Skeeter Skelton: Best trail gun?
- Thread starter the possum
- Start date
Times were different back then , most guns had steel frames . Few had alloy.
The term trail gun to me means you are carrying it in a holster , on a belt , around your waist. You can carry a K-Frame S&W in 38/357 with a 3 inch barrel easily in a belt holster .
Concealment isn't an issue .
My trail guns now are a S&W model 317 , 8 shot , 22 LR Airlite with 3 inch barrel and adjustable sights or a Taurus 455, 5 shot , 45 acp with a 2 inch barrel .
My old Ruger Blackhawk 357 magnum got retired from everyday use in favor of the more compact S&W 317 and Taurus 455 .
Gary
The term trail gun to me means you are carrying it in a holster , on a belt , around your waist. You can carry a K-Frame S&W in 38/357 with a 3 inch barrel easily in a belt holster .
Concealment isn't an issue .
My trail guns now are a S&W model 317 , 8 shot , 22 LR Airlite with 3 inch barrel and adjustable sights or a Taurus 455, 5 shot , 45 acp with a 2 inch barrel .
My old Ruger Blackhawk 357 magnum got retired from everyday use in favor of the more compact S&W 317 and Taurus 455 .
Gary
Dusty Rivers
New member
Sig P239 in .40 with an extra mag gives you 14 rounds with enough punch to dissuade a hog, coyote, cougar or bad camper.
Most of the time I spend out in the woods I'm hunting so I've got some type of centerfire rifle on me - ranging from a 30-30 on the low end up to a 300 Weatherby with a couple of others in between depending on the situation. More than enough to handle anything I'd ever encounter in Idaho, on two legs or four.
If I'm just out with the family camping and hiking I generally keep my midsize 9mm on me with an extra mag in my pocket. Not necessary but I feel better having it, and it's lightweight and easy to carry. Pretty cheap to shoot too.
If I'm just out with the family camping and hiking I generally keep my midsize 9mm on me with an extra mag in my pocket. Not necessary but I feel better having it, and it's lightweight and easy to carry. Pretty cheap to shoot too.
Some nostalgia, Frank Buck (for those of you old enough to remember the "Bring em' back alive" sagas) carried a S&W HD revolver .38-44, 5 inch in Heiser leather, at least some of the time.
The elephant hunter John "Pondoro" Taylor had a.38 revolver (make unknown, but probably a Smith) and advocated an open top holster saying a flap holster could get you killed. He was very wary of the two legged "dangerous game" in some of the wild territory he ventured to.
Sasha Seimel, the spear hunting Jaguar killer, carried a .38 revolver as a back up but had, in addition, a 30-30 carbine.
The author and hunter Peter Hathaway Capstick brought to the African bush a Ruger Blackhawk which he referred to as a .38 so I guess it was probably a .357 stoked with the smaller cartridge.
Of course, most of these guys were also armed with some heavy duty long gun ordnance but especially in the case of Taylor, had to draw their pistols to defend themselves or stop a threat.
Elmer Keith always referred to the handgun as a weapon of opportunity. Never know when you might need it but it's there just in case.
The elephant hunter John "Pondoro" Taylor had a.38 revolver (make unknown, but probably a Smith) and advocated an open top holster saying a flap holster could get you killed. He was very wary of the two legged "dangerous game" in some of the wild territory he ventured to.
Sasha Seimel, the spear hunting Jaguar killer, carried a .38 revolver as a back up but had, in addition, a 30-30 carbine.
The author and hunter Peter Hathaway Capstick brought to the African bush a Ruger Blackhawk which he referred to as a .38 so I guess it was probably a .357 stoked with the smaller cartridge.
Of course, most of these guys were also armed with some heavy duty long gun ordnance but especially in the case of Taylor, had to draw their pistols to defend themselves or stop a threat.
Elmer Keith always referred to the handgun as a weapon of opportunity. Never know when you might need it but it's there just in case.
bamaranger
New member
....and 50 rds of ammo!!!!!!
Note Skeeters caveat that the trail gun would include 50RDS Of AMMO!!!!! And that you would not be aware your were carrying it. That is a tall order if you are walking very far, or aren't as spry as you used to be. Pretty much totally eliminates all the big bores........and that's 3 Glock mags, not counting the one that's in the pistol. I don't take 50 rds of ammo in the woods ever......unless I intend to shoot or "woods plink." Unless.....Skeeter was talking about "on the trail", for more than a couple of hours or a day. Then 50 rds makes more sense. I'd like to see the context of the sentence and the complete article. There may well be a difference between a "trail gun" and and a "woods gun"?
I went for a stroll this afternoon, archery deer scouting. I could legally carry any handgun I wanted, since small game was in, I could have carried a shotgun, or a rimfire rifle as well, even both. I took a Ruger Single 6 in .22 mag and 12 extra rounds of ammo, all on a leather belt rig with a sheath knife. I shot a drink can 1 time on an embankment, then went over and retrieved it along with some other trash I carried out.
When I stopped for gas at dusk at the C-store, I felt a little undergunned should trouble arisen, but not totally naked. I hadn't planned on going to the store, but that darn Bronco is just plain thirsty all the time. I had planned on covering as much ground as possible (not so much these days) and was glad my rig was pretty light. Had I paid more attention to the gage a forehand, I might have carried the B-hawk in .357 with 6 extra rounds in its chest rig, which I did aplenty in years gone by. The b-hawk puts .38 WC(woods) and .357/125 (SD) in the same place, a very useful trait (my M28 does the same thing BTW). But I semi retired both the .357 revolvers for a G20/10mm as a heavy woods pistol.
But............ had I taken the G20, I would not have shot the can!!!!!!!
Note Skeeters caveat that the trail gun would include 50RDS Of AMMO!!!!! And that you would not be aware your were carrying it. That is a tall order if you are walking very far, or aren't as spry as you used to be. Pretty much totally eliminates all the big bores........and that's 3 Glock mags, not counting the one that's in the pistol. I don't take 50 rds of ammo in the woods ever......unless I intend to shoot or "woods plink." Unless.....Skeeter was talking about "on the trail", for more than a couple of hours or a day. Then 50 rds makes more sense. I'd like to see the context of the sentence and the complete article. There may well be a difference between a "trail gun" and and a "woods gun"?
I went for a stroll this afternoon, archery deer scouting. I could legally carry any handgun I wanted, since small game was in, I could have carried a shotgun, or a rimfire rifle as well, even both. I took a Ruger Single 6 in .22 mag and 12 extra rounds of ammo, all on a leather belt rig with a sheath knife. I shot a drink can 1 time on an embankment, then went over and retrieved it along with some other trash I carried out.
When I stopped for gas at dusk at the C-store, I felt a little undergunned should trouble arisen, but not totally naked. I hadn't planned on going to the store, but that darn Bronco is just plain thirsty all the time. I had planned on covering as much ground as possible (not so much these days) and was glad my rig was pretty light. Had I paid more attention to the gage a forehand, I might have carried the B-hawk in .357 with 6 extra rounds in its chest rig, which I did aplenty in years gone by. The b-hawk puts .38 WC(woods) and .357/125 (SD) in the same place, a very useful trait (my M28 does the same thing BTW). But I semi retired both the .357 revolvers for a G20/10mm as a heavy woods pistol.
But............ had I taken the G20, I would not have shot the can!!!!!!!
Maybe two?
A small light 22 semiautomatic, like maybe the Taurus polymer one. With maybe an extra magazine. That would be good if a small game animal stood close by demanding to be shot, or if you felt like plinking just a little.
My EDC is a Ruger LCR 38. If the weather is good for a cover garment, a G43 or G26 might be substituted. That would be enough to discourage larger varmints, at least in my neck of the woods.
Even carrying both and a reload or two for each wouldn't be that taxing or obtrusive.
A small light 22 semiautomatic, like maybe the Taurus polymer one. With maybe an extra magazine. That would be good if a small game animal stood close by demanding to be shot, or if you felt like plinking just a little.
My EDC is a Ruger LCR 38. If the weather is good for a cover garment, a G43 or G26 might be substituted. That would be enough to discourage larger varmints, at least in my neck of the woods.
Even carrying both and a reload or two for each wouldn't be that taxing or obtrusive.
- which, while available in a wheelgun platform, packs lighter and with greater capacity in the Glock autoloader platform. the possum
New member
I included a link to the full article in the original post. That website has dozens of his writings archived. Skeeter didn't really give a whole lotta context, which is partly why I sought discussion here. He talks at length about various .22 pistols and loads, and weights of various guns, and how many makes and models are available. But very little about what he'd expect to shoot with it, how long/far the trip was, or why he'd carry 50 rounds when he didn't plan to use it in the first place. I believe he was talking about a gun belt complete with cartridge loops, which may be why.
I've noticed I tend to carry a pocket full of ammo, regardless of the pistol I brought. (Unless I plan on some "woods plinking"- I like that term.) Smaller ammo means more rounds, so I'm more inclined to use a few.
I've pondered the 10mm for 20 years, but never made the leap to purchase one. Glocks just don't fit my hand- I have short fingers. But the Tanfoglio Witness feels great.
I've noticed I tend to carry a pocket full of ammo, regardless of the pistol I brought. (Unless I plan on some "woods plinking"- I like that term.) Smaller ammo means more rounds, so I'm more inclined to use a few.
I've pondered the 10mm for 20 years, but never made the leap to purchase one. Glocks just don't fit my hand- I have short fingers. But the Tanfoglio Witness feels great.
That was about the time I started reading about guns and there were lots of articles on trail guns. They were some of my favorite reads too. My trail gun of choice for the last decade has been a Ruger single Six in 32 mag. Its a little lighter in weight over the 22 version but the slightly heavier ammo makes up the difference.
I do wish it would occur to S&W to take their alloy frame 5 shot revolvers like the 637 and add a 4" barrel and open sights. That would be a great, easy to carry field and trail gun in a decent caliber. Dream on.
I have a couple other guns that work for trail use. An old S&W model 34-1 with a flat latch in 22lr and a model 36-6 38 special with 3" barrel and adjustable sights and a matt finish like my model 28. S&W only made 615 of those guns so its sort of rare. I think both are under 24oz unloaded. Easy to carry guns.
I do wish it would occur to S&W to take their alloy frame 5 shot revolvers like the 637 and add a 4" barrel and open sights. That would be a great, easy to carry field and trail gun in a decent caliber. Dream on.
I have a couple other guns that work for trail use. An old S&W model 34-1 with a flat latch in 22lr and a model 36-6 38 special with 3" barrel and adjustable sights and a matt finish like my model 28. S&W only made 615 of those guns so its sort of rare. I think both are under 24oz unloaded. Easy to carry guns.
bamaranger
New member
woods pistols/trail guns over the years
I started out with a 4" Ruger Securtiy Six, purchased initially a a spare service revolver in the front of my career. Wish I still had it. Anyhow, after a few years, I acquired a Charter Bulldog .44 spl. and that did woods duty. Eventually the Bulldog went out of time. Then I had to have a single action, and traded the Security Six for a Blackhawk in .357. Still have it, and carry it afield now and again as noted earlier. But eventually I drifted away from serious calibers as woods/trail guns and started toting a Ruger MkII .22lr standard auto afield. Later I acquired a dual cyinder Single Six, and keep the mag cylinder in the revolber. I found I shoot the rimfires more plinking and at targets of opportunity, than the bigger calibers, and did not mind the fact that the rimfire was not as powerful as a bigger cartridge.
Then there was a horrendous crime in our area, a double homicide of a father and son (unarmed) at a boat ramp, and I reconsidered my light caliber. I swapped back and forth between the Blackhawk and a S&W Mtn gun in .44, but really considered both a bit heavy and cumbersome if I was walking very far. About that time, I stumbled up on a G20, almost by accident, and have pretty much retired my serious revolvers in the woods.
But I still enjoy carrying a .22 handgun if I intend to walk very far, and the aforementioned Single -6 in .22 mag still goes afield now and then. With its longer tube (6.5") I can manage the sights better than a shorter barreled handgun, and thus likely shoot it better than any pistol I own.
I started out with a 4" Ruger Securtiy Six, purchased initially a a spare service revolver in the front of my career. Wish I still had it. Anyhow, after a few years, I acquired a Charter Bulldog .44 spl. and that did woods duty. Eventually the Bulldog went out of time. Then I had to have a single action, and traded the Security Six for a Blackhawk in .357. Still have it, and carry it afield now and again as noted earlier. But eventually I drifted away from serious calibers as woods/trail guns and started toting a Ruger MkII .22lr standard auto afield. Later I acquired a dual cyinder Single Six, and keep the mag cylinder in the revolber. I found I shoot the rimfires more plinking and at targets of opportunity, than the bigger calibers, and did not mind the fact that the rimfire was not as powerful as a bigger cartridge.
Then there was a horrendous crime in our area, a double homicide of a father and son (unarmed) at a boat ramp, and I reconsidered my light caliber. I swapped back and forth between the Blackhawk and a S&W Mtn gun in .44, but really considered both a bit heavy and cumbersome if I was walking very far. About that time, I stumbled up on a G20, almost by accident, and have pretty much retired my serious revolvers in the woods.
But I still enjoy carrying a .22 handgun if I intend to walk very far, and the aforementioned Single -6 in .22 mag still goes afield now and then. With its longer tube (6.5") I can manage the sights better than a shorter barreled handgun, and thus likely shoot it better than any pistol I own.
the possum said:
I think much depends on the activity to determine the definition. For a "trail gun", my definition is for backpacking; anywhere from 50-150 miles, which we do a couple times a year. At those distances, weight is paramount. I still prefer the weight-sacrifice of a lightweight auto (and carry system), but for reference, my base-weight (everything minus food, water, and fuel) is usually about 13-14 pounds for a spring to fall trip, and that includes my Hill People Gear Kit Bag with handgun:
No, I don't expect to use it and for it's use, it's primarily for two-legged predators. Defining your threat is likely more important than the activity, but for backpacking, weight is an important factor...this isn't a day hike, it's cranking out 12-18 miles a day for several consecutive days. Concealed carry is important given that we travel through several small towns and some backpackers on the AT aren't overly fond of guns (not that I care, but it's less hassle). I have close to 1500 miles logged with Kit Bags (latest is their original Snubby which is perfect). I've tried various handguns and the Kahr CM9 just seems to be the right fit. My wife and I even took a week long "Leave No Trace" instructor certification course in the Shenandoah National Park with a group of about 12. I wore my Kit Bag and handgun the entire time and never once got anything other than "cool idea for carrying snacks and your map".
For me, a lightweight, sub-compact auto is the perfect trail gun if you're backpacking. I also carried a J-Frame which is another great choice.
ROCK6
buck460XVR
New member
Terms like "trail gun" and "featherweight" are relative and subjective. So is perceived threat/danger. Many times tho, none of those are realistic. Modern thought and technology has made recent production guns lighter/smaller and their ammo more effective than back in Skeeter's day. So has the ease accessibility and variety of firearms.
Folks should use want they feel most confident and comfortable with and what they are most proficient with. This relates to Trail guns, EDCs, nightstand guns and primary hunting weapons.
Folks should use want they feel most confident and comfortable with and what they are most proficient with. This relates to Trail guns, EDCs, nightstand guns and primary hunting weapons.
Jim Watson
New member
Ed Harris once did a gunzine piece, saying that he was tired of wearing out Chiefs' Specials and wanted a new light walking around gun. So he got a then-new Ruger Single Six .32 H&R. Which isn't a BIG gun but certainly heavier than a Chief.
Not a trail gun, but one LA LEO, also top competitive shooter, said that during the LA riots he had a M51 and a box of .22 WMR in his pocket to supplement his service pistol should he be cut off. An extra 56 rounds might have made a difference.
Not a trail gun, but one LA LEO, also top competitive shooter, said that during the LA riots he had a M51 and a box of .22 WMR in his pocket to supplement his service pistol should he be cut off. An extra 56 rounds might have made a difference.
seeker_two
New member
One think I like about revolvers as trail guns is that it's easier to police your brass. Finding ejected cases in high grass or fallen leaves is a hassle (unless you use steel-cased ammo & carry a shop magnet). This also makes revolvers in auto calibers appealing.
Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
bamaranger
New member
comments
Risking putting the post on a sidetrack, not quite .41mag......close enough for comparison though. The 10mm auto comes close to the softer factory .41 mag police load with the LSWC slug, factory .41 JHP hunting ammo was hotter still. Too, much factory 10mm ammo is notoriously soft, the boutique companies get the 10mm on up there, but domestic stuff can be a bit lame, especially from shorter tubes (less than 5"). And handloading requires the right choice of powders to get top velocities as well. I'm still a fan of the 10mm, but it is not a .41........with the right loads it has a good edge on factory .357 from short barreled revolvers though.
The .32 H&R may make an ideal trail caliber. More gun than any rimfire, not as big as a .38/.357. Seems like somewhere I read an article where a 'smith made up a .32 on a Bearcat frame.......5-shot, but I could be wrong about that. The old 25-20 is another soft centerfire and might be a candidate for such a conversion as well...........but I have no idea on the real compatibility and the dimensions necessary. Skeeter likely had the right idea with the .38 spl. Something like a 5 shot, 3- 4" steel J-frame and adjustable sights. Thing is, I've never had an interest in .38spl ONLY revolvers, and many available are K frames, and most of them, fixed sights. I bought, shot and loaded .357's, and if I wanted .38's, simply interchanged them.
I too recall mention of a .22 revolver and ammo in the pants pocket comments during the riot era of the late 60's.
Risking putting the post on a sidetrack, not quite .41mag......close enough for comparison though. The 10mm auto comes close to the softer factory .41 mag police load with the LSWC slug, factory .41 JHP hunting ammo was hotter still. Too, much factory 10mm ammo is notoriously soft, the boutique companies get the 10mm on up there, but domestic stuff can be a bit lame, especially from shorter tubes (less than 5"). And handloading requires the right choice of powders to get top velocities as well. I'm still a fan of the 10mm, but it is not a .41........with the right loads it has a good edge on factory .357 from short barreled revolvers though.
The .32 H&R may make an ideal trail caliber. More gun than any rimfire, not as big as a .38/.357. Seems like somewhere I read an article where a 'smith made up a .32 on a Bearcat frame.......5-shot, but I could be wrong about that. The old 25-20 is another soft centerfire and might be a candidate for such a conversion as well...........but I have no idea on the real compatibility and the dimensions necessary. Skeeter likely had the right idea with the .38 spl. Something like a 5 shot, 3- 4" steel J-frame and adjustable sights. Thing is, I've never had an interest in .38spl ONLY revolvers, and many available are K frames, and most of them, fixed sights. I bought, shot and loaded .357's, and if I wanted .38's, simply interchanged them.
I too recall mention of a .22 revolver and ammo in the pants pocket comments during the riot era of the late 60's.
the possum
New member
Rock6-
Love those pictures; think I saw you post 'em on Bladeforums in the past. I've been thinking about one of those Hill People Gear chest rigs myself. I rarely get to do the kind of hiking you're talking about, but when I do have a pack, the waist belt really hinders most normal (pistol) carry options. That chest bag, or really any other kind of bag that could attach to the shoulder straps in front, would be a great option.
I can't find any reason to question the gun you've chosen for your stated purposes. In my situation, where one of my primary purposes is shooting at varmints or small game, I don't think the sub compact defensive pistols would be nearly as easy to score hits with. But I honestly haven't practiced with them much like that; maybe they wouldn't be as bad as I expect. Think you could nail a skunk at 25 yards with your CM9 most of the time?
Love those pictures; think I saw you post 'em on Bladeforums in the past. I've been thinking about one of those Hill People Gear chest rigs myself. I rarely get to do the kind of hiking you're talking about, but when I do have a pack, the waist belt really hinders most normal (pistol) carry options. That chest bag, or really any other kind of bag that could attach to the shoulder straps in front, would be a great option.
I can't find any reason to question the gun you've chosen for your stated purposes. In my situation, where one of my primary purposes is shooting at varmints or small game, I don't think the sub compact defensive pistols would be nearly as easy to score hits with. But I honestly haven't practiced with them much like that; maybe they wouldn't be as bad as I expect. Think you could nail a skunk at 25 yards with your CM9 most of the time?