Sloppy Police Work in Colorado OR How your life can be ruined

Hal - Thanks for trying to calm the troubled waters in this thread. Very interesting story - glad it worked out for you.

Breacher and Wildcard - Both of you should read Claire Wolfe's article in the March issue of S.W.A.T. before you post again on this subject. There is a middle ground that is worth seeking.

Do either of these apply to either of you?
Capt. Charlie said:
I'm tired of folks that are just plain prejudiced against blue, and I'm tired of cops that can't handle the weight of the Badge without leaning on other people.
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Also, please knock off the veiled insults. :(

-Dave
 
Reaching the middle ground would be an admirable goal. Wildcard will never reach that point, he's a self admitted cop hater and his bias towards law enforcement, for whatever inane reason - guides his hate and bolsters this crutch he so heavily leans on.

If the guy fell on a pin he would be blind in both eyes.

All warrants for arrest must be verified with dispatch at our S.O. before taken into custody where i work.

Incidents like this do occur - rarely- is the system perfect = no. Human intervention assures this - life goes on.


12-34hom.
 
I do not hate LEO’s. Never have. With that said, I do hate LEO’s that abuse their office and then Hide behind their badge. That is bad enough, compound that with other LEO’s (not all) circling the blue wagons around a brother officer that is clearly in the wrong. Most police officers are hard working men and women with a desire to change their corner of the world for the better. Sadly, IMO, some LEO’s (their numbers are growing) think a police officer can do no wrong. It cracks me up when I hear on some topics; “if you don’t like a law, contact your reps and change it”. That is stupid logic. If you as a LEO see that the law is not right, but you just follow orders, you are as bad as the people (in some cases worse) that made the law. The damage to society and LEO’s image is still the same.

The issue I posted about problems in Colorado is the perfect example. One can not deny that a problem exists with the warrant system in Colorado. Hundreds of Coloradans have warrants issued for them, for crimes they DID NOT commit. One or two mistakes, sure, not a problem, but hundreds??? Then the cop bashing angle comes in, and LEO’s actually defending the actions of Colorado’s warrant system {wagons circling}. This is not cop bashing, this is a real problem. A problem that has landed many in jail, time away from family and work, and thousands of dollars spent on something that NEVER should have happened in the first place. But by all means, lets continue to label anyone who dares to shed light on bad police work as a cop basher. Lets not solve the problem, lets not talk about it, let’s continue the US vs. Them mentality.

You want to put the title of Cop Basher on me, fine. I will be the first to stand up for any Police Officer wrongly accused. Have done so many times, gone to court on behalf of LEO’s , helped them out when needed during arrests. I will continue to do so. I will also continue to shed light on LEO’s that abuse their badge and stomp on the rights of citizens.

12-34, you are so blinded, and in my opinion, so brainwashed into the thin blue line, you would obey any order given, without question.
 
I have only had one negative experience with a law enforcment officer in my life (50 years). That was corrected on the spot by another officer. It is unfair to categorize all law enforcement officers in the same basket as a few bad apples.

I beleive that most of the officers want to to do the job the right way and frown on those bad apples.

If you keep looking for only bad examples you will miss the good examples that far outnumber the bad.

so next time you see a bad example hit the google for good/positive examples.
 
Wildcard, i be real interested in hearing about your dealings with or "on the behalf" of police officers you've gone to court for - our your so called
" ride along experiences" that you have previously claimed you have been on.

I've asked before - you back down every time - where and when - what agency - i have nothing to hide - do you?

You make claims - Bona Fides - got any? - If so lets hear about them.

12-34hom.
 
Enough name calling! :mad:

This thread is teetering close to the edge just because of just two or three members... Let's not allow a few to ruin a good discussion for everyone.
 
I don't see how this is sloppy police work.

The police report charges that Rodriguez beat another woman outside a Conoco gas station at 35th and Downing Street and then ran away. [highlight]The victim gave police Rodriguez's name.[/highlight] A 16-year-old student witnessed the attack.
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There was an assault. The victim of the assault stated that Rodriguez was the person responsible, and a warrant was issued based on the statement of the victim.

LawDog
 
Im going to repeat myself....how does anyone know what the TRUE FACTS are....

Its the press, remember

WildwhatsprintedistrueifitfitsprejudicesAlaska
 
There was an assault. The victim of the assault stated that Rodriguez was the person responsible, and a warrant was issued based on the statement of the victim.
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They arrested the WRONG Rodriguez.

"For me, it's just been really hard. Having to deal with this, take time off work from this, having different court dates I had to appear at. It just basically turned my world upside down," Rodriguez said.

Holding them accountable includes finding out which police or sheriff's departments are making the most false arrests in the state or entering the wrong arrest data in the records of innocent people in Colorado.

To find out, 7NEWS asked the CBI for records that would give us that information. So far, the state officials have refused. But the attorney general is now reconsidering 7NEWS' request.

As for Rodriguez, Denver police officials admit the case was probably mishandled by the officer. 7NEWS' investigation has caused her case to be turned over to the department's internal affairs for investigation.

But that is little consolation to Rodriguez, who has now spent hundreds of dollars trying to clear her name.
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Holding them accountable includes finding out which police or sheriff's departments are making the most false arrests in the state or entering the wrong arrest data in the records of innocent people in Colorado.
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Erroneous warrants, and why a judge signed them, are one thing, but the author of the original article is obviously misinformed on the subject of arrest data. CBI and Colorado Courts current standard is for a fingerprint match for every arrest entry. As the system is set up now CBI checks prints before adding a new arrest to the persons previous record. If the prints don't match, but the other identifiers do, indicating someone is using the name of another person, then CBI is going to consider the person whose name was being used a victim of misidentification. Only CBI knows for sure at this point, but based upon my anecdotal observations, a significant portion of those victims of misidentification are actually victims of criminal impersonation by someone trying to avoid being arrested or IDed.

Record keeping here in Colorado has improved dramatically in recent years, but thanks to TABOR, CBI and Colorado Courts are still dramatically underfunded and backlogged.
 
. Hundreds of Coloradans have warrants issued for them, for crimes they DID NOT commit. One or two mistakes, sure, not a problem, but hundreds???
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750 IIRC was the number mentioned somewhere within the article or one of the links I followed.
Even if the number was as high as 1000, it would be an insignificant part of the total number of arrests.

In 2004 according to CBI, there were 265,567 arrests in Co.

My bet would be that in the 750 cases,,,almost all of them,,with a few exceptions,,were cleared up immediately.

Ready for stories 2 and 3?

- One day I had a message on my answering machine at home. Seems someone with the same first, middle and last name had some unpaid traffic tickets. The message said a warrant had been issued for my arrest. I called the detective back and gave him the make and licence number of my car. Case (against me) closed.

- One day I opened the newspaper,,and lo and behold,,there was a story about a (painting) company I used to own. Seems that "the owner" of the company was wanted for passing bad checks in an adjacent city. I called the detective mentioned in the story and id'ed myself to him as the EX-owner of the company, which I closed after not making a go of it.
Ends up, a guy that worked with my wife took one of the old company checks out of her purse and duplicated a bunch of them and started passing them.
My wife worked at a group home and used the old checks to teach the residents how to fill out a check. All of the checks were marked VOID. I guess the guy just used the name, address and account number.
Again - case against me closed. (except for the minor chewing out i got from the detective about making sure account numbers on old checks were obliterated)


So - from firsthand experience - since lightning "struck" me three times - all I can say is,,this is being blown all out of proportion by the media. I believe they are citing a few exceptional cases and ignoring the vast majority of more pedestrian ones.
 
So - from firsthand experience - since lightning "struck" me three times - all I can say is, this is being blown all out of proportion by the media. I believe they are citing a few exceptional cases and ignoring the vast majority of more pedestrian ones.
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Not to doubt you in the least, but if even ONE innocent person has to spend hundreds (or thousands) of dollars of their own money attempting to clear their good name, doesn't that merit attention by the media and outrage by the public?

Certainly it must be true, as you say, that for every exceptional case there are a vast number more of pedestrian ones cleared up without major difficulty, loss of good reputation, improper inclusion of an arrest on someone's record who should never have been arrested, or spending hundreds of dollars. And then there are, presumably, people who fail to read the correct newspaper or fail to respond correctly or promptly, and wind up in a legal morass.

But the existence of one does not negate the existence of the other: By definition, NONE of these people wrongly accused of committing crimes had done anything wrong, and NONE of them should have been arrested.

If I am an innocent and law abiding citizen, I have no obligation whatsoever to need to defend myself from mistaken accusations, or to constantly monitor newspapers in hope of catching police errors before they become serious.

Dex
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P.S. Before anyone "wonders", no I don't "hate cops".

I merely have what might be called an "older" understanding of the relationship between servant and master - one that recalls my father (a lawyer) lecturing bureaucrats on how their salries were paid for by the people, which meant that they were employed by the people, which meant that they were directly accountable to the people for their actions, their mistakes and their lazyness on the job, because the people were their bosses. I can't say that in my subsequent study of the law, that I've changed my mind.

This would be directly opposed to what seems to be the "new" understanding of many bureaucrats and police today, that as part of the "civilian" public I am one of their minor wards, to be ordered around as they deem necessary.
 
Here's something else to think about - I own a small business. We hire mostly college educated people and we conduct background checks on all new employees. I've had three people come up with fairly scarey stuff on their record - which wasn't theirs.

I'm the kind of person who tells people what's going on and gives them a chance to clear their record. How many employers would just not hire the person and never let them know why? Most, I'd guess.
 
Law Dog Said: I don't see how this is sloppy police work.
The police report charges that Rodriguez beat another woman outside a Conoco gas station at 35th and Downing Street and then ran away. The victim gave police Rodriguez's name. A 16-year-old student witnessed the attack.
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There was an assault. The victim of the assault stated that Rodriguez was the person responsible, and a warrant was issued based on the statement of the victim.
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Hmmmm. A simple 5-second Google search of the Denver area nets 599 telephone listings for the last name of Rodriguez in the Denver area (which I suspect is merely Google's upper limit for telephone # searches.)

A slightly different search nets two (2) different "Valerie Rodriguez", at two different Denver addresses, as well as a "Velia Rodriguez", and a "Valle Rodriguez". There are also a number of "V Rodriguez," listed.

Perhaps you could explain to me how, given that public phone records show that there are at least two different people with the name "Valerie Rodriguez" in Denver, that it would be proper police work to cause a warrant to be issued based only on a name and no investigation??

I'd really like to know.

Dex
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Oh, story #4, and I suppose related to Law Dog's comment above:

Several year ago, two local city police showed up at my door, asked for me, and questioned if I'd been riding my motorcycle at such-and-such a bar two days earlier.

I replied that I never drink, I don't go to any bars, I had no idea where said bar was, and didn't own a motorcycle - a fact that they could easily verify with the DMV (though my driver's licence does have a m/c validation, because I've always kept up with keeping it even when I hadn't ridden a bike in years.) I offered to show them the complete absence of a motorcycle in my garage.

They shrugged, apologized for the inconvenience, tipped their hats and left.

The investigation was in connection with an assault & battery that had happened at said bar, where a witness had supplied my name as the assailant.

I certainly did not have a problem with their prompt investigation of the same. But I'd certainly welcome Law Dog's explaination of how it would have been "proper police work" for them to just have had a warrant issued for my arrest instead of investigating.

Dex
firedevil_smiley.gif
 
Not to doubt you in the least, but if even ONE innocent person has to spend hundreds (or thousands) of dollars of their own money attempting to clear their good name, doesn't that merit attention by the media and outrage by the public?
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No, it does not merit outrage. It merits the mistake being fixed and cost of the efforts to clear the record returned to the mistaken citizen. A mistake merits being fixed. It does not merit calling for a cop to be fired for serving an arrest warrant. It calls for a better system to be implemented, not the firing of any and all personnel who use that system. Not everything has to be an emotionally charged issue. For the most part, LEOs do not take arrests of people personally. there is no emotion involved in "I have an arrest warrant for John Doe. I serve it. John Doe goes to jail and sorts things out."

Now, in the particular case given in the news report, someone gave the police a name that matched a person. This was also given by the witness. Sounds like someone lied or mistook the facts. How exactly is that anyone's fault in the law enforcement community? Oh, that's right, because the LE community has to serve the warrant.

As to the other 749 cases, or whatever, who knows? I'm sure the news article wouldn't expound upon any reasons other than the Police are abusing their authority. Wildcard, can you come up with NO REASONS why this might happen other than abuse of power? If you can, you'd better not share them or you'll be guilty of "circling the blue wagons"
 
oops! my bad.

Story says 750 people cleared over a 4 year period.
That reduces an already insignificant number by 1/4.
187 out of over 260,000.

Dex,
I agree with most of what you say. Yes - even though it's an insignificant number, it merits some kind of attention being drawn to what's happening.
Oddly (or maybe not so oddly) - that's what's happening. These *News Investigations* actually do a pretty good job of stirring the pot and bringing these types of stories out.

No heads will roll. The clerks that make the mistakes will get a verbal. The cops will be told to mind their P's and Q's, and put forth a little extra effort to make sure they have the correct person. Life will go on, things will settle down,,,,and in a couple of years - - - the same old same old.

No "system" is perfect and mistakes are going to happen.

If I am an innocent and law abiding citizen, I have no obligation whatsoever to need to defend myself from mistaken accusations, or to constantly monitor newspapers in hope of catching police errors before they become serious.
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???
#1 - (See below)
#2 - POLICE errors? I don't think that applies anywhere here.
The only police errors would be if they played mind reader and kicked these people free on the spot.

Jerome Powell - the guy arrested on a felony warrant for example. Can you honestly tell me that if you were a cop, and you pulled him over, ran his name and it came back he had a felony warrant,,,,,,you'd look in his eyes and say "That's all right Jer,,,we all know it's a big mistake,,,go on about your business and have a nice day"????

If you did, and you were a cop,,,I'd call for your head.

THAT is abuse of power and dereliction of duty.

There two major things here
(which BTW Law Dog has brought up in the past)
#1 - These are arrests,,,not court appearances.
#2 - Arrested for and convicted of are two separate things.

#1 (from above) - Your under no obligation to prove your innocence. The court is under an obligation to prove your guilt. - That much is correct.
BUT - if you don't oblige yourself,,who will?

P.S. Before anyone "wonders", no I don't "hate cops".
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LOL! Here's the weird part of this whole thing. I lean a lot to the "cop hater" side of things. I have a lot of respect for some (maybe most) individuals in law enforcement,,but on the whole,,I'd have no qualms if they disbanded every law enforcement agency except the county Sheriff's department.
So if even a "cop hater" like me can see the wrong people are taking the heat over this story,,,,,,,
 
#1. The police do not put the warrants out. The prosecutor files for warrants. All the police do is report what is told to them, and what they find out. If the local piggly wiggly is robbed, and a witness says he saw Joe Blow do it...Suprise, suprise, Joe Blow is going to have a warrant.

#2. Witnesses are notoriously unreliable, and most often they are relying on what others at the scene say they saw.

#3. Everyone wants to blame the cops, cuz its an easy out. Its the sissy thing to do.
 
The police do not put the warrants out. The prosecutor files for warrants. All the police do is report what is told to them, and what they find out.
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Although the article makes the problem appear much worse than it is, because the reporter didn't do enough research, it is fair to say that some erroneous warrants exist. In Colorado, Police Officers can and do apply for warrants. In many jurisdictions it is a policy requirement to have them reviewed by the D.A.'s office, but it is not universal.
 
While I agree

that the article may have "overblown" the problems, when you consider the number of errors vs. the numbers of arrests..It still IS a problem...

My personal story...The last place I worked had an opportunity to do work on a HUGE contract for the Post Office. I would've been the supervisor for whole thing. Every one that would've worked on it had to pass a background check. During my background check they found a charge of "petite larceny"...No arrest, charges dismissed...BUT, I have (had) no idea where this came from. I had even been bonded, when I had done security work, at another job, AFTER this supposed charge (which was many years old).

When I tried to get it cleared up, the court was unable to give me ANY details, other than the original charge, and the fact that the charges were eventually dropped. I asked that it be "expunged", and they said they would. (although I should probably check this to see it was actually done).

HOWEVER, in the meantime, I was NOT allowed to work on that project (which would've meant a raise of about $15-20,000/yr.)

To add insult to injury, some very expensive computer stuff turned up missing, shortly after, in a high-security area that only a few people had access to. You guessed it...I was one of those people...They questioned everyone, but they GRILLED me, several times. Fortunately (and I don't know the details) they found the culprit.

So, this was a minor thing (misdemeanor, so no warrent ever issued) that caused me alot of grief, and some money to boot, even though I never had to go to court or anything.

In short, I agree that there's problems here, and the "system" needs to be made more "diligent" when it comes to these things. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? How about a more rigorous application of "probable cause". In this case it appears a felony warrant was issued, strictly on the basis of the victim giving a name (and maybe a common one at that) and a warrant was issued without any additional supporting evidence. And that shouldn't be allowed. I would think the 4th Amendment applies, just as it should for a search warrant. It sound like a judge (or judges) are simply "rubber stamping" some of these arrest warrants.
 
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