Sig p365 with safety . . .
- Thread starter Prof Young
- Start date
For a long time safeties were the norm. Did everyone using one forget how to disengage it when the moment came? Maybe, maybe it wasn't an insignificant percentage that did have issues. Certainly the prevailing wisdom these days is to not have a safety (it's treated as Gospel by some). Sadly my carbine and shotgun still have safeties. While I will agree there's a big difference in disengaging a safety on a long gun when moving out of a ready position as compared to shooting after drawing from concealment, I do have to wonder if it is as big of deal as it is made to be. Many gun owners I see shoot have basic marksmanship issues, much less the safety. One less thing is always one less thing, but it's not the only thing.
In 20+ courses I haven't seen one person yet forget to disnegage their safety if that was their primary weapon (people that borrowed pistols with safeties were another story, however). Obviously drills and even force on force isn't the real thing, but seeing as I don't want to pay someone to shoot at me for real it's about as close to that as some people can come. We can poo poo training, but in my experience and the experience of others with a lot of experience training does matter and there's a reason for it, safety or not. Is it a guarantee? Absolutely not, but by that token nothing is and someone could argue our marksmanship abilities will also go out the window and none of us will be able to make any hits so there's no point practicing. The goal is to make training behavior the default reaction.
As I said above, I don't care what someone else does. I also don't feel the need to justify why I carry a certain way (I carry a Glock for the record). It sounds a bit high and mighty, but I say it because the number of people I've seen that seem to feel that need to tell others isn't insignificant. To a point it makes sense. These are decisions that we've convinced ourselves could cost us our lives and it's logically to have strong reasons. But really, I have no intention of being in "your" gunfight. If someone thinks the safety proves no issue and he or she wants one, go for it, and vice versa.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
In 20+ courses I haven't seen one person yet forget to disnegage their safety if that was their primary weapon (people that borrowed pistols with safeties were another story, however). Obviously drills and even force on force isn't the real thing, but seeing as I don't want to pay someone to shoot at me for real it's about as close to that as some people can come. We can poo poo training, but in my experience and the experience of others with a lot of experience training does matter and there's a reason for it, safety or not. Is it a guarantee? Absolutely not, but by that token nothing is and someone could argue our marksmanship abilities will also go out the window and none of us will be able to make any hits so there's no point practicing. The goal is to make training behavior the default reaction.
As I said above, I don't care what someone else does. I also don't feel the need to justify why I carry a certain way (I carry a Glock for the record). It sounds a bit high and mighty, but I say it because the number of people I've seen that seem to feel that need to tell others isn't insignificant. To a point it makes sense. These are decisions that we've convinced ourselves could cost us our lives and it's logically to have strong reasons. But really, I have no intention of being in "your" gunfight. If someone thinks the safety proves no issue and he or she wants one, go for it, and vice versa.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
Last edited:
Tunnelrat said:
Back when I thought the 1911 was the only pistol, the thumb safety was never a problem. It was swept down as I pointed the muzzle at the target, and swept up as soon as I came off the target. I can't forget the first time I shot a Glock mostly because it was wildly disconcerting to me having no thumb safety. I got over that, but it took time.
A 356XL with thumb safety would be interesting.
Cosmodragoon
New member
You've got to carry what you are comfortable with. Of course, there are reasons why some of us feel the way we do about manual safeties. It's at least worth considering as your comfort level evolves.
I have two problems with manual safeties on carry guns. First, it's complicated. Look at posts 10, 14, and 15. The fact that there was a misunderstanding at all isn't uncommon. There are different kinds of manual safeties. People have different ways of treating them. There isn't a clear standard such as we have for "trigger safety".
That said, the trigger is the one necessary control on modern firearms. You always have to use that one thing. You can tailor your interface with that one thing via a heavier trigger, double action, SA/DA, etc. Once you add a manual safety switch though, you've got two things. That's double the amount of things between you and shots on target in a bad situation that could develop quickly and chaotically.
Think of it this way. You might have someone or something on top of you. You might be pressed against a surface. You might be tangled up. You might be injured. Your thumb might be broken or your hand might be slick. It might not be ideal to need twice the fingers or twice the time to operate two things.
Those are some serious physical possibilities. Getting back to complications, someone with the second thing on their gun needs to remember to operate that second thing regardless of shock, heart rate, adrenaline, etc. I know everyone here trains enough that they'd never have this problem but every once in a while, somebody in the real world does.
Sure, you could just leave it off. Is there any possibility that it accidentally gets turned on? I don't just mean during normal life. How about under those rough possibilities mentioned above?
I have two problems with manual safeties on carry guns. First, it's complicated. Look at posts 10, 14, and 15. The fact that there was a misunderstanding at all isn't uncommon. There are different kinds of manual safeties. People have different ways of treating them. There isn't a clear standard such as we have for "trigger safety".
That said, the trigger is the one necessary control on modern firearms. You always have to use that one thing. You can tailor your interface with that one thing via a heavier trigger, double action, SA/DA, etc. Once you add a manual safety switch though, you've got two things. That's double the amount of things between you and shots on target in a bad situation that could develop quickly and chaotically.
Think of it this way. You might have someone or something on top of you. You might be pressed against a surface. You might be tangled up. You might be injured. Your thumb might be broken or your hand might be slick. It might not be ideal to need twice the fingers or twice the time to operate two things.
Those are some serious physical possibilities. Getting back to complications, someone with the second thing on their gun needs to remember to operate that second thing regardless of shock, heart rate, adrenaline, etc. I know everyone here trains enough that they'd never have this problem but every once in a while, somebody in the real world does.
Sure, you could just leave it off. Is there any possibility that it accidentally gets turned on? I don't just mean during normal life. How about under those rough possibilities mentioned above?
rt11002003
New member
I finally decided to buy a SIG p365. Tried both safety and without. I seem to have problems these days when the safety is also on the right side. Guess I don't hold the pistol properly. In some cases it affects the trigger pull, ie. my CZ Tactical Sport. Decided to go without a safety on my new p365. Have several pistols with safety and several without. Forces me to check the pistol in use at the time. Hope circumstances are never such that the small fraction of time to check makes a difference.
chris in va
New member
Won't need it after a few mag loadings. The springs settle in nicely.
If one person likes a safety, great. If another person doesn't like safeties, fantastic. There really isn't a need to justify your decision OR to be critical of someone else's if it is different. Let it go.
I like safeties. I have guns without them though and it isn't a deal breaker. Every gun is different. I do my best to become deeply familiar with all of them.
I like that the 365 allows the slide to be racked with the safety engaged. My M&P22c has the same feature. My 9mm however does not.
I like safeties. I have guns without them though and it isn't a deal breaker. Every gun is different. I do my best to become deeply familiar with all of them.
I like that the 365 allows the slide to be racked with the safety engaged. My M&P22c has the same feature. My 9mm however does not.
Carl the Floor Walker
Moderator
All my small guns I now carry are DAO. Moved away from light striker fired triggers and never looked back. Smooth, deliberate, in control all the way through. Before, would use a safety and trained to use one. If I were to get a light trigger again, it would be with a safety. Each to his own.
Cosmodragoon
New member
This is solid advice. You might not need to watch a few hundred but if you use YouTube, it is worth subscribing. You get to see real defensive encounters caught on tape. That means seeing just how chaotic and unpredictable real events can be. It also means seeing situations where the good guys don't always win. (Viewer discretion is advised.)
John Correia does a nice job on the commentary. Having the reality check paired up with free advice from a decent trainer makes this one of the best free resources out there.
Another valuable thing this channel offers is a goldmine of concrete examples for the debate on "gun control". If someone in your life doubts that real danger exists, or that responsible gun ownership can save lives, or that civilians occasionally do face circumstances in which their safety is reliant upon capacity; you can share a dose of reality with them.
223 shooter
New member
Exactly! Last Friday I finally gave in and picked up a P365 - I bought the non-safety version.
There have been a number of times at the relative calm at the range target shooting where I have started squeezing the trigger only to realize my safety was on.
In a high stress , defend my life kind of scenario I think I am better off with non manual safety guns.
claydoctor
New member
I waited and waited for the 365 to bring out a safety version. Looks like I'm going to have to do the same thing with the XL, which feels better balanced than the 365 and comes with the flat trigger, which I had to add to my 365. The non-safety version is fine if you are confident you will be the only one ever in contact with the gun but if you keep it in your console, like I do or sometimes in a bedside drawer, you never know who might accidentally find it and the safety gives me added peace of mind.
I think if I had concerns that someone might "accidentally" find it in those locations I'd find some way to secure it that goes beyond a manual safety.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
claydoctor
New member
Which would make it even slower to bring into action than a manual safety
Yeah it would. But who exactly is slowed down by a manual safety? It sure as heck isn't a kid. If that's who we're stopping from "accidentally" using the firearm, then either carry on your person in the first place or a quick access box takes maybe a second for a simplex lock.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
wild cat mccane
New member
Of all the years buying guns for hiking, collecting, and shooting, I've met just one person who's run into a bear and one person (neighbor police officer) who has shot someone.
I'm pretty sure I'm not going to live my life based off zero chance fears from shooting videos. My chance and your chance of using your gun for defense in real life, even once, is zero.
Do I still carry? sure. But yeah, if you just watch video after video of shootings, that isn't real life.
I'm pretty sure I'm not going to live my life based off zero chance fears from shooting videos. My chance and your chance of using your gun for defense in real life, even once, is zero.
Do I still carry? sure. But yeah, if you just watch video after video of shootings, that isn't real life.