Shotgun for home defense
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Dreaming100Straight
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There is always someone with a Mossberg knocking the 870 Express. The fact is that both the Mossberg and the 870 Express are good guns. The only knock on the Express is that cheap ammo sticks in the chamber unless you polish it out with some still wool wrapped around a dowel chucked in a drill when it is out of the box. Some swap the mim exractor out for a machined extractor.
As for the Mossberg, the top tang safety is no good if you want a tactical pistol grip. They are also known to develop problem with the latches so that when loading rounds are dropped. Some hate the for end rattle of the Mossberg but most don't mind it much. That safety is plastic and prone to break. If it does break, you cannot fire the gun. Pretty easily fixed, but fix it if you get a Mossberg. (Not sure but the more expensive military model may have a metal safety).
Ask yourself why most Chinese made copies attempt to clone the 870 and not the Mossberg.
Both are good self defense guns, but I am beginning to believe a handgun is better. Best is a handgun and a shotgun.
As for gauge, I am happy with my 12, but some experts suggest a 20 so that the entire family can control it. For the same reason a semi auto might be a better idea then the pump. (The gas system of a semi auto sucks up a lot of recoil, but be careful. Not all auto loaders are gas operated, while some are recoil operated.) Not sure, but I believe Mas Ayoob recommends a youth size gas operated semi 20 gauge for a family home defense shotgun, but again I believe he prefers the handgun over all. Read this by Ayoob
I shoot 12 gauge shells that I reload to emulate a 20, but that is for target shooting. One benefit is that the weight of the heavy 12 gauge target gun sucks up much of the recoil and that is true of the 20 type load, but I would not want to use reloads for defense.
Choice is also dictated to a great degree by your circumstances; rural or city, single family home or apartment, family across the house from master bed room.
There are a lot of accessories for either the Mossberg or the 870.
Besides the interchangeability or lack thereof of parts between an 870 and a clone, consider barrels. There a lot of barrels for both the Mossberg and the 870, but the 870 barrels usually cannot be fit to a clone without some kind of adapter that is usually made out of pvc pipe or conduit. Also, the barrels that fit a Mossberg 500 aren't going to fit the model with the larger capacity magazine.
I think what I am saying is you are doing the right thing by educating yourself before buying. The best gun and ammunition are the ones tailored for your needs.
As for the Mossberg, the top tang safety is no good if you want a tactical pistol grip. They are also known to develop problem with the latches so that when loading rounds are dropped. Some hate the for end rattle of the Mossberg but most don't mind it much. That safety is plastic and prone to break. If it does break, you cannot fire the gun. Pretty easily fixed, but fix it if you get a Mossberg. (Not sure but the more expensive military model may have a metal safety).
Ask yourself why most Chinese made copies attempt to clone the 870 and not the Mossberg.
Both are good self defense guns, but I am beginning to believe a handgun is better. Best is a handgun and a shotgun.
As for gauge, I am happy with my 12, but some experts suggest a 20 so that the entire family can control it. For the same reason a semi auto might be a better idea then the pump. (The gas system of a semi auto sucks up a lot of recoil, but be careful. Not all auto loaders are gas operated, while some are recoil operated.) Not sure, but I believe Mas Ayoob recommends a youth size gas operated semi 20 gauge for a family home defense shotgun, but again I believe he prefers the handgun over all. Read this by Ayoob
I shoot 12 gauge shells that I reload to emulate a 20, but that is for target shooting. One benefit is that the weight of the heavy 12 gauge target gun sucks up much of the recoil and that is true of the 20 type load, but I would not want to use reloads for defense.
Choice is also dictated to a great degree by your circumstances; rural or city, single family home or apartment, family across the house from master bed room.
There are a lot of accessories for either the Mossberg or the 870.
Besides the interchangeability or lack thereof of parts between an 870 and a clone, consider barrels. There a lot of barrels for both the Mossberg and the 870, but the 870 barrels usually cannot be fit to a clone without some kind of adapter that is usually made out of pvc pipe or conduit. Also, the barrels that fit a Mossberg 500 aren't going to fit the model with the larger capacity magazine.
I think what I am saying is you are doing the right thing by educating yourself before buying. The best gun and ammunition are the ones tailored for your needs.
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born2climb
New member
A friend of mine has a Maverick 88, and I wouldn't have it. We were out in the yard shooting chimney-sweeps one evening and as I pumped it, the little corner of the fore-end where the SINGLE action bar is pinned snapped right off. I ordered him another one and got it fixed. The new one lasted less than a month before snapping. My Mossnberg has a metal collar that the TWIN bars attach to, so there is more than a quarter inch of brittle plastic between an operating pump shotgun and a not-so-well-made club.
Waspinator
New member
I really like the Mossberg 500s/590s.
The controls feel more natural to me for the safety and slide release (I do not use pistol grip type stocks). Really, that was the deciding factor for me. There are plenty of nice and reliable shot guns to be had at all kinds of price points. I try not to argue over which model/brand is "better", because it's all about what you are comfortable with.
Go out and handle as many as you can and manipulate the controls of the different models. Feel the heft of them. shoulder them and sight down the barrel. I think you will find out what works and doesn't work for you real quick.
The controls feel more natural to me for the safety and slide release (I do not use pistol grip type stocks). Really, that was the deciding factor for me. There are plenty of nice and reliable shot guns to be had at all kinds of price points. I try not to argue over which model/brand is "better", because it's all about what you are comfortable with.
Go out and handle as many as you can and manipulate the controls of the different models. Feel the heft of them. shoulder them and sight down the barrel. I think you will find out what works and doesn't work for you real quick.
The newer 870 Express shotguns can choke on high-end ammo too. Ask my friend whose 2012-production 870 Express Tactical seized up completely on Hornady VersaTite, requiring a full diss-assembly of the gun. As such, I cannot recommend a new 870 Express as a defensive shotgun until Remington/Freedom Arms gets their house in order. Fortunately, 870 Police trade-ins can often be found for ~$300.
FYI - I own numerous Remingtons and only one Mossberg, so there is no bias here. I only speak from experience with the last two 870 Expresses I have had experience with. Both had the same problems.
The M590A1 has a metal safety & trigger guard/housing (as well as a heavy barrel and a much-superior open-ended mag tube). They can be had for ~$470 new, which is about $150 more than a 500, but several hundred dollars less than an 870 Police.
Agreed. If you want a pistol grip, you don't want a Mossberg. Now there are some aftermarket oversized safeties out there, but I have no idea if they'll allow you to reach the safety when holding a pistol grip.
My guess is because metallurgy of a steel receiver is simpler than aluminum and labor for milling is cheap in China.
Me too.
.
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12ga defense loads....
For good 12ga shotgun defense loads, Id look at the tactical series from Ranger T/T Series, Remington, Hornady, Speer/CCI.
Author & tactics trainer Massad Ayoob advises the use of #9 shot. Some use the 00 buck but that might be a bit much for recoil, blast, one-handed use, etc.
The LE/SWAT 12ga loads are low recoil, low flash but allow for good ballistics in CQB(close quarters) events.
Clyde
PS; if you want a short barrel, cool shotgun check out a Serbu Super Shorty; www.serbufirearms.com .
For good 12ga shotgun defense loads, Id look at the tactical series from Ranger T/T Series, Remington, Hornady, Speer/CCI.
Author & tactics trainer Massad Ayoob advises the use of #9 shot. Some use the 00 buck but that might be a bit much for recoil, blast, one-handed use, etc.
The LE/SWAT 12ga loads are low recoil, low flash but allow for good ballistics in CQB(close quarters) events.
Clyde
PS; if you want a short barrel, cool shotgun check out a Serbu Super Shorty; www.serbufirearms.com .
Justice06RR
New member
The 2 most common shotguns are the Mossberg500 and Remington870. They are both pump action and are very reliable and easy to use.
I suggest buying one or the other and learning how to use it. Stock up on ammo as well while its cheap.
If you have a big budget, you can look into a semiauto like a Benelli M4
I suggest buying one or the other and learning how to use it. Stock up on ammo as well while its cheap.
If you have a big budget, you can look into a semiauto like a Benelli M4
A good quality pump that you have shot a lot, or a good quality semi-auto that you keep clean and shoot a lot. Most jams on pumps are short strokes, semi-autos jams are usually cleaning or ammo related. I certainly wouldn't hesitate to have a short barreled 20 ga. shotgun for home defense, may not be the big 12, but I certainly wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of a load of 20 gauge buckshot at living room distances. Depending on where you live used shotguns can be pretty in-expensive, around here since there is little to hunt with a shotgun they are easy to find, an older well used 870 express, with the finish worn off and the bluing showing a little rust can be bought pretty cheap. clean it up well, either shorten the barrell or install a new one, and a plain paint on the stock or simply refinish it yourself and you have a very useable, reliable home defense firearm.
Mossberg 500
12 ga. 18.5 in barrel, whatever stock tickles your fancy. Autos are great, but my logic defaults to keep it inexpensive yet reliable. Because if I'm not home and the thief is successful he gets two Mossberg's, one on each side of the bed, easy to find, easy to grab but </= $500 total. But if I am home, and my wife, hearing each weapon chambering a shell should be enough to turn away all but the mentally unstable. Practice and keep your purchases to yourself.
12 ga. 18.5 in barrel, whatever stock tickles your fancy. Autos are great, but my logic defaults to keep it inexpensive yet reliable. Because if I'm not home and the thief is successful he gets two Mossberg's, one on each side of the bed, easy to find, easy to grab but </= $500 total. But if I am home, and my wife, hearing each weapon chambering a shell should be enough to turn away all but the mentally unstable. Practice and keep your purchases to yourself.
I have and like the Benelli m-1 (m-2 barrel & hand guard).
Before you decide to use any gun for HD, you must train with it. I wouldn't use my m-2 in till I shot at least 48 out of 50 skeet, and the same with trap. I still take the m-2 out to the range once a month to shoot a round of skeet and trap.
By the time you can shoot these score, you will know if your choice is reliable, and you will know how to operate it quickly.
The pattern board is your friend. Pattern your gun and ammo at 3 yds., 5 yds., 7 yds., 10 yds. 22 yds. (skeet) and 35 yds. (trap).
Depending on your house, train both strong and weak side.
As far as your budget, ask yourself "How much is your wife & kids worth?"...
Before you decide to use any gun for HD, you must train with it. I wouldn't use my m-2 in till I shot at least 48 out of 50 skeet, and the same with trap. I still take the m-2 out to the range once a month to shoot a round of skeet and trap.
By the time you can shoot these score, you will know if your choice is reliable, and you will know how to operate it quickly.
The pattern board is your friend. Pattern your gun and ammo at 3 yds., 5 yds., 7 yds., 10 yds. 22 yds. (skeet) and 35 yds. (trap).
Depending on your house, train both strong and weak side.
As far as your budget, ask yourself "How much is your wife & kids worth?"...
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Kel-Tec KSG....
I looked over the new Kel Tec KSG 12ga pump shotgun.
It has a lot of impressive features for a defense weapon or security/LE unit but I'm in no rush to get anything that "high-tech" or tactical.
The KSG system reminds me of the Calico 9x19mm & .22LR SMGs of the mid 1980s/early 1990s. These high tech select fire weapons included 50 & 100 round magazines that rotated the ammunition around a circular feeding system.
www.Calicolightweaponsystems.com
A few LE & SWAT operators R&Ded them but the guns never really functioned as engineered.
I looked over the new Kel Tec KSG 12ga pump shotgun.
It has a lot of impressive features for a defense weapon or security/LE unit but I'm in no rush to get anything that "high-tech" or tactical.
The KSG system reminds me of the Calico 9x19mm & .22LR SMGs of the mid 1980s/early 1990s. These high tech select fire weapons included 50 & 100 round magazines that rotated the ammunition around a circular feeding system.
www.Calicolightweaponsystems.com
A few LE & SWAT operators R&Ded them but the guns never really functioned as engineered.
Shotgun HD
Before you commit, take the opportunity to fire 12 ga pump and semiauto's with slugs or buckshot. Then do the same with a 20 ga semiauto. Then make a decision as to whether the recoil of the 12 ga affects your accuracy, second shot capability etc. Then assess whether your wife/girlfriend/older children will also be expected to use the gun for HD.
12 gauges are great and very effective; 20 gauges are just about as effective at HD distances and circumstances, and for most people are less intimidating to shoot. Both deliver significant energy and tissue damage on target.
Before you commit, take the opportunity to fire 12 ga pump and semiauto's with slugs or buckshot. Then do the same with a 20 ga semiauto. Then make a decision as to whether the recoil of the 12 ga affects your accuracy, second shot capability etc. Then assess whether your wife/girlfriend/older children will also be expected to use the gun for HD.
12 gauges are great and very effective; 20 gauges are just about as effective at HD distances and circumstances, and for most people are less intimidating to shoot. Both deliver significant energy and tissue damage on target.
ryanryan03
New member
Maverick 88 home security model for under $200
Bullet Bill
Inactive
Another vote for the Maverick 88. Its a hard to beat value and is very versatile. It uses Mossberg 500 barrels which are considerably cheaper than the Remington barrels in case you wish to also use it for hunting, skeet, ect. My recommendation would be the "Special Purpose" version and not the "Security" version because its shorter and more maneuverable and the barrels are easier to find.
Kel Tec KSG and mini shells
Jehu,
Supposedly Kel Tec KSG is one of the few, if not the only one, repeating shotguns which can reliably fire the 1¾ shells. These shells offer less recoil and noise, both preferable for indoor shooting. And the capacity goes up to 24+1! Not sure if it is something that will interest you, but for some reason I find these shells really intriguing.
Here is info on the shells, if you read reviews there are several from KSG owners:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/16...-1-3-4-4-and-1-buckshot-11-pellets-box-of-20#
Jehu,
Supposedly Kel Tec KSG is one of the few, if not the only one, repeating shotguns which can reliably fire the 1¾ shells. These shells offer less recoil and noise, both preferable for indoor shooting. And the capacity goes up to 24+1! Not sure if it is something that will interest you, but for some reason I find these shells really intriguing.
Here is info on the shells, if you read reviews there are several from KSG owners:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/16...-1-3-4-4-and-1-buckshot-11-pellets-box-of-20#
zincwarrior
New member
Agreed. Historically our SD guns are pistols which we practice with regularly, and I steered away from shotguns for SD purposes as I never knew where you could practice with a short barrel shotgun.
However, I just acquired a field/security combo with the same idea in mind, that I could regularly practice with the field version with clays, and there is a nearby location I found that permits shotgun shooting in its bays.