The one good thing I have found in S&W autos is that they make most other major brands look so good by comparison. If I may paraphrase Beavis and Butthead, "You gotta have stuff that sucks to have stuff thats cool." My first auto was a 659. POS. I was a revolver guy for a long time after that fiasco. (I think S&W revolvers are unrivaled.) Then I got a hold of a Kimber and later a Glock and would say I'm now an autoloading kinda guy, with Kimbers, Glocks, SIGs, Berettas, Springfields, Wilson.
Smith & Wesson Semi-autos Survey
- Thread starter Quantum Singularity
- Start date
- Status
Bought a 3913TSW last November.What a waste of my money.POI & POA were in different time zones.Went thru 500 rounds,thinking I was the problem.Had friend try pistol, same result.Called S&W and they said return it.Got it back with new barrel,slide,etc.Prints a lot better now, but is way short of my Glock 19.
The second sa I owned was a 1998 S&W 40 cal. model 410. I know that this was considered a "value-line" model but it was a horrible gun. I got it NIB and if you shook it side to side a little, you could hear the barrel clanking back and forth. I asked them about fitting it up a little better but was told that it was as good as it got. There was no bearing to hold the barrel tightly enough. The accuracy of this gun, then, was terrible. I even had my brother-in-law who is a champion indoor shooter try it and he could barely hit the target at 75' while he tore the center out of it with his pistols. The da and sa was ok but the fit and finish was so sloppy that anything beyond 15' would be safe running away in a straight line. So, I returned it and ended up with a Para Ordnance 13-45 and have never been happier. Of course, just about anything would have been better.
Rome
Rome
parabellum
New member
Well, you've hit upon an effective technique, G98. The lighting is diffuse and even. Perfect for posting photos of object on the internet. I know a couple of Art Institutes where you might be able to teach your "plonk" technique. (Tell 'em it's "German". They eat that kind of thing up! 
) Some of these students get so revved up about utilizing some fancy composition or lighting scheme that you look at the photos and say "What the hell is this?".
) Some of these students get so revved up about utilizing some fancy composition or lighting scheme that you look at the photos and say "What the hell is this?".My experience with S&W aemiautos is limited to my duty weapon (4506-1) and handling others at gun stores, ranges and limited shooting of same. To report:
My 4506 is utterly reliable and reasonably accurate (plenty accurate enough for real-world tactical use, probably not for pistol competitions), but it has the ergonomics of a WWI era tank. The gun is a honkin big hand cannon and it just feels cumbersome. It shares the same design 'feature' of most S&W semiautos (esp. single stacks), a grip that was designed by sadists for sadists...narrow as can be with an utterly straight back. This is somewhat alleviated by replacing the factory grips with Hogues, but not completely. Recoil is reasonably mild (it IS a .45, but its also a large .45), but follow-up shot controlability is not all that great...likely a factor of the less than ideal grip and clumsy balance of the gun.
CAVEATS: I am biased. As much as I want to love this gun, I just can't bring myself to do it. Also, reliability isn't exactly 'straight out of the box.' My PD has a team of armorers and gunsmiths to tinker with these puppies, and they go over them with a fine tooth comb every 4 months.
I would never buy one, pre- or post sellout. I think they quit making them, anyway.
Mike
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
My 4506 is utterly reliable and reasonably accurate (plenty accurate enough for real-world tactical use, probably not for pistol competitions), but it has the ergonomics of a WWI era tank. The gun is a honkin big hand cannon and it just feels cumbersome. It shares the same design 'feature' of most S&W semiautos (esp. single stacks), a grip that was designed by sadists for sadists...narrow as can be with an utterly straight back. This is somewhat alleviated by replacing the factory grips with Hogues, but not completely. Recoil is reasonably mild (it IS a .45, but its also a large .45), but follow-up shot controlability is not all that great...likely a factor of the less than ideal grip and clumsy balance of the gun.
CAVEATS: I am biased. As much as I want to love this gun, I just can't bring myself to do it. Also, reliability isn't exactly 'straight out of the box.' My PD has a team of armorers and gunsmiths to tinker with these puppies, and they go over them with a fine tooth comb every 4 months.
I would never buy one, pre- or post sellout. I think they quit making them, anyway.
Mike
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by buzz_knox: ... We recently took Stressfire (the shooting portion of LFI-1) and his 5906 went through over 800 rounds without a problem, unlike some Glocks and custom 1911s on the line.[/quote]In a life & death situation, buzz's statement says a lot.
AndABeer, I own a 659 -- bought it new in the early 1980's. I once put a few of hundred rounds though it and didn't get around to cleaning it for a couple of years because of complications (father's death, birth of new baby, selling home & moving across country, etc.). Anyway ... not to get into a side topic as this story could easily fill up it's own thread, I took this uncleaned (from a couple of years ago), un-oiled gun to the range and put another few hundred rounds through it without a single jam, stoppage or failure to fire.
I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with your's as I truly believe that you are missing out on a good thing (especially now that pre-agreement S&W pistols become rare). Here's one (out of several) private e-mail that I've received about S&W pistols from people who tried them and realized what they were missing ... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Hey Fud thanks the response back. I cannot believe the recoil is a piece of cake. I have been and always shoot one handed and i was a little skeptical about this one. I am learning to use two hands. I shot a 44 mountain gun last week and that recoils more than the 4513, i think the 4513 is a fun gun to shoot.
I picked up two 3913tsw one is the old syle without the rail and one with the rail. I read your comment on try to get the older style, so i got both. They are very nice to shoot. I traded a Glock in for the 3913tsw. glocks cannot touch the quality of the smiths. I was deceived for 1 year about them. What i did with the 3913 at the range the first time out took me six months to accomplish with the 26 and 19. Plus there isn't any saftey on the Glocks! I am sold on Smith's, not the Company but their quality pistols. This is just my opinion and expierence with the glocks. If i put that on the TFL i probabably would need an abestos suit. I did a six year tour in the Marines in 60 to 66. Fired the 45 and hated it! Now i love it. I do not understand. Thanks for all your post on TFL, Weapon Fourum, and the Smith Forum. I value your expierence and knowledge on handguns.[/quote]I have a number of these and they all pretty much say the same thing ... Shooters, who for one reason or another had a negative opinion of S&W pistols and then tried them and loved them. Regards, FUD.
[This message has been edited by FUD (edited September 14, 2000).]
AndABeer, I own a 659 -- bought it new in the early 1980's. I once put a few of hundred rounds though it and didn't get around to cleaning it for a couple of years because of complications (father's death, birth of new baby, selling home & moving across country, etc.). Anyway ... not to get into a side topic as this story could easily fill up it's own thread, I took this uncleaned (from a couple of years ago), un-oiled gun to the range and put another few hundred rounds through it without a single jam, stoppage or failure to fire.
I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with your's as I truly believe that you are missing out on a good thing (especially now that pre-agreement S&W pistols become rare). Here's one (out of several) private e-mail that I've received about S&W pistols from people who tried them and realized what they were missing ... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Hey Fud thanks the response back. I cannot believe the recoil is a piece of cake. I have been and always shoot one handed and i was a little skeptical about this one. I am learning to use two hands. I shot a 44 mountain gun last week and that recoils more than the 4513, i think the 4513 is a fun gun to shoot.
I picked up two 3913tsw one is the old syle without the rail and one with the rail. I read your comment on try to get the older style, so i got both. They are very nice to shoot. I traded a Glock in for the 3913tsw. glocks cannot touch the quality of the smiths. I was deceived for 1 year about them. What i did with the 3913 at the range the first time out took me six months to accomplish with the 26 and 19. Plus there isn't any saftey on the Glocks! I am sold on Smith's, not the Company but their quality pistols. This is just my opinion and expierence with the glocks. If i put that on the TFL i probabably would need an abestos suit. I did a six year tour in the Marines in 60 to 66. Fired the 45 and hated it! Now i love it. I do not understand. Thanks for all your post on TFL, Weapon Fourum, and the Smith Forum. I value your expierence and knowledge on handguns.[/quote]I have a number of these and they all pretty much say the same thing ... Shooters, who for one reason or another had a negative opinion of S&W pistols and then tried them and loved them. Regards, FUD.
[This message has been edited by FUD (edited September 14, 2000).]
3914-excellent size and shape for concealed carry, has always been reliable but I don't shoot much junky ammo out of it. Actions by T did a trigger/spring job that made the action quite nice. Nine pound DA, five SA. 5904-carried and shot very regulary for 12 years. Faultlessly reliable. In the last o year, the wear must have taken it's toll, broke an ejector, sideplate in two different incidents, but kept shooting (after a fashion) in both. The action is the envy of any Smith owner who handles it, but it hasn't been worked on, it just slicked up with continued shooting.
4563 TSW-new gun, little experience with it, but informal range time makes me think it may be VERY accurate. Excellent "feel."
I have seen LOTS of S&W's shot, as they are my agency issue gun before Glocks, etc. were allowed. Over all, the only weakness I have seen is that an extractor may break. Seems like if you have a gun that breaks extractors, it will do it again. Makes me wonder if the slot it is dropped in is machined crooked in that particular weapon. I haven't seen but a couple of these, would call them lemons. Smiths are less picky than some other brands about range quality reloads, so I consider them very reliable. I have seen many, many rounds from various guns go down range, and prefer the Smith to any. Reliability is one reason, ergonomics is another, but that is obviously personal. Haven't seen one that was not plenty accrate, have seen shooters try to blame the gun until the instructor shows them otherwise. I find that if someone doesn't like the S&W, it is usually because of features, not feel. I had a CS45 for a short time, it felt like a brick with Hogue grips, and I swapped it off.
[This message has been edited by Jhp147 (edited September 14, 2000).]
4563 TSW-new gun, little experience with it, but informal range time makes me think it may be VERY accurate. Excellent "feel."
I have seen LOTS of S&W's shot, as they are my agency issue gun before Glocks, etc. were allowed. Over all, the only weakness I have seen is that an extractor may break. Seems like if you have a gun that breaks extractors, it will do it again. Makes me wonder if the slot it is dropped in is machined crooked in that particular weapon. I haven't seen but a couple of these, would call them lemons. Smiths are less picky than some other brands about range quality reloads, so I consider them very reliable. I have seen many, many rounds from various guns go down range, and prefer the Smith to any. Reliability is one reason, ergonomics is another, but that is obviously personal. Haven't seen one that was not plenty accrate, have seen shooters try to blame the gun until the instructor shows them otherwise. I find that if someone doesn't like the S&W, it is usually because of features, not feel. I had a CS45 for a short time, it felt like a brick with Hogue grips, and I swapped it off.
[This message has been edited by Jhp147 (edited September 14, 2000).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FUD:
AndABeer, I own a 659 -- bought it new in the early 1980's. I once put a few of hundred rounds though it and didn't get around to cleaning it for a couple of years because of complications (father's death, birth of new baby, selling home & moving across country, etc.). Anyway ... not to get into a side topic as this story could easily fill up it's own thread, I took this uncleaned (from a couple of years ago), un-oiled gun to the range and put another few hundred rounds through it without a single jam, stoppage or failure to fire.
I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with your's as I truly believe that you are missing out on a good thing (especially now that pre-agreement S&W pistols become rare). Here's one (out of several) private e-mail that I've received about S&W pistols from people who tried them and realized what they were missing ...
Shooters, who for one reason or another had a negative opinion of S&W pistols and then tried them and loved them. Regards, FUD.
[/quote]
As I said the 659 was my first autoloader. Could not shoot it well, figured it was me. Bought a 6" GP100. Tackdriver. So being new to shooting back then (1988), figured revolvers were my thing. Bought a Kimber when they first came out (94?). Tackdriver. OK maybe autos need another chance. Bought a 6946, couldn't hit squat. Year later, bought a 5906, couldn't hit squat. Maybe the S&W auto frame just doesn't fit my hand well. Dunno, but I have learned enough from my experiences to know that S&W autos are not for me.
Let me amend this post to state that at a outdoor show a year ago, I shot a 945 and was very very impressed, but it is not the standard S&W fare, so I am not including it in my overall opinion of their autos.
[This message has been edited by AndABeer (edited September 14, 2000).]
AndABeer, I own a 659 -- bought it new in the early 1980's. I once put a few of hundred rounds though it and didn't get around to cleaning it for a couple of years because of complications (father's death, birth of new baby, selling home & moving across country, etc.). Anyway ... not to get into a side topic as this story could easily fill up it's own thread, I took this uncleaned (from a couple of years ago), un-oiled gun to the range and put another few hundred rounds through it without a single jam, stoppage or failure to fire.
I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with your's as I truly believe that you are missing out on a good thing (especially now that pre-agreement S&W pistols become rare). Here's one (out of several) private e-mail that I've received about S&W pistols from people who tried them and realized what they were missing ...
Shooters, who for one reason or another had a negative opinion of S&W pistols and then tried them and loved them. Regards, FUD.
[/quote]
As I said the 659 was my first autoloader. Could not shoot it well, figured it was me. Bought a 6" GP100. Tackdriver. So being new to shooting back then (1988), figured revolvers were my thing. Bought a Kimber when they first came out (94?). Tackdriver. OK maybe autos need another chance. Bought a 6946, couldn't hit squat. Year later, bought a 5906, couldn't hit squat. Maybe the S&W auto frame just doesn't fit my hand well. Dunno, but I have learned enough from my experiences to know that S&W autos are not for me.
Let me amend this post to state that at a outdoor show a year ago, I shot a 945 and was very very impressed, but it is not the standard S&W fare, so I am not including it in my overall opinion of their autos.
[This message has been edited by AndABeer (edited September 14, 2000).]
S&W makes more different types of pistols than anyone else in the world in Large, Mid-size & Compact models (the only thing missing is a sub-compact model but under the terms of the agreement, they are now barred from creating one that small) ...
... in all different calibers. Most guns can be purchased in either all stainless steel, alloy or regular carbon steel. Additionally, most models come in either traditional DA/SA or DAO flavors.
My personal experience has been with the traditional DA/SA models made out of either alloy or all stell.
... in all different calibers. Most guns can be purchased in either all stainless steel, alloy or regular carbon steel. Additionally, most models come in either traditional DA/SA or DAO flavors.
My personal experience has been with the traditional DA/SA models made out of either alloy or all stell.
For 8 years my PD issued and carried 5906 pistols. Only about 300+ rounds of factory federal ammo, a year, through them. Our Smiths were serviced by a Smith and Wesson "certified" armorer yearly. Year 8, seven major parts breakdowns (7 guns down) out of 30 pistols. We lost total confidence in the 5906 reliability. We upgraded to Glock 23's and love them.
The Plainsman
New member
Well, here's my two cents worth.
I'm the not-so-proud owner of an S&W model 908 9mm (bought pre-sellout) and I've been satisfied with it. Although Kansas doesn't have CCW (keep hoping), this would make a nice CCW gun. It's as accurate as I am and shoots pretty nice. I've added the Hogue universal grip which helps. This is my only S&W auto. I have several S&W oldie revolvers, all of which are fine guns.
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If "the people" in the 1st, 4th, 9th & 10th amendments, means "the people", why do some folks think "the people" in the 2nd amendment means "the state"?
I'm the not-so-proud owner of an S&W model 908 9mm (bought pre-sellout) and I've been satisfied with it. Although Kansas doesn't have CCW (keep hoping), this would make a nice CCW gun. It's as accurate as I am and shoots pretty nice. I've added the Hogue universal grip which helps. This is my only S&W auto. I have several S&W oldie revolvers, all of which are fine guns.
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If "the people" in the 1st, 4th, 9th & 10th amendments, means "the people", why do some folks think "the people" in the 2nd amendment means "the state"?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The Plainsman: If "the people" in the 1st, 4th, 9th & 10th amendments, means "the people", why do some folks think "the people" in the 2nd amendment means "the state"?[/quote]Love your signature block. I would really like to see the anti's explain this one away.
Here's my experiences:
(2) 4506s-First would NOT cycle with any +P ammo, second worked fine. Both were very accurate and comfortable to shoot, but with very bad DA triggers.
(5) 4516s-As you can tell, I very much wanted to like this pistol, and I kept getting great deals on it. All of them were reliable, but through all five, I never found one that was accurate and both their DA and SA trigger pulls sucked.
(1) 1066-Best Smith pistol I ever owned. 100% reliable, acceptable DA and SA triggers and very comfortable to shoot even with full house 10mm loads. Regret ever getting rid of it. (It was part of the trade for my HK91 though, so I don't regret it THAT much.)
(1) 411-Lousy trigger pull, unacceptable accuracy, bad sights.
(1) 469-Okay trigger, acceptable accuracy, reliable. (Was my wife's first carry gun.)
(2) 4506s-First would NOT cycle with any +P ammo, second worked fine. Both were very accurate and comfortable to shoot, but with very bad DA triggers.
(5) 4516s-As you can tell, I very much wanted to like this pistol, and I kept getting great deals on it.
All of them were reliable, but through all five, I never found one that was accurate and both their DA and SA trigger pulls sucked.(1) 1066-Best Smith pistol I ever owned. 100% reliable, acceptable DA and SA triggers and very comfortable to shoot even with full house 10mm loads. Regret ever getting rid of it. (It was part of the trade for my HK91 though, so I don't regret it THAT much.)
(1) 411-Lousy trigger pull, unacceptable accuracy, bad sights.
(1) 469-Okay trigger, acceptable accuracy, reliable. (Was my wife's first carry gun.)
Owned an "enhanced" Sigma in .40 auto for a very short time. When it did fire, it was a tack driver. It felt really good in the had too. I do have to stree "when it fired". It jammed every three rounds, even after two trips to the factory, and dealing with snobby customer service reps on the phone. I could not get rid of it quickly enough.
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"Out here, due process is a bullet"
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"Out here, due process is a bullet"
riddleofsteel
New member
i have a S&W 4006 that i know the old hands here have heard me talk about before. it started life as a first edition 4006. it was one of the first .40 autos in my area.
i choose it after handling perhaps 40 to 50 pistols at every gun shop in an 80 mile radius of my town. i was looking for a service size pistol in the then new .40 S&W caliber. weight did not matter as CCW was just a wet dream to us in N.C. then. the first holster i bought for it was just to carry it around the farm.
at first the gun was a jam-o-matic. i experienced with it every type of stoppage know to man except a kaboom. it did, however, make me an expert at clearing jams. i was shooting it with a firend and he pointed out that i was having trouble shooting 2 eleven round mags without some intervention on my part. but i loved, and still do, the feel of that gun. the grip fits my hand and the controls are laid out perfect for me.
i sent the pistol to Cylinder and Slide. it was my first experience with a custom shop or custom pistol. when it came back i could not induce it to malfunction!! it shoots any and everything i feed it. the only time it has failed since is when i tried to shoot it with a newly aquired used mag with a worn out mag spring. the trigger is perfect for general use. once you take up the slack it breaks like a fine 1911. double action it is as smooth as an old Python.
it is a jewel and as such i have polished it as much as possible. it has a Cylinder and Slide reliability package and combat trigger job, coco bolo Houge checkered grips with a small patch of skateboard tape on the back strap portion, Ed Brown over size decocker/safety levers, Ed Brown oversize mag release button and a Clymer Arms (now Springco) recoil reducing stainless guide rod. the recoil spring is 10% over power as is all my mag springs. i change all springs on a regular basis with quailty Wolff springs.
as a longtime user of S&W products i almost cried when the Brits bought the company. i was physically sick the night they signed the roll over agreement. but i STILL LOVE THAT GUN!!
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.
Let he that hath no sword sell his garment and buy one. Luke 22-36
They all hold swords, being expert in war: every man hath his sword upon his thigh because of fear in the night. Song of Solomon 3-8
The man that can keep his head and aims carefully when the situation has gone bad and lead is flying usually wins the fight.
i choose it after handling perhaps 40 to 50 pistols at every gun shop in an 80 mile radius of my town. i was looking for a service size pistol in the then new .40 S&W caliber. weight did not matter as CCW was just a wet dream to us in N.C. then. the first holster i bought for it was just to carry it around the farm.
at first the gun was a jam-o-matic. i experienced with it every type of stoppage know to man except a kaboom. it did, however, make me an expert at clearing jams. i was shooting it with a firend and he pointed out that i was having trouble shooting 2 eleven round mags without some intervention on my part. but i loved, and still do, the feel of that gun. the grip fits my hand and the controls are laid out perfect for me.
i sent the pistol to Cylinder and Slide. it was my first experience with a custom shop or custom pistol. when it came back i could not induce it to malfunction!! it shoots any and everything i feed it. the only time it has failed since is when i tried to shoot it with a newly aquired used mag with a worn out mag spring. the trigger is perfect for general use. once you take up the slack it breaks like a fine 1911. double action it is as smooth as an old Python.
it is a jewel and as such i have polished it as much as possible. it has a Cylinder and Slide reliability package and combat trigger job, coco bolo Houge checkered grips with a small patch of skateboard tape on the back strap portion, Ed Brown over size decocker/safety levers, Ed Brown oversize mag release button and a Clymer Arms (now Springco) recoil reducing stainless guide rod. the recoil spring is 10% over power as is all my mag springs. i change all springs on a regular basis with quailty Wolff springs.
as a longtime user of S&W products i almost cried when the Brits bought the company. i was physically sick the night they signed the roll over agreement. but i STILL LOVE THAT GUN!!
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.
Let he that hath no sword sell his garment and buy one. Luke 22-36
They all hold swords, being expert in war: every man hath his sword upon his thigh because of fear in the night. Song of Solomon 3-8
The man that can keep his head and aims carefully when the situation has gone bad and lead is flying usually wins the fight.
I have 2 S&W pistols: a 945 (.45 ACP) made in 1999 and a Model 41 (.22 LR) made in 1969. They're my 2 favorite guns: reliable, durable and very, very accurate. Triggers on both are around 4 lbs +/-. Of course, they're both SA only, so I don't know about this DA/SA stuff in S&W pistols. Regards, Dennis
Legionnaire
New member
My first "carry" gun was a 4013; the older single-stack model, not the newer TSW. Fit and finish are good, and I like the size and slim profile. It has been very dependable through 2K+ rounds. When I got it the double-action trigger was gritty, though. Had the action honed, which made a huge difference. Very pleased with it, and am considering picking up a used 3913 when the opportunity presents itself.
Over many years:
59: Not very accurate, but never jammed in about 500 rounds.
669: Handy, accurate with the right ammo (Federal 9BP). Jammed once, perhaps a limp wrist on my part. Could never get my finger properly positioned on the trigger with my big hands.
39-2 OK accuracy, perfect reliability, good feel.
4013TSW: Great. Very accurate, 100% reliable, and felt good in my hands.
4506: Very reliable and very accurate, with any factory ammo or hdecent reloads. Doesn't feel as good as a 1911, but what does?
59: Not very accurate, but never jammed in about 500 rounds.
669: Handy, accurate with the right ammo (Federal 9BP). Jammed once, perhaps a limp wrist on my part. Could never get my finger properly positioned on the trigger with my big hands.
39-2 OK accuracy, perfect reliability, good feel.
4013TSW: Great. Very accurate, 100% reliable, and felt good in my hands.
4506: Very reliable and very accurate, with any factory ammo or hdecent reloads. Doesn't feel as good as a 1911, but what does?
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