Should I just take this bull?

Status
Not open for further replies.
I just read this thread and I guess I will have to put in .02.I am on SS and live on a very minamal amount of money.Anything large that is stolen is going to be very hard to replace(or impossible).The law needs to be changed.If it was changed to make it legal to shoot a thief then the thief is making the choice to risk his live for the items he is stealing.This is the way it should be.What is mine is mine and no one elses.To say otherwise is to condone stealing.Before any person says a radio is not worth a persons life I am not makeing that choice the thief is.He will know the consequences of his actions and by doing it accepts them
Bob
 
SigMan, while its true that its illegal for you to use deadly force against thugs who are "only" stealing your property, this does not mean that you must stand idle and allow them to do it. You must look at these situations as an escalation in the use of force. You must be reasonable and prudent, that's the standard. There is no reason why you cannot call the police, then confront the thugs in order to prevent them from stealing your property. Begin with verbal commands. The ball is now in their court. They control what happens to them from then on. If they refuse to cease their actions after your verbal commands, then use non-lethal force to stop their actions. If they then choose to escalate to the next level by attacking you after your legitamate use of non-lethal force, the moment that you reasonably believe that you are in danger of death or grevious bodily harm, you may then use deadly force. remember, the deadly force is not to prevent them from stealing your property, it is to save your life.

This is how the police deal with these situations. It's risky, but you have the absolute right to protect what is yours using reasonable force if necessary; unless of course you live in some socialist paradise venue. If that's the case, my advice is for you to vote with your feet and move to Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Arizona, Oklahoma, Texas, Lousiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, Kentucky, Indiana, W. Virginia, Vermont, New Hampshire, or Arkansas.
 
Lets face it folks no matter what we do or the "LAW" does there will always be ASS-----s in this world! Crime will never completely go away, it has been around since the dawn of mankind! I would hope that there are enough of us out there, especially us with weapons! Who can understand that the loss material objects (replaceable or not) will never justify the taking of a HUMAN life, even an ASSW----S. Yes we have all been victims, and yes it really sucks! But to risk your own life by trying to APPREHEND someone stealing from a car or any other non life threatening crime is really BAD judgement for MANY reasons. The main one being your LIFE! Let the COPS do that, they get paid for it after all! Not much $$$ all things considered. You have nothing to gain by trying to detain someone from being an ASS and commiting PUNK crimes...



------------------
SURE SHOT
 
Yeah, its risky to defend your property. But life won't be too plesant when word reaches the street that you possessions can be had by whoever wants to take them with no fear of resistance, either from you or the police. Why wouldn't the thugs steal everything you own; everything that you spend your life working for?

No its not smart to use deadly force to stop someone from carrying off your radio. Its also not smart to allow them to steal it either. There is an entire continuum of options between verbal commands and deadly force. Deadly force should only be used against an attacker for the purpose of defending the victim's life. That doesn't mean that you let the garbage carry off everything that you own just because you are afraid to stop them.
 
In NC, we cannot use deadly force to protect property. No law says we cannot hold someone at gunpoint till the 5-0 arrives.

Chances are, some punks are not going to know their laws/rights well enough to know that you cannot legally and justifiably shoot them over property. Hold the gun on them, if they stay, it even more so proves their stupidity, it then run, holster your piece and beat the living crap out of him, then he cannot run... that is not lethal force and non-lethal force is authorized to detain a person who has been witnessed committing a crime.

By all means call the police over trying to confront anyone and youwill live to see another day.

The issue here is not that you want to save the $500 deductable or whatever, it is a matter of principle. Some punk is VIOLATING your property just to make a few dollars.

This happened to me about a month or so ago... During hurricane whatever back a while ago in NC, that night when the power went out, the thieves attempted to steal my FACTORY honda brand CD player. Not only is this player useless to them outside of my car, but it will only work in honda's even if they could get it to work.

Needless to say the F***ers falied. So what did I wake up to? A car full of water, debri, leaves, one broekn driver door window and one severly f***ed up dash. All busted up and worthless. I had had my car for about 3 months at this point...

I almost would have felt better would they have stolen the cd player, at least then I could sleep with the knowledge knowing they had stolen something that was useless to them, but instead, they basically just messed my stuff up...

I have been on watch for a while now, (window fixed, interior still messed up) and they have not returned. My neighbor is a LEO for the city and this has happened about 10 times in the past 2 months here, everyone in my complex is looking to nail this guy. You have to feel sorry for these people though, we will be paying for them in one way or another. Either through our insurance premiums, welfare, drug rehab, or prison. When one $.25 gold dot would end a lot of trouble for many people.

Just my opinion, but I have been in your shoes and I know EXACTLY how you feel. It was almost like they had taken my wallet directly off of myself... One day, they will get theirs, maybe not from me, but from someone...

NCglocker
 
TSM,
I guess the question that should be asked is how far are you willing to put yourself out to save your property? In many states, presenting a weapon to someone(for whatever reason) puts you in a situation where you may be as scrutinized by LEO as the perps themselves. This is a**backwards I know but is a reality. I would suggest contacting the LEO's in your area, gun clubs, gun organizations, any people whom you can get accurate information regarding the legalities of your unfortunate situation.

I would also suggest contacting your local District/Prosecuting Attorney's office. Ask them questions about what the legal standard is in YOUR community, and where you stand regarding Lethal Force, or more likely, presenting a firearm on another person. I feel these people wouldn't mind spending a couple of minutes explaining it to you.

Someone also suggested starting a neighborhood watch group. I would strongly recommend this. I work in a maximum security juvenile correctional facility. My experience in working with thieves, is they are hyper-aware of communities/areas that are lax and easy to burglarize. Make it hard for them to be successful. This response is labor intensive and quite a bit of work. If you can get neighbors to see that they are probably going to be "next" I think you will at least see some people in with you.

I too am a victim of a car burglary. I was hiking, armed at the time with my Glock 21, for 2 days. I came back to find my truck literally GUTTED with my dash in pieces. I was HOT. And when I think about it now, I'm glad I was not there. If I were, I would have killed them, and probably gone to prison for a long time. No $400 stereo, tools, and various items are worth me sitting in a prioson cell.

Just my thoughts. BigMike
 
There are alot of old sayings in prisons that have one common theme. They go something like this: "If you grant me license to help myself to your cigaretts, tomorrow I'm coming for your (personal items such as chips, candy, books, ect.). If you let me get away with that, the next day I'm comming for your ass.

In prison or out of prison, the same principles apply when dealing with thugs.
 
This is a pretty amazing thread. I personally can't imagine how ungodly difficult my life would be after I shot anybody even with appropriate justification. Don't get me wrong. If any member of my family (or a friend, etc.) was threatened with death or bodily harm, I hope I would have the guts and ability to react with the proper level of force (deadly if necessary). BUT I hope like hell my head would allow me to limit such a response to that VERY limited type of situation--one that very few if any of us will ever encounter (thank God).

I don't really give a rip what the law in Texas (or any other state) is -- above and beyond what is required for bona fide self defense (or the defense of those in your care). Self defense is permissible in ALL juridictions--even though you may have an ungodly legal bill even if the circumstances were perfectly justifiable.

I would predict that the overwhelming majority of you have never fired at another human being and have no idea whatsoever what it would be like if you did. (Well, possibly a few with military experience.) I would strongly encourage you to think long and hard about this issue (as any gun owner should)--but by all means, don't take my word for it. Talk to some of our law enforcement brethren regarding how shooting a perpetrator has ended many a noble career because the law abiding cop has mentally crumbled. And let's just all pray that we are NEVER in that situation. If you can't share that prayer, what could I possibly have to say to you? Other than good luck, of course. Life must be hard as hell without a brain.

[This message has been edited by MLT (edited November 09, 1999).]
 
Time to think outside the box guys'...

How about small ballons filled with a bright latex paint. Couple of well place shots and you can tell the police, "Yes, they were leaning in the car and I nailed them on the ass with bright pink paint."

or how about shooting them with a paintball gun in the posterior...

Your greatest weapon is on top of your shoulders. Use it.

------------------
Peace through superior firepower...
Keith

If the 2nd is antiquated, what will happen to the rest.
"the right to keep and bear arms."
 
I've been in and out of this "Oh, you just couldn't kill somebody over mere property!" argument for several decades.

Well, how did I acquire that property? I worked to earn the after-tax money to pay for it. Did I or did I not, then, invest some of my time, a part of my life in order to get that money? Do I have any other capital but my time, the years of my life?

When you steal my property, you thus steal part of my life. By your action, you make the statement that a portion of my life is valueless--and by extension, that my whole life is valueless, is contemptible in your eyes.

Tell me my life is valueless, that I am contemptible? Hmmm. Not smart.

As usual,

Art
 
Get a removable radio
Stay indoors
Lights off
Sidearm of choice on hip
Pellet rifle to the back of the head
Repeat as necessary
Do not tell anyone

Anything else is just letting your hindbrain control your forebrain, and you will regret it.
 
If you decide to shoot them, be very careful not to say anything rude or offensive to them. You dont want to be accused of a hate crime. If you cant say anything nice, dont say anything at all.

------------------
 
NCglocker, I did'nt think there was a law against holding a person at gun-point in a robbery in NC. Thanks for sharing that infomation, because where in the vicinity where I live there has been about 3 robberies since last January and we live in the country. I would never kill nobody for trying to steal my stuff, but it would advise not to try breaking in again if they are staring down a gun.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top