Should I be able to do this with a stock G19?

I've been shooting over 50 years now and while you can pick up some good pointers from trainers, they can not make you a world class shooter, that is up to you. Practice more so than instruction will improve what you can do, training from others can only take you so far, but training yourself will take you all the way. Pile up the brass and pay attention to what works for you, so yes you can do that with a Glock 19, you just need to train yourself, any instructor is not going to be pulling that trigger FOR YOU, that's your job.


Good Luck and stay safe.
Jim

I shoot IDPA and shooting fast and accurate is not all that hard. But it does take practice.
 
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Practice more so than instruction will improve what you can do...
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That assumes you are starting from a good foundation. Practice starting from a bad foundation can actually be counterproductive.

It is certainly true that instruction won't make a person into a world class shooter without practice, but it's also true that practice needs to be focused properly and based on a solid foundation in order to be productive.
 
JohnKSa said:
That assumes you are starting from a good foundation. Practice starting from a bad foundation can actually be counterproductive....
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And that is an important, basic truth.

Practice does not make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect. And practice makes permanent. So if you practice doing something wrong or badly over and over, you will become an expert at doing it wrong or badly.

Good instruction makes sure that you know what to practice and how to practice it effectively.
 
and on the learning end of things, how do you sort out the experts who can teach you what you want to learn in an efficient manner from the duds who take your hard earned money, but don't or can't teach you well?

by their resume? they are all impressive.
references? now i have to find someone who needed to learn the same things i want to learn, and was taught them well by someone.

there is no industry standard of accreditation. but lots of guys/gals that are quite willing to cash your check and help you burn up your ammo over a day or four.
 
...references? now i have to find someone who needed to learn the same things i want to learn, and was taught them well by someone.
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There are these things called internet firearm forums. :D A person can post a question about an instructor and, within days, get replies from people all over the country who have received instruction from that particular instructor.

Or, a person could post about finding a good instructor and get references from many different people who have had good experiences with various instructors.
 
I've been shooting over 50 years now and while you can pick up some good pointers from trainers, they can not make you a world class shooter, that is up to you. Practice more so than instruction will improve what you can do, training from others can only take you so far, but training yourself will take you all the way. Pile up the brass and pay attention to what works for you, so yes you can do that with a Glock 19, you just need to train yourself, any instructor is not going to be pulling that trigger FOR YOU, that's your job.
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This.^

After you have a good foundation in the basics, it is up to you to learn what works best for you. Bob Vogel is awesome, but if I were to try forever to perfectly emulate his grip I would fail. My hands aren't big enough. After you learn what you are trying to accomplish with your grip, it is up to you and a shot timer to figure out what variation fits you best. After you learn accuracy basics, you have to shoot enough to learn what Jerry Miculek calls "seeing it". Even Jerry will have an extremely hard time explaining what seeing it means.

At some point you are going to have to do a little thinking and work on your own. You need to ask "why" and think about what you are doing. Perfect practice for one may not be perfect practice for another. We are all a little different. You must put out the effort to find what variation of the basics works best for you. Otherwise you will only progress so far. Think but don't over think. At some point you will have to let your conscious mind let go and just "let it happen". If you put out the effort, one day you will experience being " in the zone". You will not realy be thinking about grip, or trigger control. You will be shooting and you will be hitting every target, it will seem like you are not hurrying, but the timer will say you are very fast. At some point You will realize that you are seeing everything, the targets, your sights, you are feeling the trigger reset, but you aren't really thinking about any of it. It usually won't last very long, but it feels almost magical. Anyone who is really good will know what I am talking about. The great ones are good at staying more often "in the zone". Only rounds downrange and your efforts will get you to a point of having that experience.
 
I can't buy G. Willikers' explanation. I have AT LEAST that much "belly ballast" and I'm not even CLOSE to shooting like that. :D

I don't know whether it's just because I grew up shooting and liking the 1911A1, or if there's a real ergonomic difference, but I don't shoot any Glock like I can shoot a similarly chambered 1911A1. In 9mm, I tend to shoot a P-35 better than even a 9mm 1911A1, but not the Glock. The explanation that I spend a lot more time shooting a 1911A1 than a Glock would SEEM to hold water, but I shoot Glocks more than Brownings, and I shoot better with the Brownings. I haven't thoroughly wrung out my Cz-75 clone yet, but if the 1911A! is not the easiest platform on which to learn the pistol, then I think the Cz-75 platform probably is. The P-35 would probably be a close 2nd.

Shooting like in that vidclip is probably a matter of many hours at the range, many MANY rounds DOWN-range, and some very good guidance in training.
 
JohnSKa said:
It's possible to learn to be a really amazing shooter without professional instruction, but that doesn't mean that it's likely.
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SEKLEM said:
Yep, just like it's possible to become a professional card player or a professional baseball player. I doubt the OP has that perfect storm brewing for him, otherwise he wouldn't be here asking. With proper guidance, training, and persistence it's far more likely than just training and persistence alone.
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OP checking back in. Thanks for all the pointers and advice. I know I need some one-on-one guidance and I intend to get it at some point. Just to be clear, I have no delusions of ever being a "really amazing shooter" or "professional". I have neither the time, money, nor motivation for that. I do want to get well into the "consciously competent" stage if that makes sense. I'm not sure if I'll reach the "unconsciously competent" stage or what the last reply called "in the zone". But I will keep training and persisting towards that.
 
sj9 - If you haven't yet, consider shooting some matches (e.g. IDPA, USPSA, Steel Challenge).

You don't have to be interested in becoming a Top Gun, but there's a whole world of good shooting out there, and there's nothing like a little competition and a good environment to lift your game to the "consciously competent" level. On top of that, keep your eyes open, and you'll likely find there are one or more really good shooters who'd be happy to work with you.
 
Mr Borland gives good advice. As a person who has spent a lot of time both racing cars and shooting. I can tell you beyond doubt that shooters are the friendliest, most helpful competitors you will ever meet. Racers...uh... Not so much. My previous post probably makes clear how hard it is to convey whart you are seeing and feeling in a match. You need to actually do it. Don't worry your not good enough. Go, experience, absorb, and I can almost guarantee you will make some new friends and learn a lot.
 
Yup, my range has a monthly IDPA (I think) match I'd love to get to some time. Also a well respected coach for the one-on-one stuff. Just a matter of finding/making time for it which is really not easy at the moment.
 
As a person who has spent a lot of time both racing cars and shooting. I can tell you beyond doubt that shooters are the friendliest, most helpful competitors you will ever meet. Racers...uh... Not so much.
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This is exactly what I thought when I started shooting competitively. Top shooters would come to you with advice , sometimes even more than you wanted in one sitting. Racers are a more secretive bunch.
 
Each one of us are different, different chromosomes from our parents means that the eyesight, length of limbs, size of hands and even placement of thumb to fingers is different from one person to another.

You will not be able to duplicate exactly the shooting style of the person standing next to you let alone your instructor. It is not physically possible, nature does not work that way. Developing your own style, however is possible, but observation and practice is needed. Taking a class in shooting, may give you some insight into methods that work for others (very few) and I am not sure what is bad habits, except wrapping your trigger finger as far as it will go around the trigger. (that was mine, kept pulling my shots to the left and down). But for some that method worked best for them.

Your physical abilities will determine what works best for you and no amount of instruction on what is the perfect way of doing it will ever help, unless you take that instruction with a grain of salt and pick out what works for you and what does not. Again, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice and more practice.

Back in 1987 I went from a novice archer to a champion archer in one year, but I can tell you it took enough shafts down range to build a house with, 3 nights a week at 5 hours per session 250 arrows per session for 52 weeks.

You practice with your pistol like that and we will see you getting the first place trophy in what ever sport of shooting you take up.

Good luck and keep practicing.
Jim
 
Frank Ettin said:
Nope, it's a matter of skill not the gun.



Folks often fall into the trap of believing that having the right hardware can make up for training and practice. But at the end of the day, there's no good substitute for good training and good practice.



Software transcends hardware.
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You are spot on. I worked hard to get my recoil management to where it is today. Grip and arm position were the keys to recoil management for me. I have shown my 11 year old the same techniques and allowed him to see what works for him. We both shoot IDPA, and he has better control than many of the older shooters.
It is the Indian, not the arrow. Gear only helps when you outrun your stock gear.
 
Gear only helps when you outrun your stock gear.
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I disagree there are a bunch of pistol ammunition combinations that simply would not be as easy to control as the video I posted in #28, reguardless of who shot it.
 
I agree that training is by FAR most important but having shot IPSC more than my fingers will let me count. I can definitely tell you I do much better with "my" race gun / ammo combo than I do with a stock gun and factory ammo
Like was said earlier. There is a reason they shoot race guns.
 
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