Silencer....

It is not illegal under federal law to own a short barrel rifle or shotgun, a machinegun or a silencer. (State or local law may differ.) If a MG was legally registered prior to May 1986 and is transferrable, it can be bought. I know of no legal MG owner or collector who has ever been visited by BATF. The only reason would be if a gun registered to a person turned up at a crime scene or in some other investigation.

Manufacture/import of machineguns for private sale has been banned since May 1986, but short barrel rifles and shotguns, as well as silencers, can still be made, registered and transferred.

There is no special privilege or elite group involved, except that the cost of MGs after the ban has taken them out of reach of most folks.

Jim
 
What Jim says is correct. What Monkeyleg stated about ATF coming to your house to check class three items without a warrant is B.S. You don't give up any rights by owning class three items.
 
Apple,

A revolver is NOT a good weapon to equip with a supressor because of the gas that leaks from around the cylinder/barrel gap.

The gas that leaks out there creates a sound that is almost as loud as the gunshot itself.

The old Russian/Soviet Nagant revolver COULD be supressed due to a combination of factors:

1. A mechanism that moved the cylinder forward prior to firing.

2. A case that had the bullet seated below the case mouth and, when the cylinder moved forward, the case mouth actually entered the forcing cone on the barrel.

This provided a gas-tight seal that prevented leakage at the cylinder/barrel gap.


As for how suppressors work, there are a variety of methods, but all rely on controlling the expansion of the gas, cooling it, and dropping its expansion velocity below the speed of sound before venting it.

This can be done in a variety of ways:

1. With "packing," in other words, fibrous material like steel or brass wool that slows down the gas and removes some of its heat.

2. "Swirling" it, by forcing it to follow a circular path. this is normally done with a series of rings around the outside of a vented barrel that creates a series of chambers. The vents bleed the gas into the outer ring path. Each of the rings has a hole to the next chamber that is somewhat offset from the previous hole. Effectively, this causes the gas to expand into each chamber and "swirl" at the same time.

Properly designed, both can be very effective.

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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
Trivia. Suppressors, silencers or mufflers as they are variously called were either invented or made practicable by Hiram Percy Maxim. Mr. Maxim is credited with sound mufflers for cars, airplanes, firearms etc. He was also the holder of the first Ham Radio Operator's license.

For greatest attenuation, the cavity should be tuned for the individual gun and load.

30-06, 180gr at 1050fps out of a locked M1 is quite silencable and makes a very effective sniping load out to 200 yds.

Now there are several commercial rigs available to other than private citizens that will reach out and touch something with little sound to give away either the intent or the source.

Sam, follow me, I know a shortcut
 
There is another method for supressors.

You can use baffles to direct out-of-phase noise back towards the noise being generated (the waves cancel each other out).

Many rifle supressors use this method.
 
There is a web site I found once for a Finnish company that manufactures "dry" supressors for all sorts of guns. In Finland, from what I understand, almost all shooters use supressors, as they are cheap ($50) and reduce noise polution. I'm sorry I can't find the link, as it was a very informative site, in English.
 
I see your point on the revolvers.
I should have included the idea of placing some sort of muffler around the cylinder... does such a thing exist?
I recently finished a novel "Cuba" ,I think by Stephen Coonts, and the CIA guys used the usual .22s with suppressors. My mother is from Cuba and was trained with the Nagant, which is what got me thinking. I never brought up the topic because I thought silencers were taboo, legally. I'm glad y'all mentioned it wasn't.
I personally have no purpose for a silencer... by God I want it to sound like the hammer of Vulcan if I have to let go at a burglar. :D

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Those who use arms well cultivate the Way and keep the rules.Thus they can govern in such a way as to prevail over the corrupt- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
 
The speed of sound at sea level, standard temp. and pressure, is around 1100 fps. Almost all .45's fire subsonically. Dan Wesson revolvers have been successfully suppressed, due to the variable cylinder spacing available.

I've shot a few thousand rounds through a suppressed .45 Mac 10. (Belonged to my father) The noise is definitely there, but it is more like a low-powered .22. Definitely don't have to wear hearing protection.
 
Other guns that I have seen with slide locks include the Beretta 92F and S&W mod 59, I am sure that there are others.

The noise from a gun firing is caused by a combination of things. The bullet travelling faster than the speed of sound, and yes it is about 1100 fps (1088 at sea level if I remember correctly) and the rapid uncontrolled expansion of hot gases. Cool the gas, direct the gas flow, and reduce the velocity of the gas flow and you have designed a suppressor.

I do not believe that wipes are used on any current suppressor design as the sale of suppressor components was severely restricted by FOPA '86. Since wipes wear out frequently it would be necessary to send the suppressor in for replacement too often for it to be economical.
 
Suppressors used to be freely available in Switzerland, we never had
lots of problems. Even some Dater .22 pistols turned up and could be
bought.

And yes, they're silent. I know of a guy who emptied a magazine of
.45s through a silenced 1911 in the midst of the city of Berne one
night and no one did ever notice. Was quite fun - one saw the wholes
in the ground, the empty brass flying, but only a low 'thump' was to
be heard. Also, pigeons here fear silenced .22s.

Now, one needs the legal equivalent of a class III license to get one,
but mere possession is still possible without any permit. Hunting,
however, is forbidden with silenced weapons.
 
mussi, the reason suppressors were included in the NFA '34 here was a fear of poachers using them to take game animals illegally. This was of great concern here since we have very low population densities in the U.S. compared to Europe.
 
M16: I'm not disputing at all what Jim said.
As for my "BS" statement, a Class III owner friend of mine was visited by the Secret Service when the president was in town some time back. No warrant, and no arguments accepted. If that's not the law, then my friend was harassed, and I stand corrected.

Dick
Want to send a message to Bush? Sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/monk/petition.html and forward the link to every gun owner you know.
 
Whoever asked where to find 9mm subsonic ammo: Remington makes a 147 JHP which has a muzzle velocity of 990 feet/sec (1117 fps is sonic, 331 m/s assuming STP). I remeber seeing an advertisment for a subsonic .22 but couldn't find it when I glanced around.
The sound of a bullet passing is pretty distinct. :eek:!

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Those who use arms well cultivate the Way and keep the rules.Thus they can govern in such a way as to prevail over the corrupt- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by loknload:
While we are on the subject of Silencers/Suppressors, Here is a question regarding the effects they have on muzzle velocities and accuracy. Do they impair the weapon mounted on ?
Inquiring minds want to know :)[/quote]

Generally speaking, yes -- silencers do impair accuracy, many of them quite substantially.

It is possible to build a barrel with an integrated silencer. Such an arangement has the best performance, though there is still some loss.
 
Does a suppresor affect accuracy. Yes to a small degree. Usually the gun will have slightly better accuracy with the suppresor. Of course it must be mounted correctly.
 
The only revolver that was ever a success using a silencer was the Dan Wesson. The barrel/suppessor was one piece that screwed in to the frame like the changable barrel did. It was machined as one piece.
Also I have fired a .22 auto that looked like it had a bull barrel(about 6 inch) and when you pulled the trigger it went PHUT-Click Phut-Click. The click was the action working to eject the empty case. The .22 case hitting the pavement made more noise that the bullet leaving the barrel. The owner used it to clean out the local squirrels without upsetting his neighbors. ;)
 
The address for (one) Finnish suppressor manufacturer is: http://www.guns.connect.fi and there the Reflex Suppressors-page.

I have TR8S in my rifle and it doesn't impair accuracy. It moves the point of impact a bit but groups are actually smaller than without suppressor.

My rifle is SAKO M92S which is a semi-automatic civilian version of Finnish military assault rifle in 7.62x39. It has a shut-off valve in gas port so the loading mechanisn can be closed and rifle must be loaded manually. But oh boy it is quiet with subsonic ammunition!
Finnish military assault rifle (model name RK-95) is presented at the following address: http://www.guns.connect.fi and there the RK-95-page. Sorry, only Finnish.


When shot with full power ammo the supersonic "crack" of a bullet is the loudest sound. It can be best noticed when two rifles (with and without suppressor) are shot in a row: without suppressor it's hard to differ bullet's sound from muzzle blast.

Silencers/suppressors are legal in Finland and quite many people use them for both target shooting and hunting.



[This message has been edited by M92S (edited July 23, 2000).]
 
OkieG, actually Reed Knight made a successful suppressed revolver out of a Ruger Redhawk. The barrel was rather long and he added a detachable shoulder stock so it was more of a long gun than handgun, but still a revolver. It was in a proprietary caliber and the ammunition had a rubber skirt attached to the case that bridged the cylinder/forcing cone gap when the bullet was launched. The skirt did away with the gas leak. When the revolver cycled the skirt got shoved out of the way to allow the next chamber to align with the barrel.
 
Hey, is there a picture of one of the silenced revolvers anywhere on the net? post the address, if you please.
Thanks :)

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Those who use arms well cultivate the Way and keep the rules.Thus they can govern in such a way as to prevail over the corrupt- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
 
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