SIG Sauer: The Break Up - Terrible Customer Service - Never Buy Used

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Only a very, very few companies will honor a warranty from "Any End User".
So you should have been prepared for that from the getgo.
Bad idea even mentioning it...
should have just said you rarely shot it because it was Fussy...
stuck it in the safe & kinda forgot about it.
 
It's much riskier buying a used gun than it was 20-30 years ago. I see on the forums quite often that nowadays people do the " just try it and see" first, before figuring out the cause. Grinding, altering springs, "forming" sometimes by people without skills. One person told me proudly that his smith had clamped his pistol slide in a vise to tighten the slide/frame clearance for accuracy. Neither had shot targets before/after , so his "I can TELL it shoots better" was his reply to my asking "how'd it do". And with the great variation in metal thickness in various locations in a slide, I see no way to avoid distortion. And setting up stresses to be trouble later. So I can understand their reluctance , since neither you nor SIG has any idea what the prior owner may have done.
I am sorry for you that your expectations were dashed.
Couldn't tell much from the picture, but a wild guess is that slide is hitting too hard on retraction and front is veering left/right and bearing with excessive force against softer aluminum frame. I would straight edge check the slide ( could have been clamped) and check recoil spring for proper strength. Some molycote on those wear areas could lessen the scrub. But then molycote leaves everything black it touches. Hope you get it straightened out. SIG Repair attitude about costs sounds like their gold plated tools need replacing maybe.
 
Sorry to hear of your issues. Not sure why I'm sour on Sigs and Glocks. Guess I'm not mainstream. Sig/Glock fans remind me of the "yuppies" in the early '80;s. Turn your collar down and shove you Gran Am where the sun don't shine. So....I own too many Rugers and Henry's.



Probably the first time I've read that Glocks are for yuppies.
 
Sorry to hear of your issues. Not sure why I'm sour on Sigs and Glocks. Guess I'm not mainstream. Sig/Glock fans remind me of the "yuppies" in the early '80;s. Turn your collar down and shove you Gran Am where the sun don't shine. So....I own too many Rugers and Henry's.

Ummm, what?
 
Wow - sorry to hear about this on multiple levels.

That said, this thread contains some of the dumbest comments I have ever read on this forum.
 
Uh, you bought it used and it's six years old. Call Ford/Chevy/MB/BMW, etc. about a used 2010 pickup and see what they tell you.
 
Uh, you bought it used and it's six years old. Call Ford/Chevy/MB/BMW, etc. about a used 2010 pickup and see what they tell you.

Do those companies normally offer a lifetime warranty to the original owner like SIG does with handguns? No. For that matter, if I bought a used car and say it was 4 years old if I was still within the powertrain warranty they would cover a powertrain issue. I know this because I've had to do that with cars (I've had good car companies cover factory defects that didn't present themselves until after the warranty expired, used and new, which would seem to be the case here as well). SIG's not saying, "Well if it was only 4 years old we'd warranty it", they're saying it's used and not our problem. As people have pointed out on this thread there are firearms companies today that will not leave you in quite the lurch that is the case here.
 
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Expecting a Company, any Company, to show concern on a used pistol, 6 years old? Is not being too realistic.

Now if you were the original owner? That is different.

A buddy of mine was going to a Glock match, driving, and stopping by the Glock facility in Smyrna GA. I asked him if he would take 3 of my old Glock pistols in for a check up, and to put Glock night sights on one, a Glock 19. Cost $61.00. (He is a good friend of 20 plus years)

Seems like they changed every internal part on all three! Replaced the frame on the G17, it was cracked? I bought all three new. I can not even guess how many rounds went down the pipe on that G17, used it as a training gun.
A few thousand of those rounds were Canadian Mil Spc Sub Gun rounds. IVI.
 
I think all of these people saying "it was 6 years old" are being silly. That should mean absolutely nothing. It certainly wouldn't of he were the original owner... Or even if he lied and said he was. The punishment for being honest is to leave someone with a $950 paperweight?? That is absurd.

The "original owner" owner thing is usually just a legal cover. Most companies will still fix broken guns, ESPECIALLY when it was clearly and absolutely a manufacturing defect.

I detailed my experiences with Smith & Wesson several years back when I bought a used PPS for cheap. Turned out to be a jam-o-matic. The gun was 3 years old and I believe warranty at the time was only 1 year for original owner. I simply called S&W to see if they had any suggestions on what to look for. They insisted on sending me a prepaid label to send the gun to them. 5 days later I got a call back that the gun had irreversible frame damage... So they were sending me a brand new factory gun at no charge.

S&W won a customer for life in that move. And I have talked about that experience numerous times since. Certainly more valuable than whatever their cost on that PPS was.

Ruger has absolutely no factory warranty whatsoever. Yet they are known to work on any gun that has problems, whether you are original owner or the gun is 25 years old. They take care of customers.

Both of those companies sell guns at a much lower price point and are considered sub par by most when compared to Sig Sauer. Sig definitely dropped the ball on this one. Especially when their own factory consultant and master pistol smith, Bruce Gray, straight up told them that this was a manufacturing defect and he fully believes the company should replace it. Following the warranty guide lines to the "T" is not the RIGHT move here. This was an opportunity to do right by a customer and receive loads of praise. A cheap investment on their part.

To screw over such a devoted customer in the days of social media is a bad, bad PR move.

I have been closely involved with this story since the very beginning. I have been personally updated at each step in the process. It doesn't matter how you want to spin it or justify it in your head here. They made a mistake. I guarantee of you buy a 6 year old, used, Springfield TRP and it has a severe manufacturing defect - they are going to take care of you.
 
I am amazed that in the interweb age how many companies pull this carp.

Stories like this are going to cause lost sales, maybe 100's.

Had they replaced that gun and threw in a hat and 2 spare mags, they would almost certainly come out way ahead from a financial standpoint.

Maybe the Sig add and sales guys should have lunch with the service department once in awhile.
 
I am torn on this one.

On one hand I understand it is past the original warranty period, you are not the original owner, and SIG is under no obligation to repair it.

On the other... SIG offers a premium product and a premium price. Part of offering a premium product is offering premium service and treating owners as if they had bought a premium product.
 
Any one can make a lemon.
Indeed. What separates the good companies from the bad companies is how they fix the lemons. For as much as they charge, I would assume they'd stand behind the product like S&W does.
 
I have looked at your pictures and agree, the Sig looks highly used and has not been cared for very well.
Was this Sig bought online, and shipped to your local dealer before you could inspect it?

If Mr. Gray could not get Sig to do something, i guess no one could as he knows his way around Sig.

I am guessing Sig is standing behind the fact it was a used Sig, and replacing it will not happen. and i don't really see any other firearm Mfg. not taking the same stand.

I agree with you it's a good idea not to buy used, that is unless you can really inspect what your getting ready to buy.

Best thing today for you is to just trade this used Sig off.
 
Do those companies normally offer a lifetime warranty to the original owner like SIG does with handguns? No. For that matter, if I bought a used car and say it was 4 years old if I was still within the powertrain warranty they would cover a powertrain issue.

My thoughts exactly.

I am amazed that in the interweb age how many companies pull this carp.

Stories like this are going to cause lost sales, maybe 100's.

It's clear that today's SIG really has very little respect for their customer base. They ride the coat-tails of their name recognition, and are marketing to people who don't research products before they buy, or who will spend money on one of SIG's many tacky special models:

http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p238-edge.aspx
http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/1911-spartan.aspx
 
I actually appreciate every single comment on here. This thread took off quicker than any other thread I've ever posted. As much as I'd like to reply to every comment individually, I can't right now.

What I will say is that people appear to have not read the whole thread. About 10 years as biggest fanboy of SIG. Constant defense of them. I've sold hundreds of SIG Sauer pistols, brought them into my job when I was working for the now dead "Southern Defense". I've been known by many as the "SIG Guy" and have been for many years.

This P229 was purchased "used" but not used. Maybe 1k through the tube by myself personally. Considering I had a P220 W. German with the original owner putting 12k through it and myself another 5k through it, the wear marks were smooth and a golden color. Evenly.

This? After not so much more than 1k, the slide looks like it's going to fly off while recoiling any minute because the frame can no longer hold onto it. The aluminium is literally being shredded off at 1k+... That's not okay.

Especially when Bruce Gray himself called it as a manufacturer defect. The manufacturer STILL doesn't fess up to it and tells me to "sell it for parts".

Uncle Malice, a person friend of mine has spent well over $15,000 worth in SIG pistols and that's not even an exaggeration. I'm well into the upper 4 digits myself. This could have been anyone. A first time buyer a buyer like Uncle Malice, anyone.


Glock. Let's talk about the right way of doing things for a minute. Since SIG has a lot to learn.

I had purchased a used Glock way back when. Didn't know much about them. This was a Glock 22 Gen 2. I sent in my Glock 22 to get the slide refinished. Glock called me and said I have the "older frame" and they're going to replace it with the new frame. I was smitten, I said "Yeah! Go ahead!" So, when I got my pistol back. I had a Gen 3 frame, a new barrel, and my Gen 2 slide newly refinished. - Wowed. I was completely smitten.

Again, a few years after. I bought a Glock 19 Gen 3. Turned out it had an issue with the slide. When I described it to the rep and sent photos he said "the slide looks like a Gen 2 slide. Sending you a call tag, send it in." So I did... I got it back with a Gen 3 slide and my slightly funky Gen 2 slide.


2 times. Things that weren't a "factory defect" were taken care of.



$500 gun = $1,000 service. Glock

$1,000 gun = -$55.00 service. SIG.


It doesn't matter that it was a "6 year old gun" I've had Smith and Wesson repair / replace the yoke of my Model 19 that was made in 1963.


SIG doesn't care about their customers and they're marketing themselves like _____'s with the silliest products and product names on the market. Something looks desperate. Someone reached out to me on social media, pointing me in the direction of an ex employee and his words were:

"I'm no longer with them...as I'm not given to compromise." Whatever that means. I asked him to elaborate. We'll see.
 
I might understand Sig's position if Constantine was complaining about a problem that developed from use, wear and tear. This seems more like a manufacturing defect. To my mind, that's qualitatively different.

Yep, it's a 6 year old pistol. So what? I have shirts older than that. How many pistols from the other reputable companies (Ruger, S&W, Glock, etc.) are floating around out there with far more years and far more rounds through them? Puh-lenty. Yet we often read stories about those other companies servicing (or even replacing) those pistols with a minimum of hassle.

Wrong move, Sig. Wrong move.
 
There's another perspective. It IS a worn out used gun. And being so, the smith could evidently see it. If there were ways to correct the slide it would likely be expensive and the question of repairs costing more than the gun would come up.

Suggesting SIG warranty replace a worn out firearm to a second owner gets him off the hook, makes SIG the bad boy, and a discussion over the fees to fix the gun is avoided.

I make the speculation based on no mention of an estimate to repair. If so, the story is incomplete, and that brings up the selective inclusion of all the facts.

I see the best explanation is someone had high expectations but reality intruded on the romance. The amount of cognitive dissonance after the fact is in direct proportion to the amount of emotional deflation. We see it on the forums over and over. Placing too much faith and trust into one brand as a token of perfection will always result in some incident readjusting someone's mental perspective.

That gun is an inanimate machine that appears to have been extensively shot - no round count report - and apparently purchased without a cursory inspection. If there were high expectations the reality is the gun didn't deserve them and the acquisition process that lead to buying it included some risky assumptions of value.

All I'm reading is "I Blame SIG." a gunsmith who's deflecting having to do a repair, and no revelation of how and why it was purchased.

I see no acceptance of responsibility in the purchase of a well worn gun that would be obvious at first glance. If someone was an enthusiast of a particular brand, aware of exactly what areas of design are always a concern, then how did this one get home?
 
I have been telling anyone and everyone who will listen that todays Sig Sauer is not the Sig Sauer of old. Their overall quality control is not the same. The quality of the parts and the materials are not the same. The skill level of those who are building the pistols on the line are not the same. They are not running the same playbook anymore. They are a modern high volume move the metal at all cost type of company. Most people don't listen anymore. :rolleyes:

I believe the last time this was discussed in detail the OP stated:

I like the German, West German, and American made SIGs. I feel people are blowing this way out of proportion and turning minimal differences into extreme differences in deciding factors. It's not life and death. They're great all around.

If it has a folded carbons steel slide, it's lighter and more prone to rust.

If it has a stainless steel slide, it's heaver and less prone to rust.

You'd think we're comparing polymer to stainless steel or something. It's the same company which a few minor differences. If you come across any issues, like any other gun manufacturer.. Just get it resolved. It's not like they're more prone to spontaneous combustion. Geez.... Relax people...

Either or will serve you fine.

Seems sort of ironic to read those words against what has been posted here. I believe that warranty or no warranty that the gun should be replaced. I will take the OPs word for it that Bruce Gray has confirmed it to be a side production issue. I cannot tell anything from the pics. The markings on the barrel are odd. Not the normal Sig smiley and the markings inside the frame matching the marks on the barrel are odd. It is a bad CS move by Sig but it is well within the written warranty.

Anyone who had bought, sold and handled hundreds of Sig pistols at the store they worked at should know that buying a Sig used voids the lifetime warranty. Most of the time this will never come into play but in this instance it did. It does not matter if the gun is 1 month old or 30 years old. Age of the pistol does not come into play. Round count and maintenance does IMHO. If you take the OP at his word about maintenance and round count the age of the gun is irrelevant.

Sigs CS is spotty these days. Sometimes they come through sometimes they don't. A lot depends on who you get on the phone, how you ask for service and what you need done. If you don't get the answer you want you can sometimes call back get a different rep and get the answer you want.

I think the OP knows that Sig has never warrantied bought on the used market except for CPOs. In the past some people have been able to get "used" Sigs repaired but it is not their norm nor is it their policy. Anyone who buys a lot of used Sigs should know this going in. Bruce is a great standup guy but he is going to press only so hard. He has a relationship with Sig that is more important than an individual pistol. I cannot see him putting that on the line to get an out of warranty replacement for a customer. In the end Caveat Emptor is 100% in play not matter what used gun you are buying. It is not just Sigs. Some are better, SA, S&W & Ruger come to mind, some are worse HK comes to mind. Buy accordingly.

I would give it one last ditch effort to get them to replace the gun. Call. Ask for a manager. Tell them you are a loyal Sig guy used to work in a shop and used to move the metal etc.... Be calm and be polite don't threaten just ask. If they still refuse to fix it strip it down and sell it for parts. Life is too short. I also think it is a shame you threw the baby out with the bath water. I would have kept the working Sigs. I did when I stopped buying their new guns a rule i did not break for almost 10 years. ;)
 
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It IS a worn out used gun.

I don't know how this could have been made any more clear in the OP, unless you simply didn't read it.

The gun was purchased "used" but unfired... Constantine has put just 1k rounds through the gun.... and it has developed this wear.

The gun was not "WORN OUT".
 
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