So is Bush still approved as a good president, you tell me...

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Epyon

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Or is this considered media hogwash because people just don't seem to not want to agree with it? Link originally posted by Esquire M. Busterbury, but I felt it was worth opening a new thread about this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20060905/cm_thenation/20060918brecher

Your thoughts everyone? I think Congress is also at fault for letting him abuse power, along with the fact that the Supreme Court is just sleeping throughout this presidency and not trying him and his cabinet for Constitutional violations or human rights violations.


Epyon
 
The constitution is not a death pact, it isall well and good to live in theory. But when the rubber meets the road, the first importance to this nation is to destroy its enemies.
 
If the nation doesn't exsist than doesn't matter why or how it was founded. Win the war first, than you can go back to theory.
 
False dilemma...faulty argument. The refusal to curb essential freedoms does not equal signing a death pact.

If the nation doesn't exsist than doesn't matter why or how it was founded. Win the war first, than you can go back to theory.
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If the nation turns its founding principles into kindling, then it ceases to exist for all intents and purposes. The terrorists cannot destroy this nation...only Congress can do that, and they're busy getting a good start on the task.

Oh, and we will never see a declaration of victory in this "war". Any rights and principles you cede for the duration of it are essentially ceded forever.
 
Bush officials have not acknowledged that one of their real motives for gutting the War Crimes Act is to protect themselves from being prosecuted for their own crimes. But so far they have apparently offered only one other reason for tampering with the law: The existing law, especially the Geneva language prohibiting "outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment," is too vague to enforce. (Perhaps the Bush Administration should declare the US Constitution's ban on "cruel and unusual punishment" as too vague to enforce as well.)
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LOL!
Nice!:D
 
Goal of the terrorists is creation of a Global Caliphate, where every nation falls under the Sharia, where everyone is either Muslim or in dimitude status. Those that refuse to convert and submit to dimitude status would be killed.

The terrorist currently don't posses the ability to enact their vision, but if left unchecked they will at one point. That is problem many of you don't know the enemy and would rather debate theory than what is going on.
 
Oh, and we will never see a declaration of victory in this "war". Any rights and principles you cede for the duration of it are essentially ceded forever.
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+ a bunch. It'll be over when the corporate interests that profit from it have milked the cow dry, and not a moment sooner. That's the beauty of modern warfare, it's very profitable for those that will never visit the battlefield - a perfect enterprise.
 
So we should all just STFU and march with the brownshirts? Our Leaders know what's best for us!

Tell ya what, STLRN, you do what you want; but as far as I am concerned, to the extent this nation throws out the Bill of Rights, I am just as much an enemy to it as any hardcore Islamic fundamentalist.

Governments, especially modern governments, never surrender power they have taken. If the Federal Government tears up the Bill of Rights and Constitution in order to supposedly make it simpler to "destroy our enemies," what's left after that is as bad as sharia, maybe worse; for all their nastiness, the Islamic fundamentalists are at least low-tech; there's a chance of getting away from them, of fighting back. But the technological resources available to the Federal government, unchecked, can and will be used to create a surveillance state from which there is no escape.

I'm not too fretful over muddle-headed mujahadeen, we can shoot 'em one by one as they step over the border. "A rifle behind every blade of grass," as somebody said; they're an enemy all of us can hate. The Feds, on the other hand, they've got way too many happy little helpers cheering them on. Will you still like them so well after President Hillary gets elected?
 
Roberta X...

Well said with your statements...
"A rifle behind every blade of grass,"
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Was said by one of the generals of Imperialist Japan during World War 2, and he's damn right if anyone dared invade this nation. STLRN, we as a nation are already establish, considering terrorists are not just America's problem, and that other countries are also fighting it there's even less reason to withold our rights as citizens of this country. Would I rather risk being overrun by religious fanatics? Or corporate fascists? Truth be told, none of the above. Well, seeing as the corporate fascist is here and close to us, and permates our society I'd say this is a much more severe problem domestically, left unchecked it WILL become a police state, and fear will be the order of the day. (Oh wait, already happening slowly look at how we seem to need a new enemy for America every few years.) As for terrorism abroad, yes that is also a problem, but we don't have to fight it alone. America's policy makers have, for too long, had the mentality of "us vs. the world, screw the rest of the world." we fail to realize we're very much a part of it whether we like it or not, so we better start cleaning up our foreign relations policy if we really want to curb international terrorism.


Epyon
 
You guys are delusional if you think we are fighting a standing army who can easily be IDed and shot as they cross the boarder. What happens when the do acquire special weapons? Will you be able to shoot down the missiles? Or will you be able gun down the Germs?

Lets face it you are your family will be dead because of your principals.
 
To Ausserordeutlich...

That once was true, not anymore, we have progressed since then, but then to crawl back into that kind of caveman thinking clearly shows when our leaders think it's okay to torture detainees, keep them indefinately with no due process, and violate international law, as well as strip our most important set of laws this nation has. Quite a precarious situation we're in are we not? Only time will tell the outcome.


Epyon
 
Lets face it you are your family will be dead because of your principals.
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My principles make me who I am. I'd rather have them shot out from underneath me than put a bullet in them myself.

You must recognize that there are principles that are non-negotiable...otherwise you'd follow the Jihadist call to "convert or die", right? The only difference between us is where we draw the line, not that we draw one at all.

The "Founding Principles" held that African-Americans were 3/5 human and that women couldn't vote.
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In all fairness, that's a mischaracterization. Slaves were counted as 3/5 of a person for representation purposes in Congress. The Southerners actually wanted their slaves to count as a full person because it would have increased Southern representation in Congress, and the 3/5 figure was a compromise. It had nothing to do with slaves counting as "3/5 human".

Also, as progressive as the Founding Fathers were, there was no place on Earth that had universal suffrage in the late 18th Century, so that was hardly an unusual provision. (Actually, most places had no suffrage at all, since the vast majority of realms in 1790 were still monarchies advancing the "divine right of kings".)
 
Strln, I'm afraid you're mistaken in your assesment of all the 'terrorist's' goals.
Goal of the terrorists is creation of a Global Caliphate, where every nation falls under the Sharia, where everyone is either Muslim or in dimitude status. Those that refuse to convert and submit to dimitude status would be killed.
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I recently caught a video clip of the end of the 9/11 commission's testimony in congress, when someone finally, brilliantly asked "Well why did it happen" to some special agents testifying. Can you guess why we were attacked, according the agent's response? Support of Israel and support of 'repressive regimes'. Now why oh why would that be omitted from the book and most news reporting?

The terrorist currently don't posses the ability to enact their vision, but if left unchecked they will at one point. That is problem many of you don't know the enemy and would rather debate theory than what is going on.
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So I guess by this logic we'd better get off our asses and eradicate the world, lest they harm us? And no, we hate debating theory almost as much as going to war with the wrong people for the wrong reasons.



We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men: George Orwell
 
No because I have been there fighting them.

Let's face it better men than you allow you to have your silly notions.
 
There will always be greater and lesser men than yourself. But as long as you know FOR SURE that this is a war of pre-emption and not of imperialism...

So when do you think we'll declare victory and leave the field?
 
How about this...

Lets face it, better men than you have been fooled into battle for lesser reasons. And yes, I think that those who joined after 9/11 to 'get those responsible' and ended up in Iraq have been fooled. I'm sure that there are plenty who feel a little burned. But then again, maybe they all just swell with pride in having made the world a safer place like you so obviously do. March on proud soldier, let us know how the weather in Iran is...
 
Let's face it better men than you allow you to have your silly notions.
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I wonder whether you'd say that to my face if we were both sitting next to each other in Rich's living room.

Nobody "allows" me to have my notions, silly or otherwise, least of all not some anonymous keyboard operator hiding behind an anonymous handle on the Internet. Disavow yourself of that notion, please.
 
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