SIG Sauer P250 9x19mm as an Home defense gun?

Dear all,

Can someone measure with an caliper the trigger reach distance (from back of the gun to the trigger) of the SIG Sauer P250 medium and small frame pistols (FULL size or COMPACT).

The trigger reach of the S&W SD9VE is 2.648".

Thanks in advance for that info.
 
The regular trigger reach for the P250 is about 2.84". According to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEoPTEtzFTo

I wonder how much the trigger reach is for the SMALL frame.

If this is true then the trigger reach of the P250 is too much. Although I love the concept (FCU and DAO) unfortunately with an trigger reach length of 2.84" the gun is out for me.

The Walther? Yes they are ergonomically better but lack the Fire Control Unit system and to me honestly the Walter PK380 feels plasticky and cheap (as I remember even some controls are plastic. That gives me an "throw up" if I see that on an duty gun). Besides the PPQ and P99 are about 600 to 700 US$ that means here they turn out to be 1400 US$.

Remember: here there (Southamerica) is no warranty nor repair service for any gun. That is why I wanted the FCU unit to eliminate the frame as the weak part of the gun (the FCU of the P250 seems to be very sturdy).
 
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John C

Yes the 380 acp is anemic but less "anemic" than having NO gun with me.

The idea of the Pico is to have the smallest possible gun (cell phone size, mouse gun) in the strongest caliber (380 acp or 32 acp or 25 acp or 22LR. The 380 acp is the best from these choices).
Any bigger size of gun as an smart phone size is problematic here since carrying an gun is skirting the law (basically carrying a gun is not well seen, open carry is prohibited). So if there is a carry gun it has to be disguised. The Glock 43 and MP shield are way to big (the gun has to be of an Seecamp size or NAA Guardian 380).

The trigger reach of an DA/SA revolver (Taurus tracker 970 22lr 6.5" barrel) in DA was allways a bit unpractical for me. Although doable I allways prefered the SA. This will be even worse with the P250 being an DAO gun.

For example: On the gun shop I handled some Diamond Back single stack carry 9mm pistols supposed to be compact but their trigger reach was way worse for me than the SD9VE's due to the very big grip.
 
Walther has two product lines; the duty oriented guns produced at Ulm, and the consumer oriented guns produced by Umarex (the airgun maker). The PPQ, P99, and I think the Creed are produced in Ulm. The others, like the PK380, P22, etc are produced by Umarex. I agree, the Umarex guns are airsoft level guns. I own a PPQ, and it's every bit the quality of a Glock.

I'm not sure your reasoning on having a replaceable grip frame is sound. In 20 years, will Beretta Pico or Nano grip frames be available? These models generally don't stick around that long. If these frames are weak, then all of the grip frames made during the production run will have been purchased by users with broken frames. If not, then all of the frames available in 20 years will be 20 years old. They'll be more likely to break. I'm afraid the era of the polymer frame means that guns are no longer heirloom pieces. They're more like cars, with a certain, designed lifespan.

I do think you're taking the right steps by doing the research necessary to upgrade your pistol. However, if you can't find a pistol with demonstrably better ergos for you, I think you should be hesitant to change pistols. There's always the risk that the pistol you buy will be a lemon, and based on your circumstances, that would be disastrous. Now, quality brands are very unlikely to put out a lemon, but the possibility is always there.

With respect to the .380, it's your gun and circumstances; you know best. The market in the US has moved away from small .380s to small 9mms, because the power differential is substantial for a very little bit more in size. It's very possible to deep conceal a G43 or Shield, even if it is tougher than smaller pistol. The key driver for me is that the G43 and Shield are well established pistols, with very high quality. The ones you are looking at are not as well established. Does this mean you'll get a lemon, or have parts breakage down the road? Maybe, or maybe not. Do you feel lucky, punk? :D
 
Dear John C,

Just because guns are not heirlooms anymore my reasoning is this: I buy a gun with FCU and a few spare Frames. If one Frame breaks in 10 years I put the other on and so forth. So I can stockpile Plastik Frames which I assume will not deteriorate in 50 years.
I assume the FCU concept is a step towards longevity of the gun.

On the other Hand I believe for example such an Pietta 1873 SAA 357 mag Revolver will be around still in 100 years.
However if guns are only thought to be disposable I am afraid as well that in that case it is NOT worthed anymore investing in guns.

Regards mouse guns in 9mm Luger vs in 380 acp.
A carry/pocket gun for me is a gun sized like the Seecamp for example. Try to shoot an Seecamp in 9x19mm (if they would make one). I believe the gun would fly out of the Hand.
On that I go more with the european style: make a tiny gun even in 25 acp, 32 acp or (awesome!!) in 380 acp (king of caliber in mouse guns). As Long as the gun is tiny and is of the size of an smart phone.
The idea for an civilian of carry a gun is to conceal/disguise the gun. At least here in Southamerica (almost nobody is allowed to carry a gun).
It makes no sense to carry a mostrously big gun (like the Beretta Nano in 9x19mm) just to carry an potent round (why not then carry an 44 Magnum pistol).

In many countries civilians are allowed to have up to 380 acp caliber in pistols and 38 spl in Revolvers. Like in Brasil. They even have not the Option to have an 9mm Luger gun as an home defense weapon. So pushing out of the marked for "whimsy caliber" the 380 acp would be an gross injustice to those restricted People. I believe the 380 acp is about of max caliber shootable from an mouse gun.
 
I can't fault your logic on stockpiling parts likely to break. However, plastic frames will likely become brittle from age. Thus, I don't think that stockpiling frames will help you much.

This is not a criticism of polymer framed guns. The trade off for light weight and corrosion resistance is reduced lifespan. For most buyers, a lifespan from 100 years to 25 years isn't a big issue. Some, in locations like yours, this is an issue. I recommend you look at metal framed guns. They're heavier, less corrosion resistant, and more expensive. But they'll last.

Saying that if guns won't last, they're not worth investing in is like saying that new Toyotas will only last 10 years and 240,000 trouble free miles, but not forever. Is that a problem? Or are they worth every penny? I drive a Toyota with 169,000 miles on it, and I'm happy. I don't want a car that supposedly will last forever. I also own a lot of polymer guns. They'll do the job I want them to for the time I want them to.
 
If you have a SIG P250 and the small grips please measure the distance from grip to trigger with a caliper to determine trigger reach.

I will see if I buy one P250 9x19mm should I sell my SD9VE.
 
I saw just S&W dropped out of the Military Trials weapon contest for the next US army sidearm. Seems SIG Sauer is there contesting with it's P320 modular System, as well Beretta with it's Beretta APX as well modular and another american Newcomer is still running with it's modular STI-Detonics STX.

All who have no modular FCU are dropped out already. Hope SIG or Beretta are winning the contest.

As I saw an Video about the APX and P320 it seems both guns have no smaller grip than my SD9VE has.
There is almost no sense to Change the weapon with an P250 I guess. But I may shoot more accurate with the P250 (actually I am way more accurate with my SAA Pietta 357 mag Revolver than with this SD9VE).

I do not know if all semi Auto pistols are inaccurate or what. I have not that much confidence of hitting with the SD9VE.
 
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I bought a p250 full size with large grips in May, it is my nightstand gun. Many complain about the DAO and the trigger reset but me, I love it. There is no question that at the range you need to learn to stage the trigger, no problem for me. The most important thing about a self defense gun is reliability and the P250 and. P320 are as reliable as you're gonna find.
 
Yes the P250 will be reliable.
So does the SD9VE as it allways works. I not even managed to limp wrist it even if I tried hard.

But I have an Feeling this SD9VE is not the most accurate gun (not even Close than the Revolver is). Maybe the longer sight radius of the P250 full helps make the difference.

How accurate you find the P250? How much does the Trigger reach of your large grips measure (if you may measure with an caliper)?
 
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Dear all,

I realised my unhappyness with the SD9VE is due to it's light weigth.
I took off today the "real estate" I put on the gun and immediately could not hit anything at 45 meters.
THE GUN ITSELF IT TO LIGHT (22 oz). With the "real estate" on it shoots well and somewhat accurate at 45 meters.

So is the SIG Sauer P250 with it's 29 oz.
As well the Beretta FS92 and Taurus PT99 are to light with their 34 oz. I handled one Taurus PT99 once at the gun shop and they felt light as well.

So I ended up with the 1911 with their 38 oz of weight.
Only their Prices range from 700 US$ to mostly 1300 US$ which mans they end up here for about 2000 to 2500 US$.

Maybe the Taurus 1911 is the most viable Option.

I realised the weight is the issue since my Pietta SAA 357 mag Revolver is 36 oz and that gun shoots well and accurate.

So the SIG P250 is out as well as are FS92 and other light weigth guns.
Maybe the 34 oz are Close enough to the comfortable 36 oz (Revolver) so the Beretta FS92 and Taurus PT99 are an Option as well (a bit on the light side though).

What you guys say about the Taurus PT1911 in 9mm Luger? or the Beretta FS92 and Taurus PT99?
 
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The Beretta 92 series and the corresponding Taurus pistols are very big pistols. One of the reason the US military is replacing the platform is the difficulty small handed shooters have with them. Back in the 1990s the military adopted the Sig P228 as the M11, in part for shooters with smaller hands.

Other than that, the Beretta 92 is a fantastic pistol.

I don't have experience with the Taurus 1911, but the cheaper 1911s will not have tight tolerances, and thus not be very accurate. I have several 1911s in 9mm, and I think the platform is awesome. It works great with shooter with small hands, though you may have to swap out the trigger for a short trigger and replace the grips with thinner grips. Each of these is easy to do.

You seem like a guy who can tinker. A Taurus 9mm may not be a bad choice. My general recommendation is a Springfield Range Officer or Mil-spec as the cheapest pistol with decent quality. Like all Taurus products, the PT1911 can be hit or miss.

The 1911 is a long term platform. In 100 years, parts are likely to be available for them.
 
I traded into a P250 and hated the double action only trigger!

I would much prefer the S&W SD, but that's my personal preference.
 
The striker fire is esentially and Double Action Only System as well. Just not with an hammer/exposed hammer.

Striker fire Systems are not the "max anybody would desire on earth" neighter.
Part of the SD9VE Problem beside it is to light is it's heavy 9 lbs Trigger. If your grips do not fit well then that on top becomes a Problem.
I may have developed a flinch due to the light weight of the Plastik gun.

My SAA Revolver has an very nice Trigger an I can hit something with that Thing. This Pietta 357 mag SAA 5.5" Barrel Revolver has 36 oz.

Best bet is I get an Taurus PT92 9mm pistol which has 34 oz. That is Close to my Revolver for comfort of Shooting.
This PT92 9x19 has an DA/SA System. So I most likely cock allways the hammer manually before Shooting to get the SA light Trigger and shorter Trigger reach. The grips of this gun are to big but as Long as I can hit something.
The PT92 has an fixed Barrel which may be the secret it is accurate.

I believe the tilting Barrel Systems of John Moses Browning are inherently inaccurate. The sights are on an moving part and the Barrel is another moving part. Problems are assured with that. Reliability is there and soft recoil as well but accuracy suffers IMHO.
Most accurate are Revolvers because the sights are on the very Barrel and nothing moves there.
The fixed Barrel System of the PT92 is for sure helping a lot in accuracy.

I have nothing against DAO guns but then the grips have to fit perfectly which I can say for me does only the Walther PK380.

Best accuracy you may get from the Luger P'08 since the sights are attached to an fixed Barrel. So nor the sights move nor the Barrel.

On an striker fired gun I never would dare to have an round in the chamber.
With the SIG P250 as DAO yes. As well with the PT92 it is perfectly safe to have an round in the chamber and I believe as well in the 1911 (lower the hammer and if you use it cock it quickly).
 
I think you're conflating the "revolver-like" action of a DA/SA auto with your SA Pietta. Any DA/SA auto will have a very long trigger reach in DA. Based on your small hands, this will be an issue.

A small correction: the PT92 does not have a fixed barrel. Rather, it locks on a wedge beneath the barrel. The barrel is removable from the frame. The 92 series pistols are accurate.

Finally, the 1911 has been proven safe to carry cocked and locked. It's very foolish to 1) try to decock a 1911 with a round in the chamber, since there is usually no trigger block 2) carry the gun with all of the safety mechanisms bypassed 3) dramatically increase the amount of time to bring the pistol into action 4) risk an ND bringing it into action if your thumb slips off the hammer 5) risk inducing a malfunction if the trigger slips off your thumb and the hammer catches on the half-cock notch.

If you're going to carry/use a single action pistol with the hammer down, carry your Pietta. It's designed to do this.
 
I am unfamiliar with the 1911.

Why you say <<since there is usually no Trigger block>>.
Well put an round in the 1911 (slide rack) then ride the hammer down like in an Single Action Army Revolver and put the safety on.
Will that not work?

Jame yeager on Youtube says 1911 <<they just don't hold up. 1911's have frecuent part breakage and highly mantainance guns. Difficult to build and therefore unreliable due to parts not Fitting>>
 
No, that will not work. The 1911 safety can only be activated when the hammer is cocked. In a single action pistol, the safety serves no purpose when the hammer isn't cocked. The safety also locked the slide closed, so that the gun can't be jostled out of battery.

The 1911 is from a different era. It does require more maintenance than modern pistols. Yeager's comments apply mostly to organizations that would require skilled pistolsmiths to keep their fleet of guns operating.

Think of it this way. A Glock can go 100,000+ rounds without maintenance more than routine spring changes. A 1911 will go 10,000 to 20,000 rounds with routine spring changes, and will need a rebuild. But, due to the fitted parts, the 1911 can be made very accurate. It depends on what you want. Do you want a fleet of Toyota Corollas for your guys to drive around, or do you want one badass Corvette (pistol) that you modified so that YOU can drive (shoot) it the best?

If you are a VERY high volume shooter, maybe a Glock is better. Though I argue that if you're shooting $15,000 of ammo per year, a $700 rebuild of your pistol is meaningless.

The bottom line for me is that though I own more 1911s than Glocks, I do own quite a few Glocks. I shoot and train on the Glocks for business, but I wouldn't have any problems using a 1911 (other than the weight, which for you is a positive).

I enjoy shooting my 1911s more than my Glocks.
 
Now that I've re-read your question about the trigger block, I see that I didn't answer it in my previous post. Your Pietta has a transfer bar, which slides up and down depending on whether the trigger is pulled. You can safely drop the hammer on a loaded chamber by pulling the trigger and holding the hammer back. When you release the trigger, but are still dropping the hammer, the transfer bar slides down, so even if the hammer slips, the gun won't fire IF YOUR FINGER IS OFF THE TRIGGER.

A 1911, barring Colt Series 80 pistols, doesn't operate this way. There is no firing pin block. If you pull the trigger to rid the hammer down on a loaded chamber, if the hammer slips, it's supposed to be caught on the half-cock notch. Don't rely on this. If it misses the half-cock notch, the gun fires, regardless if you stopped pulling the trigger. Further, the pistol was designed with two safeties; the thumb safety and the grip safety. Decocking the pistol by pulling the trigger deactivates both the thumb safety and the grip safety.

1911s are safely carried with a loaded chamber, the pistol cocked, and the safety activated. Do this. Trying to get change this invites negligent discharges.

Just chamber a round, apply the thumb safety, and holster. You now have two safeties at work.
 
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