Walt Sherrill
New member
bac1023 said:
Interesting. That's the first time I've seen that (original) version of the Beretta 92. Wonder why Beretta moved it?
So I just picked up a Star Megastar in 10mm...
- Thread starter loscricklestick
- Start date
Interesting. That's the first time I've seen that (original) version of the Beretta 92. Wonder why Beretta moved it?
Well, but the market for the 10mm has hardly been static since 1983. Hugely popular early, then bankruptcy for Dornaus & Dixon, then revived in 1987 by Colt's Delta Elite, then peaking with its adoption by the FBI, then seemingly "dead" after the arrival of the .40S&W.
And you know the rest, ... thru most of the '90s the 10mm became a "dead" - or at least a dormant and watered-down cartridge - until Glock introduced the G29/G30 compacts, S&W brought back its 4" 610 wheelie, and in the early 2000s Texas Ammo Company became the first so-called "boutique" (i.e., family-owned) ammo-maker to start marketing full-throttle 10mm ammo, using XTPs and some of the then-newer bullets (Gold Dots). I still recall reading the write-up on TAC's line of full-spec 10mm ammo in one of the gun rags. TAC preceded DT, BB, etc., by at least 2 or 3 years. And somewhere in there Tanfoglio's 10mm Witnesses arrived (like 'me or hate 'em).
And today, aside from Sig's 4 10mm models, we have the new 10mm long-slide Glock .40 on the way. The Turkish Sars K2 is shown as a 10mm model, although EAA doesn't yet import it; supposedly GrandPower is developing a 10mm model; and depending on how you read the tea leaves in the most recent (Jan.2015) announcement by Vltor's CEO on the "improved" Bren Ten project, they still intend to produce the "Legacy" model, possibly to be seen in 2016.
Not to mention Federal, hardly a boutique ammo company, which gave us the first downloaded 10mm load for the FBI's use in 1989, came out last year with a new (and mostly) full-spec 180gn trophy-bonded load. In fact, more ammo companies are making more varieties of 10mm ammo - up and down the huge energy curve - than at any time since Norma first introduced this cartridge.
So, when you take the long view on the history of the 10mm AUTO, I'd say its resurgence is continuing, maybe even at a significantly increased pace. My advice would be to stay optimistic. My sense of it (and I go back to the late '80s w/ this cartridge) is that the 10mm's popularity among American handgun buyers generally is growing - even among those for whom the 10mm isn't their initial or preferred round of choice. Shooters seem to want at least one 10mm pistol in their collection. And personal subjectivity aside, there must be a market-based reason that the gun and ammo companies are detecting in what is unquestionably a "niche" cartridge.
Besides, who knows what R&D into other makes of 10mm pistols by other gun makers the new Sigs and the new G40 will spur? - those who've discontinued previous models, perhaps, or those who may have one in development "on the backburner," now to be moved to the front?
A "10mm" 97B from CZ?
Who knows?
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I have two Stars in the cabinet and I am a fan. They don't seem to be worth much out there, but I don't think their deflated values will last forever. They made great guns and are worth much more than people are willing to pay for them. In most cases their guns were seriously overbuilt, a common practice in gunmaking yesteryear.
Perhaps because, as the FBI itself put it decades ago when it chose the 10mm AUTO, all the other (then-)existing cartridges suitable for LE use in an autoloader - i.e., 9mm and .45acp - were tapped out in terms of their ballistic potential.
But the 10mm's ballistic potential was virtually unknown in the mid-80s, other than it seemed to possess a huge energy curve within which to create designer loads for different purposes or uses - downloaded ammo for a pistol, uploaded ammo for an entry carbine, such as the 10mm HK subguns (3-rd burst carbines, actually) the FBI carried in their vehicles. And, in fact, Federal did make 2 different loads for the Bureau: the 180gn FBI-Lite @ 850fps, and the slightly warmer 190gn load with a bonded JHP at or near 1050fps.
There was also, back then, the untapped potential of the 10mm as a handgun hunting cartridge on an auto-platform, back when 99.9% of handgun hunters were using magnum wheelguns.
In a similar vein, today's pistol market is saturated with 9mm, .40 and .45 guns, some .357Sigs (mainly Glocks), while other makes & platforms for viable 10mm pistols that aren't Glocks, 1911s, or exactly one CZ-type (Tanfoglio's), still wait to be explored.
IOW, maybe the gun industry is sensing that the pistol market has become sort of "bored," if you will, with the standard vanilla calibers. And whatever else you might call the 10mm, it ain't a vanilla cartridge in its undiluted form. It only becomes that if you try to turn it into an elongated .40.
That, and after 30 years of experience with the 10mm, gunmakers (or some of them at least) are maybe feeling more confident about being able to engineer a durable and reliable pistol of reasonable size and weight to house what was intended to be a true "magnum power" auto cartridge.
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I guess "copy" was the wrong word. I did mean to suggest that it appeared to be based on the Bren Ten. Slide in frame rail, beefy, double stack 10mm.
Why is 10mm becoming more popular? I think 2 things contribute. 9mm hot loads have closed the gap with 40 S&W and since the .40 S&W never quite killed off the ten mm it has hung around long enough to be recognized as the most powerful semi-auto round that is commonly available.
Why is 10mm becoming more popular? I think 2 things contribute. 9mm hot loads have closed the gap with 40 S&W and since the .40 S&W never quite killed off the ten mm it has hung around long enough to be recognized as the most powerful semi-auto round that is commonly available.
Walt Sherrill
New member
DA/SA Fan said:
And the Bren Ten was based, in part, on the earlier CZ-75 design. There is not much new under the sun...
The Bren Ten is a particular example of a firearm whose inflated "value" pretty much annoys me endlessly.
Here you have a project that sounded great and made a lot of people salivate (for good reason) but it showcased irrational ineptitude to the point of fraud (arguably) and some of the guns aren't even SAFE to shoot.
For sure, they are historically significant and I wouldn't pretend to argue otherwise. But "bittersweet" doesn't even describe them. Bitter disappointment may not be the proper term but it's more accurate.
Vltor's ridiculous follies are eerily appropriate.
Here you have a project that sounded great and made a lot of people salivate (for good reason) but it showcased irrational ineptitude to the point of fraud (arguably) and some of the guns aren't even SAFE to shoot.
For sure, they are historically significant and I wouldn't pretend to argue otherwise. But "bittersweet" doesn't even describe them. Bitter disappointment may not be the proper term but it's more accurate.
Vltor's ridiculous follies are eerily appropriate.
llama made a 92 clone in the 90's. So did Vektor/Denel/Zeederberg of South Africa.
The llama was about as good as all llamas made before it, which is to say, don't waste time trying to hunt one down. The Vektor was equal to Beretta in quality.
The Earlier Taurus clones were actually pretty decent, but I'd just hold out for a real beretta. The old 92 "police special" are very reasonable used. And you can get Italian police surplus 92S's with beautiful blueing on them for about $300
I had one of those back in my 10mm days.
Also had a Bren 10 Special forces Dark, SW 1006, 1066, 1076, the Glocks and a few others.
The Megastar was a beast of a gun, only my Desert Eagle was a bigger beast.
Its an excellent gun, solid as a rock, came in 45 and 10mm. I'm sure someone mentioned the Spanish company Star ( Bonifacio Echeverria, S.A.) made great products but is no longer in business. Loved my Star Firestar in 45!
The biggest issue with the Megastar's is magazines. Hard to find and expensive if you do.
If you see a mag...buy the mag!
Shot the older hot 10mm ammo quite well. Wasn't my favorite 10mm gun (SW 1066 and Glock 29 actually got carried for CCW) but was the one everyone wanted to hold and shoot.
Enjoy that gun is a classic!
Also had a Bren 10 Special forces Dark, SW 1006, 1066, 1076, the Glocks and a few others.
The Megastar was a beast of a gun, only my Desert Eagle was a bigger beast.
Its an excellent gun, solid as a rock, came in 45 and 10mm. I'm sure someone mentioned the Spanish company Star ( Bonifacio Echeverria, S.A.) made great products but is no longer in business. Loved my Star Firestar in 45!
The biggest issue with the Megastar's is magazines. Hard to find and expensive if you do.
If you see a mag...buy the mag!
Shot the older hot 10mm ammo quite well. Wasn't my favorite 10mm gun (SW 1066 and Glock 29 actually got carried for CCW) but was the one everyone wanted to hold and shoot.
Enjoy that gun is a classic!
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