It's your friend's call - no skin off the OP's back. I don't get worked up about what other folks do, unless it somehow impacts what I want to buy. He could have walked away over spending another $5, although if he did that, I wouldn't invest much time trying to help the guy again.
Should I stop supporting a LGS
- Thread starter Metal god
- Start date
Double Naught Spy
New member
The funny thing is the gun cost $759 and my buddy asked what kinda a deal can you give me ? The store owner with out blinking says I can do $759 . Hmm grumble ok I'll take it lets do some paper work . The the store owner then states there is a new law in CA that requires my buddy passes a gun safety test before buying . It will be an extra cost of $30 . My buddy says I'm not going to spend another 30 bucks as well . What does the store owner do ? shrugs and says OK and puts the rifle back on the shelf . WOW he gave up a $800 sale for $30.
It is an $800 sale. It isn't $800 of profit. He gave your buddy the best deal and your buddy agreed to it. The deal was for the rifle. Why should he lose and additional $30 of profit after your buddy agreed to the price?
It is an $800 sale. It isn't $800 of profit. He gave your buddy the best deal and your buddy agreed to it. The deal was for the rifle. Why should he lose and additional $30 of profit after your buddy agreed to the price?
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Correct, Grasshopper.HiBC said:
Or, as a Zen teacher explained it to a class I attended, "What is, is. It is your resistance to what is that is the source of your unhappiness."
Maybe this will be more clear:
You should change your relationship with both.
LGS are not friends, enemies, etc....they are business partners. If they offer the right product at the right price, do more business with them. If they don't, move on or alter your relationship. Tell them when they do right and when they do wrong. It's ok. Be willing to say, "I have to disagree. A light barrel will heat up and string shots." If he calls you out, ask for a money back guarantee! Nothing shuts up the opinion leakers up like that. He should be willing to put his money where his mouth is.
With your buddy, ask him why he asked your opinion, if he was willing to be swayed by whatever was in stock. Also, as a resident of CA, he didn't know about the $30 mandatory testing? You need to better understand the role of a friend. Sometimes friends ask what to buy...then buy something else...then learn the hard way what you know...some friends need a hard lesson or 2!
You should change your relationship with both.
LGS are not friends, enemies, etc....they are business partners. If they offer the right product at the right price, do more business with them. If they don't, move on or alter your relationship. Tell them when they do right and when they do wrong. It's ok. Be willing to say, "I have to disagree. A light barrel will heat up and string shots." If he calls you out, ask for a money back guarantee! Nothing shuts up the opinion leakers up like that. He should be willing to put his money where his mouth is.
With your buddy, ask him why he asked your opinion, if he was willing to be swayed by whatever was in stock. Also, as a resident of CA, he didn't know about the $30 mandatory testing? You need to better understand the role of a friend. Sometimes friends ask what to buy...then buy something else...then learn the hard way what you know...some friends need a hard lesson or 2!
Never said he should , just don't see why he didn't . Really the test cost him nothing except a piece of paper . Sure you could say it cost his time but I've already addressed that .
Not even worth an answer
Why would I offer to pay any part of something I completely disagreed with
Running a business is not lost on me . In fact I own a business my self all be it construction . I do get the point . I also get that the store owner does not know who we are and how many guns we buy . If he did he would have cut the cost in half just to keep us coming back . In the last three year I've bought 14 firearms . all from the same store . My buddy has bought almost the same amount from multiple stores . The store owner would want my buddy as a customer . I buy an XD9 my buddy gets a Browning high power . I get a shield to carry , he gets a Sig . I talk about getting a 336 , he gets a custom $1800 357 lever gun . My point is he buys High quality high dollar guns . That's a customer any store owner should want .
I'm not even sure why it appears I'm trying to defend my self . I did nothing wrong . He asked for my help and I told him what he should buy . The $1,800 Savage/Vortex combo . We moved away from that almost as fast as I said it . We then went point by point as to what he wanted for the price range he was willing to pay . We researched each point or discussed it at length and came up with a rifle that fit all we talked about . It's not like I said buy the Savage and your stupid if you don't then when at the store he buys a Teka NOT THE SAVAGE and I get mad . I did not push any thing on him . I personally would not buy a 700 but it fit the bill for his needs at the time so I recommended it . The 243 he was set on really narrowed the search though . As far as heavy barrels anyways .
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Based on what others have posted in this thread, it seems the LGS was offering the rifle at an excellent price. If that price was barely enough to make a fair profit, why would he cut the price IN HALF and sell it at a considerable loss just in the hope the customer (who doesn't have any way to know that the FFL lost money on the deal) might come back -- and expect to buy at below dealer cost again?Metal God said:
Really? I wouldn't want anybody as a customer who expects me to sell every gun at a loss, and then eat the cost of the state-required test on top of that.
As a contractor, you must have heard the story about the new painting contractor who opened up shop and was getting all the work because he consistently under-bid all the established shops. Finally, a couple of the old hands ran into the owner of the new company at a trade show and they asked him how he managed to under-bid everybody, all the time.
"Simple," he said. "I take every job at a loss and I make it up on volume."
That seems to be what you want the LGS to do.
Ehhh, I don't like unanticipated add-on fees either. $5 for the background check - I get it. Sales tax - I get it. $30 shooting fee - ok, that may be a state law, but that could have and should have been explained when they were talking bottom line prices. I might have walked too, especially if the test doesn't really cost the store anything but a few minutes of time.
I don't pay for "dealer prep" when I buy a car either. I talk bottom line, and the dealership can figure in their own costs of getting the car out the door to a paying customer.
Reading between the lines, it sounds like the store offered a "good deal" to the customer with the intention of recouping some of that good deal in an add-on fee.
I don't pay for "dealer prep" when I buy a car either. I talk bottom line, and the dealership can figure in their own costs of getting the car out the door to a paying customer.
Reading between the lines, it sounds like the store offered a "good deal" to the customer with the intention of recouping some of that good deal in an add-on fee.
You meant that he should, whether you "said" it in so many words.
Because he's "your buddy"
You wanted a perfect stranger to do it, and you would have been helping your buddy get what HE wanted.
It's exactly like that
You got mad because he ignored your advice
It would appear the owner has more invested than the "cost of a sheet of paper":
http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/fscinfo
The fee ($25) is set by the state:
http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/fscpfaqs#7G
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Snyper : The test cost him nothing but a piece of paper in the course of a sale . He hands you the test when your done , he grades it . All could be done while other paper work is being filled out . CA sets the price so store owners don't charge $100 . I completely understand the $25 fee if you go to an instructor and that's all he is doing for you or a store for that matter . This is the third time I've tried to make this point . If some don't get what I'm trying to say , there's not much more I can do .
Aguila Blanca :
OK , maaaybee I should not have said half
I thought my point was going to be understood . I have many long time customers that get either better prices or things included at no cost because the amount of work I've done for them . So when I said (I also get that the store owner does not know who we are and how many guns we buy ) I meant just that . I understand he does not know if he does just a little for us he will get much more in return . I can't think of any job I've done in the last 27 years I did not do at least one thing extra for no cost or close to it . I often will only charge the cost of material seeing how I'm already there and it will take VERY little effort to do . OOPS just explained a fourth time why I think it would not have been no big deal for him to throw in the cost of the test .
Aguila Blanca :
OK , maaaybee I should not have said half
I thought my point was going to be understood . I have many long time customers that get either better prices or things included at no cost because the amount of work I've done for them . So when I said (I also get that the store owner does not know who we are and how many guns we buy ) I meant just that . I understand he does not know if he does just a little for us he will get much more in return . I can't think of any job I've done in the last 27 years I did not do at least one thing extra for no cost or close to it . I often will only charge the cost of material seeing how I'm already there and it will take VERY little effort to do . OOPS just explained a fourth time why I think it would not have been no big deal for him to throw in the cost of the test .The state sets the fees.
It doesn't say the dealer should pay.
It doesn't say they should do it at "cost"
It does say they have to be certified to give the tests
Also, you obviously ignored the link I posted which explains the fees:
http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs#29
The portion you keep saying "cost the dealer a piece of paper" appears to cost the customer $1.00
The DROS fee of $25 that includes the background check is separate from the FSC test fee of $25 . I just did all this my self two weeks ago . I was charged $25 for the DROS and another $25 for the test when I bought my 1911 . The test certificate last five years and has no restrictions on the amount of firearms you can buy in that time . How ever you must DROS every purchase . I believe you can put up to 99 firearms on one $30 DROS .
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I can't help but wonder if the guy who wanted to make the buy got a lot more guidence, research, and direction than he really wanted. You seem to know a lot more details of exactly what we wanted and what he would be using it for than he did. maybe there is a communication issue with your friend. Perhaps he wanted a little advice on making a decision from someone he perceived as knowledgable, and perheps he felt you were making the selection for him instead of helping him to make it. How many times do people say "don't buy a gun for your wife, GF, or buddy. Let them choose, because if they don't like it, they won't shoot it".
You don't have a right to be upset with your buddy. He might be upset with you for taking over what he just wanted your opinion on.
Unless you absolutely know exactly how much profit is made on the specific sale, you have no right to grumble over what additional price breaks they did not give. They probably made under $100 on that gun, and possibly considerably less. If you paid by credit card, another 2% off the price tage went to the processing company. Margins on guns are small. They make more from selling ammo and supplies. Typically, new merchandise is not negotiable, are typically competitive, because wholesale cost is easy to find. USED guns are negotiable.
Also, if it is required by law, I doubt the store gets the $30 for the test.
You don't have a right to be upset with your buddy. He might be upset with you for taking over what he just wanted your opinion on.
Unless you absolutely know exactly how much profit is made on the specific sale, you have no right to grumble over what additional price breaks they did not give. They probably made under $100 on that gun, and possibly considerably less. If you paid by credit card, another 2% off the price tage went to the processing company. Margins on guns are small. They make more from selling ammo and supplies. Typically, new merchandise is not negotiable, are typically competitive, because wholesale cost is easy to find. USED guns are negotiable.
Also, if it is required by law, I doubt the store gets the $30 for the test.
Wow, if I were your buddy, I'd be looking for a new friend..
I'm honestly shocked anyone on this forum thinks you have a case here..
He asked you for advice. Period. Stop.
When someone asks you for advice, that doesn't mean you OWN them and all their decisions from that point on.
You're not his mother and I'm sure he's a big boy.
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Evan Thomas
Inactive
I don't think there's much more to say about this... at least not usefully.
Evan Thomas
Inactive
I'm reopening this at the OP's request, but play nice, everyone.
Based on what your saying, you did your part helping your friend. You don't have any control over what your friend says or does. I don't know that I would stop supporting my local gun store because they wouldn't cut me a deal. They have a business to run & I understand that.