Smith Carbine: Original Load Data?

My apologies, Drobs. I shouldn't have posted that. It was snarky beyond reason.


Regarding boring out the plastic cases, I suspect that it would result in a faster failure rate, possibly significantly faster, as there would be less mass to contain greater pressure.
 
The old style "cartridge" paper, the kind that was used to make cartridges for the Springfield rifled musket and, I suspect, the Smith, Galager, and others, is still available.

These days it's sold as drawing paper. In Britain and former British colonies it's still called cartridge paper.

Here in the US it's apparently just heavy drawing paper. You'd probably want something in the 75 to 125 grams per square meter weight.

If you had some time in your hands I think you could probably put together some credible hand rolled cartridges for a smith.

You could even make bases out of heavy duty cardboard and glued into place.

Time consuming, but maybe not more so than rolling a musket cartridge.
 
All good Mike.
Looking at google images for Smith Carbine cartridges, I stumbled on this site: http://www.shelltube.us/SmithTube.html

Smith_Tube_Liner_Gen2.jpg


Not sure the volume of the casing. I emailed them to see their thoughts on a 50gr charge and their casing.

In my brief research, I've seen black plastic &/or and brass but never seen these before.

By the way - you all are making me really want to buy one of these rifles. I've been looking for something cool in traditional BP rifle. Think this could be the trick.
 
Not sure the volume of the casing. I emailed them to see their thoughts on a 50gr charge and their casing.
Click to expand...

I emailed them as well a short time ago, and they did not respond. It has been over a month, so I can only fear that they are all DEAD... :(

JK, most likely just an unmonitored email account. :)

Mike: I do not believe the modern product "drawing paper" is quite like what was used for making musket cartridges during the ACW. For one thing, that paper was cotton/linen based, not wood fiber based like today's paper. If anything it was more akin to the paper used to print money these days. It was stronger and more durable. It also had a buff or tan appearance, not white like modern drawing paper. Indeed, even modern "cartridge paper" (which I've never found available in this country) probably isn't like the original genuine article.

These days, most just use the brown kraft paper you can get at Wal-Mart etc. or the same type paper they sell at Home Depot to protect the floor from paint.

Smith carbine paper cartridges were much thicker, more like paperboard. Think of a paper shotgun shell, and also were foil-lined. This was to contain the actual pressure of firing, something the rifled musket cartridge paper wasn't used for.
 
Model 12...

Not entirely true.

The first mass produced wood pulp paper mills opened in the United States in the 1840s, and by the time of the Civil War they were supplying increasing amounts of paper in the United States, including for use in cartridges.

Traditional cartridge paper was, as you say, linen/cotton based, but with the enormous demand for cartridges during the war that quickly went by the wayside because it was far more time consuming and expensive to produce.

The British were using machine formed pulp paper tubes for Enfield cartridges prior to the Civil War, partially as a means of automating as much of the cartridge production process as possible.

Here's a nifty little paper on the subject that I found some months ago: http://www.newyorkcivilwar.com/qm/cartridgetubes.pdf

No, modern "cartridge paper" isn't like the old cartridge paper, but old cartridge paper wasn't like the older cartridge paper, either.

I have no doubt that with some experimentation one could make credible Smith cartridges using modern pulp paper.

One of these days, depending on how bored I get, I may just give it a try.



"Smith carbine paper cartridges were much thicker, more like paperboard. Think of a paper shotgun shell, and also were foil-lined. This was to contain the actual pressure of firing, something the rifled musket cartridge paper wasn't used for."

I don't have an original Smith paper cartridge, and I'm not going to spring for one, either, just so I can dissect it, but it's my understanding that the thickness was built up through multiple rolled layers of heavy cartridge-style paper.

I've never heard of any of them being machine formed from pulp as the Enfield cartridges described in the link above.

I also don't believe that all of them were foil lined. There were multiple manufacturers of Smith cartridges. Some makers apparently shellacked the insides of the tubes to waterproof them.

The largest maker, Poultney and Trimble, did produce foil lined cartridges, not only for the Smith, but also the Galager and other carbines that used a built up cartridge.
 
Very cool Mike, thanks for the info. I have always heard during the ACW they used what we would now refer to as "rag" paper. It seems like wood pulp paper was indeed used as well. I'll have to read that paper.
 
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