
Even a lot of the German soldiers in WW2 were good men who sincerely thought they were defending their country seeing Hitler and the Nazi party as a savior from the unfairness put on them by the British and the French after the WW1. Many of them despised the Nazis yet still saw France and England as the greater evil (at least in the beginning).
I respect Teddy Roosevelt and his Rough Riders for their charge at San Juan Hill. BUT I think the Spanish American war was little more than an effort to expand America as a "great" nation state around the world in places like the Phillippines.
I think the Great War (WW1) was madness that was soley a European problem and Woodrow Wilson was wrong in his policys and his getting us involved in it. BUT, I respect the efforts of the men who fought and died in the trenches of Europe.
For a more "at home" example on our own soil, I consider myself an UnReconstructed Southerner and by and large believe the South was right in it's efforts to defend her States. I see Lincoln as a tyrant. BUT, I respect good men like Joshua Chamberlain who were good soldiers and honorable men. Afterall, he respected our side even as he opposed them. Furthurmore, he, even as a Union soldier fighting on the front lines, disapproved of Lincoln's total war policy against Southern civilians.
(Everyone: These are my beliefs in regard to this particular war. If you don't agree, that's okay, but leave it for another thread. I am just using it to illustrate my point. In short: DON"T TURN THIS THREAD INTO AN OFF TOPIC REFIGHT OF THE CIVIL WAR) I respect our country and Constitutional freedoms our forefathers risked their life and limb to protect and preserve (isn't that what soldiers even today swear an oath to defend?). I think it far more important to remember and preserve that than giving loyalty to the President and his unconstitutional policys.
I respect you for what you have done (and I DO mean that). But that doesn't mean I have to agree with the policy of the government.
I mostly agree with UMP, the Pres is too willing to spend money and illegal immigration is an abortion.
However the war on terror is going is going pretty well as wars go, of course there are always set backs in all wars. Also think they have been making us fight with both hands tied behind our backs, they are too concern with the enemies feelings.
However the war on terror is going is going pretty well as wars go, of course there are always set backs in all wars. Also think they have been making us fight with both hands tied behind our backs, they are too concern with the enemies feelings.
Amen STLRN. We are fighting with our hands behing our backs. We need to let the military do what they do best and that is fight a war. The big wigs in Washington need to shut up and quit telling the military how to fight. The US military is an elite fighting force that is more than capable of doing a good job. Just my .02
GoSlash27 I must disagree...
Is it not the job of the Supreme Court to review laws which are to be passed? The Patriot Act was passed in haste without judicial review. A lot of the bills being passed by both the Executive and Legislative branch are not being checked as necessary by the Judicial, what happened to checks and balances?
Epyon
Is it not the job of the Supreme Court to review laws which are to be passed? The Patriot Act was passed in haste without judicial review. A lot of the bills being passed by both the Executive and Legislative branch are not being checked as necessary by the Judicial, what happened to checks and balances?
Epyon
To STLRN...
Better to sound like a bunch of college kids, than a bunch of emo high schoolers right?(What's the matter you don't want your citizens to be educated?
) However, I do agree with the sentiment that one CAN support their troops yet despise the political practices of an unscrupulous government. Please explain, for those who are in support of the pro-war government, how are we in a better situation? Has anyone thought that the Iraqi insurgents are getting more violent because they don't want any occupying force telling them what kind of government and economy they should have? It's also stupid to think that you're going in to liberate a country yet are culturally insensitive, and have no long term plan on how to stabilize the region. Pakistan sits on the edge of a knife as a reluctant ally, with the possibility that Al Qaeda and the Taliban are now there, let's not forget that Pakistan is under a dictatorship of its own, and its people would much rather support their neighboring Afghans than a bunch of Americans, Musharaff is viewed with mixed feelings by his own people. Should there be a civil war in Pakistan, who's to say the terrorists couldn't get their hands on those nukes. Oh yeah, let's not forget Iran too also developing nukes. Well well, quite a great position Bushy boy has gotten us into, he only has two years left, once he leaves guess what, the next president regardless of party will be too busy cleaning up that mess. This is why Washington stated the importance of being a neutral country. STLRN, I do support the troops and understand the dangers they face, my uncles fought in the Bangladeshi Liberation war back in the 70's against Pakistan. However I also grew up to understand that corrupt politicians and their corporate sponsors will use whatever means necessary to exploit those who are willing to fight, under the guise of fighting for one's country. That is why I do believe that freedom requires vigilance, and to my understanding not enough people are vigilant.
Epyon
EDIT: UMP, believe me Bush bashing is tiring, but I also blame Congress for doing nothing in trying to stop the bills that are un-Constitutional from being passed. As for solutions? Withdraw from the Middle East, leave them to their own devices, forcing democracy is like smoking to stop cancer, start actively switching to bio-fuels, let Israel stand on its own two feet instead of giving in to their every whim. As for the current solution to Iraq? Let them build their own economy without competition from American contractors, let them build their own government as they see fit. Start leaving and let them know that if America is there to help them rebuild, and all they need to do is call on them. That would be more feasible than force feeding "democracy" and "capitalism" down their throats. If you ignore the cultures of the people you are trying to liberate, you do more harm than good.
Better to sound like a bunch of college kids, than a bunch of emo high schoolers right?(What's the matter you don't want your citizens to be educated?
) However, I do agree with the sentiment that one CAN support their troops yet despise the political practices of an unscrupulous government. Please explain, for those who are in support of the pro-war government, how are we in a better situation? Has anyone thought that the Iraqi insurgents are getting more violent because they don't want any occupying force telling them what kind of government and economy they should have? It's also stupid to think that you're going in to liberate a country yet are culturally insensitive, and have no long term plan on how to stabilize the region. Pakistan sits on the edge of a knife as a reluctant ally, with the possibility that Al Qaeda and the Taliban are now there, let's not forget that Pakistan is under a dictatorship of its own, and its people would much rather support their neighboring Afghans than a bunch of Americans, Musharaff is viewed with mixed feelings by his own people. Should there be a civil war in Pakistan, who's to say the terrorists couldn't get their hands on those nukes. Oh yeah, let's not forget Iran too also developing nukes. Well well, quite a great position Bushy boy has gotten us into, he only has two years left, once he leaves guess what, the next president regardless of party will be too busy cleaning up that mess. This is why Washington stated the importance of being a neutral country. STLRN, I do support the troops and understand the dangers they face, my uncles fought in the Bangladeshi Liberation war back in the 70's against Pakistan. However I also grew up to understand that corrupt politicians and their corporate sponsors will use whatever means necessary to exploit those who are willing to fight, under the guise of fighting for one's country. That is why I do believe that freedom requires vigilance, and to my understanding not enough people are vigilant.Epyon
EDIT: UMP, believe me Bush bashing is tiring, but I also blame Congress for doing nothing in trying to stop the bills that are un-Constitutional from being passed. As for solutions? Withdraw from the Middle East, leave them to their own devices, forcing democracy is like smoking to stop cancer, start actively switching to bio-fuels, let Israel stand on its own two feet instead of giving in to their every whim. As for the current solution to Iraq? Let them build their own economy without competition from American contractors, let them build their own government as they see fit. Start leaving and let them know that if America is there to help them rebuild, and all they need to do is call on them. That would be more feasible than force feeding "democracy" and "capitalism" down their throats. If you ignore the cultures of the people you are trying to liberate, you do more harm than good.
Just to set the record straight, and because I'm tired of the misinformation. India, Pakistan, and North Korea all developed their nuclear weapons under the watchful eyes of the Clinton admin. So that puts an end to that. By contrast Bush seems to be doing everything in his power to stop Iran from getting them. Of course all the while he has to deal with other countries fighting him every step of the way. Thats not a big surprise since they all had lucrative dealings with Saddam as well. The UN is a joke at best. They helped Saddam rip off billions from his own people, all the while pretending they actually do something good. I disagree with the President on many domestic issues, such as letting Ted Kennedy write anything , much less an education bill. Signing the Incumbent protection act, Immigration, and not holding the line on spending. That being said I cant find much fault with his handling of the war. After all he is the first President since his father who is actually willing to do something, anything about it.As for young people being fools for enlisting post 9-11, If you called my daughter that she'd swing on you. She just volunteered for deployment today. So maybe people who call our soldiers fools for doing what they do FOR US could try not to be so ungrateful.
Regarding immigration, what exactly could Bush do? Sign an executive order to round up and ship all illegals back? Ain't gonna happen. The ACLU and democrats would go nuts. Bush would be painted in Nazi black with videos of Jews being rounded up in the background.
CONGRESS writes the laws. All Bush does is sign or veto them. If you have a workable plan, send it to them and get them to implement it.
CONGRESS writes the laws. All Bush does is sign or veto them. If you have a workable plan, send it to them and get them to implement it.
Esquire M Busterbury
Moderator
I said "fooled', not "fools". I have several friends who went. I almost went. I wanted to go. I'm just about the only man in my family over the generations who hasn't put time in SOME branch of the military. I would have been good at it. It would have most likely had a great effect on my life. I felt it was my duty as a man, as an American, and as a member of a family like mine to put in my time as well. Unfortunately, I felt it was my greater duty to stand behind my convictions regarding the intent and integrity of our elected leaders and not help advance whatever it is that they were doing. But don't mistake my not going for being some weak kneed, terrorist loving, america hating, peace-mongering, liberal hippy beatnik. It's just that something about what's going on just really doesn't feel RIGHT. Got that big ruger?
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