Shot my new Smith & Wesson Extreme Today
- Thread starter M16
- Start date
Badger Arms
New member
For those that support Smith & Wesson... Would you buy scrap gold from a Nazi Prison Guard? How about accepting money from a Murder Suspect not to testify? Would you pay somebody to NOT beat you up or steal wallet? Are "gun free zones" okay if it's just to protect our children? Do you think you should be forced to wear a helmet in your car? (Don't laugh, motorcyclists know what I'm talkinng about)
It's obvious where you've drawn the line and, just understand here, most of us are way on the other side of your line shaking our heads at you. It's true, it's your right to buy guns from S&W but you're trading your rights for a chunk of metal.
As for those who say Ruger is a sellout... nobody's perfect. I think it's a matter of degrees here. I don't think even the most die-hard 2nd Ammendment fan would argue for the right to keep and bear Hydrogen Bombs. Somewhere between that and Japan, I think we can find a happy medium. Give me my 'Ma Duce' and I'm happy. Heck, maybe an 88 also. Bill Ruger was WRONG... but he's backed down and we haven't heard much from them lately on the issue.
My father disagrees with me also, that doesn't mean I've disowned him. I've drawn my own Libertarian line and you've drawn yours somewhere further to the left. I'll live with mine, you live with yours. Just don't expect me to ever be seen in public with you.
It's obvious where you've drawn the line and, just understand here, most of us are way on the other side of your line shaking our heads at you. It's true, it's your right to buy guns from S&W but you're trading your rights for a chunk of metal.
As for those who say Ruger is a sellout... nobody's perfect. I think it's a matter of degrees here. I don't think even the most die-hard 2nd Ammendment fan would argue for the right to keep and bear Hydrogen Bombs. Somewhere between that and Japan, I think we can find a happy medium. Give me my 'Ma Duce' and I'm happy. Heck, maybe an 88 also. Bill Ruger was WRONG... but he's backed down and we haven't heard much from them lately on the issue.
My father disagrees with me also, that doesn't mean I've disowned him. I've drawn my own Libertarian line and you've drawn yours somewhere further to the left. I'll live with mine, you live with yours. Just don't expect me to ever be seen in public with you.
So Ruger just sold out a little? But that's okay. Ruger's original sellout got the ball rolling for the anti-gun crowd. He's the one that put the blood in the water. By your logic if a bankrobber only stole half the money in the bank you would forgive him because it's only a matter of degree. He didn't steal all the money. If a car thief stole a car from a dealership you could forgive him since he didn't steal all the cars on the lot. It only a matter of degree. Hopefully I have pointed out to you where your logic is flawed.
We have heard from Ruger lately. They build sporting guns not self defense weapons. Would you like to explain to me what the difference is between the two? If someone does a home invasion on you I hope you don't use a Ruger sporting weapon for self defense.
As for not being seen in public with me not to worry. I try to stay clear of hypocrites.
We have heard from Ruger lately. They build sporting guns not self defense weapons. Would you like to explain to me what the difference is between the two? If someone does a home invasion on you I hope you don't use a Ruger sporting weapon for self defense.
As for not being seen in public with me not to worry. I try to stay clear of hypocrites.
Badger Arms
New member
I'm not going to stoop that low by responding.
Gunslinger
Moderator
Anyone who has not read the "agreement" needs to do so. Anyone who has read the agreement and continues to purchase new Smith and Wessons needs to reevaluate their commitment to the RKBA.
And on it goes........
*sigh*
And on it goes........
*sigh*
I don't buy anything.
Oh, except Rugers. And bullets. And some other stuff.
Is it okay that I competed at the S&W Academy this year?
I definitely don't buy Levi's; they don't fit me.
Is it okay to drive foreign cars?
-------------------------------------
"all my boycotting is factory boycotting"
Oh, except Rugers. And bullets. And some other stuff.
Is it okay that I competed at the S&W Academy this year?
I definitely don't buy Levi's; they don't fit me.
Is it okay to drive foreign cars?
-------------------------------------
"all my boycotting is factory boycotting"
No more Levi's for me. I will be added to the FORMER customer list of that company and I am already on that list at Ruger, Sarah Lee, Earth Grains, and AT&T.
As far as a boycott against Ruger goes it would not work for a number of reasons. S&W was chosen for their widely advertised support for the agreement and their vulnerability to a boycott based on the generally much stronger RKBA demographics of their customer base due to their narrow, but deep, market penetration. The internet and BB's like TFL were a major contribution to the effectiveness of the boycott. Due to the effectiveness revenues are down 66% this year at S&W, true that some is due to a drop in overall market conditions, the rest is due to the boycott. Only a company the size of S&W with the backing of a huge corporation has allowed them to survive this long. The major benefit that we have seen thus far was that no other gun manufacturer was willing to sign on after seeing what was happening at S&W. With any luck they will fail this year, I had originally predicted sale, backout, or failure by April 2002, though it may take longer. They cannot operate at this level forever since revenues are down that much, hence the push for the sale of S&W. One thing that has helped them, unfortunately, is the distribution of Walther in the U.S. since the failure of Interarms. Hopefully Walther will soon make other arrangements for distribution or do it themselves which will remove that income from S&W.
As far as a boycott against Ruger goes it would not work for a number of reasons. S&W was chosen for their widely advertised support for the agreement and their vulnerability to a boycott based on the generally much stronger RKBA demographics of their customer base due to their narrow, but deep, market penetration. The internet and BB's like TFL were a major contribution to the effectiveness of the boycott. Due to the effectiveness revenues are down 66% this year at S&W, true that some is due to a drop in overall market conditions, the rest is due to the boycott. Only a company the size of S&W with the backing of a huge corporation has allowed them to survive this long. The major benefit that we have seen thus far was that no other gun manufacturer was willing to sign on after seeing what was happening at S&W. With any luck they will fail this year, I had originally predicted sale, backout, or failure by April 2002, though it may take longer. They cannot operate at this level forever since revenues are down that much, hence the push for the sale of S&W. One thing that has helped them, unfortunately, is the distribution of Walther in the U.S. since the failure of Interarms. Hopefully Walther will soon make other arrangements for distribution or do it themselves which will remove that income from S&W.
Gunslinger
Moderator
Thank you Jeff.
Your entire post was very well put and well stated. But this;
The major benefit that we have seen thus far was that no other gun manufacturer was willing to sign on after seeing what was happening at S&W.
says it all.
Were it not for the boycott chances are right we would now all be laboring under the "agreement" from all manufactures. The implications would, perhaps, be even more far reaching. Perhaps even into the political arena. We, gun owners, demonstrated, for the first time, that we are determined and a power to be given consideration and respect. For the first time we sent a clear message that we will not allow our rights to be usurped at the whim of a company whom we are the very back bone of. Not only did it send a message to Smith it may well have helped to send the message to Washington. It may also have given other gun owners the confidence to fight a little harder once they realized that we, gun owners, really can make a differnce.
Frankly I am proud of those that have not bowed to the desire for a new "toy" in spite of the potential cost to our future freedoms. To those that have not.......well, I shall, for the sake of propriety, remain silent for the purposes of this discussion.
Your entire post was very well put and well stated. But this;
The major benefit that we have seen thus far was that no other gun manufacturer was willing to sign on after seeing what was happening at S&W.
says it all.
Were it not for the boycott chances are right we would now all be laboring under the "agreement" from all manufactures. The implications would, perhaps, be even more far reaching. Perhaps even into the political arena. We, gun owners, demonstrated, for the first time, that we are determined and a power to be given consideration and respect. For the first time we sent a clear message that we will not allow our rights to be usurped at the whim of a company whom we are the very back bone of. Not only did it send a message to Smith it may well have helped to send the message to Washington. It may also have given other gun owners the confidence to fight a little harder once they realized that we, gun owners, really can make a differnce.
Frankly I am proud of those that have not bowed to the desire for a new "toy" in spite of the potential cost to our future freedoms. To those that have not.......well, I shall, for the sake of propriety, remain silent for the purposes of this discussion.
Crap!
You guys tellin me that Levi's AND AT&T are antigun!? I just bought about $200 worth of jeans and stuff from Levi's, and just rejected a long-distance offer because "I'm happy with AT&T." Can someone provide a link that describes their positions officially? I don't always trust people who say they've "heard they're anti-gun." I want a more official statement if possible.
Thanks!
You guys tellin me that Levi's AND AT&T are antigun!? I just bought about $200 worth of jeans and stuff from Levi's, and just rejected a long-distance offer because "I'm happy with AT&T." Can someone provide a link that describes their positions officially? I don't always trust people who say they've "heard they're anti-gun." I want a more official statement if possible.
Thanks!
Badger Arms
New member
Bank of America is the latest anti-gunners on the radar...
There's a recent KABA article on them I think ( http://www.keepandbeararms.com ).
As to S&W, I noticed a brand new S&W-only *magazine* at my local major-chain grocery store yesterday (Safeway). It was as big as the G&A next to it, and as thick...and was about *nothing* but S&W product.
Now, this is in the SF Bay Area. A lot of major grocery stores and the like don't carry ANY gun rags at all, and the ones that do just carry a few standards...G&A, one or two others. So if that S&W mag is sitting there, somebody went to a LOT of effort to put it there. A *lot*.
Can you say "desperate", boys and girls?
Jim
There's a recent KABA article on them I think ( http://www.keepandbeararms.com ).
As to S&W, I noticed a brand new S&W-only *magazine* at my local major-chain grocery store yesterday (Safeway). It was as big as the G&A next to it, and as thick...and was about *nothing* but S&W product.
Now, this is in the SF Bay Area. A lot of major grocery stores and the like don't carry ANY gun rags at all, and the ones that do just carry a few standards...G&A, one or two others. So if that S&W mag is sitting there, somebody went to a LOT of effort to put it there. A *lot*.
Can you say "desperate", boys and girls?
Jim
Nice try...
I've been lightly involved in shooting and RKBA for about...hmmm...seven years now, and deeply involved since about January of '99 when I started final planning for my first lawsuit on CCW (filed 3/15/99).
In all that time, the S&W mag never penetrated into as deeply an anti-gun zone as the San Francisco Bay Area, esp. not a grocery store.
There may have been earlier editions, but the level of "push" demonstrated, with the effort it took to do it, spells desperation to me.
Jim
I've been lightly involved in shooting and RKBA for about...hmmm...seven years now, and deeply involved since about January of '99 when I started final planning for my first lawsuit on CCW (filed 3/15/99).
In all that time, the S&W mag never penetrated into as deeply an anti-gun zone as the San Francisco Bay Area, esp. not a grocery store.
There may have been earlier editions, but the level of "push" demonstrated, with the effort it took to do it, spells desperation to me.
Jim
Gunslinger
Moderator
M16, you may want to go to the Legal and Political Forum here and do a search for Jim March's name.
If everyone here were as dedicated to the RKBA as Jim we probably would not all be in the mess we are.
If everyone here were as dedicated to the RKBA as Jim we probably would not all be in the mess we are.